Avenge Trading Software
At $25,000 for this trading software, it needs to be perfect. Its not. But it has potential. Ownership attempting to remain anonymous, which is a red flag. No trading DOM in trading room. No live trades. However, owners are committed to delivering a quality product, but they are just not there yet.
User Review( votes)
Today’s review is Avenge Trading and Avenge Trading Software
What is Avenge Trading and Avenge Trading Software? Avenge Trading Software is a trading signal software that operates as an indicator add on for the ensign trading platform. Avenge Trading is a day trading room that displays and trades the software that potential customers as well as paying customers may watch and trade along with the room moderator.
How much is the trading software and the trading room? The total cost of the trading software is $25,000. In addition to the cost of the trading software, there is a monthly fee of $2,500 to attend the trading room. Yes, you are reading this correctly, $25,000 for the software as well as $2,500 each month to attend the trading room. However, there is a financing plan where a customer may made a down payment of $7,500 and then 60 days later, in order to keep the software functional the next payment of $7,500 must be made, and then 30 days later another payment of $7,500, and then 30 days later another payment of $7,500 is required.
If a person requires additional training, after the $30,000 in total payments, then additional training comes at a price of $2,500 per month. There is no refund.
If you are like me, then you are pretty flabbergasted at the price of this software and trading room. Of all of the trading rooms that I attended and reviewed, I have never seen a trading product offered at such a high cost. And considering that this product is the highest price of every trading product on the internet, then I figured that I must apply an extra layer of scrutiny to this product.
A Closer Look at Avenge Trading Software
A quick look at Avenge Trading on Archive.Org shows that the company has been around for a short period of time. I can only find several months worth of website updates. It appears that the website was built about one year ago. The Avenge Trading domain name was registered about 16 months ago, and the registration name is not disclosed. In addition to the registration name being hidden, there is also no mention of whom actually owns Avenge Trading on the official website. I found that the lack of disclosure of whom is behind this company particularly odd, especially considering the hefty price tag. I certainly would never give an unnamed person $25,000 and $2,500 each month unless I was absolutely sure of whom this person or people are.
Another thing that I found both exciting and worrisome is that on the front page of the Avenge Trading Website is the proclamation that the trading software had generated a total of 657 total ES points for the year of 2014. In other words, if a person were to trade only one contract, then the total profit would be 657 X $50 for a total profit of $32,850. The company states that if you want to make more, simply trade more contracts for more profits. The statement that I could make more by simply trading more contracts is certainly true, however the big question is what do I have to give up for those additional returns? The website makes no mention of potential draw down or downside. With my curiosity piqued, I picked up the phone and called the telephone number: 888-900-4034. To my surprise, someone actually picked up the phone. A trading vendor that actually picks up the phone is an extreme rarity, I was impressed.
After a brief conversation with the customer rep, Brandon, he invited me to attend the daily webinar that displays all of trades being executed by the trading room moderators.
The Trading Room Experience
From the week of Monday, July 6th through Friday, July 10th I attended each trading room session. The trading room lasted an average of two hours each day. For week number one, I recorded approximately 13 hours of screen recordings. After my free, one week trial of the trading room ended, I then signed up using a another name, IP address, and email address. I then attended another three days of the live trading room. In total, I recorded 20 hours of screen recordings.
What do you see inside of the trading room? Inside of the trading room, a viewer will see a series of charts. The left most chart is a ten minute time frame, and then as you move to the right side of the screen, the resolution begins to drill down to a 317 tick time frame. The following picture is how the trading room is layed out:
Generally speaking, I would say that layout is pretty well organized. I also received some supporting documentation from Melissa, that gave a description for each of the charts. There was also a handy video that took the time to explain what each section means and how they relate to each other. You can watch the video here:
No Trading DOM
Once of the things in the trading room that I found upsetting was that there was never a trading dom shown live on the screen. We were simply told that we had an entry. As the price moved towards the profit target, and then subsequently kissed the limit price, we where then informed that we were now out of the trade with the profit target. If you have spent anytime reading my prior reviews, then you know that I am really a jerk about trading rooms that use limit order entry and exists. Why? Because getting a fill at a limit price for either a buy or a sell is very difficult. Sometimes a price can kiss the limit order price many, many times and never actually fill the price. Newbies of course have no idea what I am talking about, and they mistakenly believe that they can replicate the orders that they are seeing on the screen, but the real world reality is something entirely different.
As I spent my 10 days in the trading room, I found that trades on the 10 minute chart were slower moving and a person stood a very good chance of replication. However, the 5 min, the 3 min, and the tick charts were faster moving trades. I would guesstimate that on the 5 min and the 3 min, a trader has about a 50/50 chance at exact replication of what the software is displaying. The tick chart? Not a chance. The market moved way too fast and these trades have nearly zero chance of replication. The following short video are several trades on shorter time frames. Watch these videos and ask yourself if you feel that these trades are presented in such a manner where replication is a possibility?
Why Does Replication Matter?
Replication matters because when we make a purchase of trading software or a trading room, part of our decision process is evaluating prior results and effective replication. And I am not talking hypothetical, or simulated results, I am talking about about being able to replicate somewhere close to the signals that are being projected onto the screen, by the software or the moderator. Granted, it would be unrealistic to expect that we would be able to copy all trades exactly, but for a price of $25k, we need to be damn sure that we stand a hell of a good chance of replicating the majority of the trades.
The moderator was never able to show, with a live trading DOM present, that he was able to actually fill any of these limit orders. I was frustrated by this. The more I attended the trading room, the more frustrated I became because I simply could not replicate the signals on my own trading software.
Calling Avenge Trading About The Reported Results
After becoming frustrated with not being able to replicate the trades, I decided that if a live moderator could replicate the trades with a real money account, then perhaps with practice I could also replicate the trades. And so I called the toll free number once again and asked Brandon if he could send me over the real time performance of the trading moderators in the trading room. Brandon was cordial and emailed me the following PDF documents that give a detailed performance of each trade called live in the room. He sent me the following, which supposedly represents all of the trades for the entire year of 2014, as well February 2015 until present:Avenge-Performance-2014
If you took a quick look at this, you were probably a bit confused by all of the numbers and little boxes. I certainly was. And so I called back and spoke with Brandon, but before I continued with my conversation, I asked Brandon is he had any problem with me recording our conversations with him or any company representatives regarding Avenge Trading. He agreed to allow me to record all conversations related to his company. Since our conversation was taking place over state lines, I needed singular consent in order to record any conversation. A telephone call has a reasonable expectation of privacy, before I can record any conversation, I needed to make sure that a company representative would consent. Brandon consented, and so I continued with my line of questioning. My first, and most important question was related to the numbers reported in the spreadsheet. Specifically, I wanted to know if these were real time trades, executed in an actual brokerage statement, Brandon confirmed that every single trade was a live trade. Next, I asked him if he could please send me a copy of the brokerage statements, I wanted to match the brokerage statements to the trades reported in spreadsheet. Brandon said that I needed to speak with the trading room moderators and that they may or may not release this information.
Brandon then recommend that I have a conversation with the trading room moderators. I agreed. And I told Brandon that since I was spending $25,000 for his trading product, that I needed to be extra careful and verify every detail. He agreed. Before I ended the phone call, I asked Brandon for his last name. He refused.
Speaking With The Room Moderator
Next I received a phone call from Brandon and he commenced a three way conversation with the trading room moderator. He said that his name was Darren and that he was an attorney. I asked him for his last name, he refused to give his last name. I found this a very uncomfortable situation, he wants me to give him $25,000 and $2,500 each month, and yet he will not even give me his last name. It was awkward. Thankfully, Brandon had consented to the recording of the conversation, and I was able to capture the awkward moment in all its splendor and weirdness.
Next, I asked Darren if the trades from the spreadsheet were actual trades taken in a real account. He confirmed that all of the trades were real. After about 15 minutes of conversation and awkward question asking on my part, I decided to turn up the heat and see if I could get Darren the Lawyer to admit that the trades were not actually executed with a real money account. Begrudgingly he relented and said that the trades were a combination of both real and simulated. I felt getting him to admit the truth took a herculean effort.
After I got Darren the lawyer to admit that the spreadsheets were not actually real trading, I next attempted to figure out whom actually owned this company. Everything is well hidden. Nobody at the organization will use a last name, the domain name registration is hidden, all of my questions regarding ownership were rebuffed. The conversation was a clumsy and indelicate dance of Darren the Lawyer trying to convince me his company was for real, and me trying to press him into admitting the truth as well as catch him in a lie. He wanting my $25k, and we wanting to watch him stumble and get caught in a lie. Since I had consent to record the conversation, I felt like I had to really open up the throttle on the poor guy and start calling him bad names. Not so much because I felt he was a bad guy, but because I wanted to see his reaction.
At the end of my 20+ minute, heated conversation with Darren the Lawyer, I walked away feeling like he wasn’t such a bad guy. Anyone else would of simply hung up on me. I called him a scoundrel, scammer, and bunch of other fun words, but he just kept trying to convince me that his software is the real deal. In my opinion, he really believes his software is a good product. But Darren is certainly no market professional, or computer geek.
Plenty Of Red Flags
Looking at these guys in its entirety, and from a distance, there are several red flags:
- They wont reveal whom they are.
- They wont display a trading DOM in real time.
- There are no account statements that prove performance.
- There is no information on whom developed these trading indicators.
- The trades in the trading room were not clearly given.
- The scalp trades cannot be replicated in real time market conditions.
A Few White Flags
They also have a few positives:
- Excellent customer support, they answer the phone and quickly respond to email inquiry.
- The signals from the longer time frames were reliable.
- Lawyer Darren, in spite of my badgering and hateful remarks kept calm and tried his best to help me.
- The company is very, very serious about marketing. Which is a good thing.
At the end of the day, at $25k…the product needs to be completely devoid of any red flags. This is the most expensive trading product I have ever seen. And the higher cost demands a higher level of scrutiny. Is Avenge Trading a scam? I dont think so. In fact, I think they might have something positive to offer. However, they need to prove it not only to the audience, but also to themselves. They need to either trade with a live money account, or at the very least trade with a simulated DOM present on the screen. My personal opinion, is that the tick scalping and the 3 minute charts will need to be removed from their program. They are simply unrealistic. However, the 10 minute and the 5 minute do have some potential.
Avenge Trading is currently spending a great deal of money on marketing. And I want to give them credit for this. They made the investment in two separate one hour radio shows, that are scripted sales presentations for sure, but the investment shows commitment to their product. They also spent a great deal of money on a Michael Medved radio infomercial, which I am sure cost big bucks to produce. In addition to these radio infomercials, they have also produced some well constructed sales videos. A little cheesy, but shows good effort.
In addition to the radio and video production, I checked Google ads inventory and they are probably spending $500 each day in Google ads. Not a small sum of money. Some of you reading this might be suspicious of all of the advertising, professional production, and slick marketing. However, I see this as a positive. They honestly feel like their trading product is ready for prime time, they feel like they have a product that can withstand serious scrutiny and that the risk of advertising costs will be borne out through the gains in sales. Its interesting for sure.
For What Its Worth
My opinion is not worth much, however if I were running the Avenge Trading Software company, I would start investing in more transparency. Who in the heck is going to give you $25k if you wont even give your last name? And why not just go ahead and trade with a DOM on the screen? This is 2015, not 2005 when trading rooms could get away with that nonsense. Nowadays, all of the legit vendors are all trading with a DOM on the screen. And if you are trading with a simulator, just admit it. And if you are going to start emailing out performance reports, then stop saying that the trades are real, when they are not real. Not even close to being real.
I have a sneaking suspicion that I am going to be hearing from these Avenge guys again. And with the level of investment they are making, I do believe that they could deliver a good product. It is my sincere hope that I can come back in a few months and write a new review, a highly positive review that recommends the product.
Well, that’s if for today. Yet another room that didn’t get a bunch of shiny gold stars. If you read this far, then you are a champ and I certainly appreciate your vigor and enthusiasm in what is mostly a depressing endeavor. Don’t forget to leave your comments below. Especially the haters, and the trolls, I like you guys the most.