The Federal Trade Commission or FTC has filed a several hundred-page complaint alleging a massive $137 million fraud against Raging Bull, LLC., Jason Bond, Jeff Bishop, and Kyle Dennis in Federal Court, District of Maryland.
The complaint was filed today, on December 8, 2020, and is several hundred pages long.
As readers are aware, TradingSchools.Org has been involved in several legal entanglements with Jason Bond and Jeff Bishop over several articles that we have published over the past several years.
We have fought vigorously and spent quite a bit of money in legal fee’s to protect our reviews — with each review alleging investment educational fraud relating to stocks and options trading.
Our reviews were published in the following order:
- Trust Pilot: the Mecca of FRAUDULENT trading reviews
- Is Petra Picks a SCAM?
- Jason Bond Picks
- Jason Bond Picks: Millionaire Roadmap? Or Pathway to Financial Disaster?
Additionally, TradingSchools.Org embedded complaint forms within several of the articles which were then forwarded to the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, and the Federal Trade Commission.
In total, TradingSchools.Org processed approximately 60 credible complaints that included affidavits which were also shared with various members of Congress – both Senate and House.
Three of the individuals listed in the Federal Trade Commission complaint are persons that TradingSchools.Org interviewed personally — before they were forwarded to the FTC.
Additionally, TradingSchools.Org provided key evidence used by the FTC in their complaint regarding Jason Bond and his phony Harvard University representation.
At this point, I cannot write a full and complete article regarding the FTC lawsuit. However, multiple parties have asked that I post the lawsuit publicly so that readers pick through the allegations.
The following documents are as follows:
Document A: This is the complaint filed by the FTC which gives a brief description of the allegations.
Document B: This is a temporary restraining order where the FTC is freezing the company assets of Raging Bull, LLC and the personal assets of Jason Bond, Jeff Bishop, and Kyle Dennis. According to the FTC, they are taking all of the assets but will leave each of the defendants with $25k in which to pay their bills and support their families.
Document C: Raging Bull and all of the assets seized from Bond, Bishop, and Dennis will be placed into receivership pending the outcome of the trial. The assets will presumably be held to repay the victims of this fraud.
Document D: These are the exhibits and victim impact statements that the FTC has attached as part of their complaint.
Once again, TradingSchools.Org will be publishing a full and complete article on our interactions with various enforcement bodies regarding our involvement in the investigation.
Also, I will be publishing an article on the various lawsuits that Raging Bull filed against various parties, including their own students alleging defamation of character. In particular, we will be writing about the lawsuit against David Jaffee, where he was sued by Raging Bull and Ross Cameron of Warrior Trading within several days of each other.
As many readers are also aware, Ross Cameron of Warrior Trading began at Raging Bull, before starting Warrior Trading. Readers will find the connection interesting.
Once again, check back for these articles. But for now, you can read the complaint in their entirety.
This is a demo advert, you can use simple text, HTML image or any Ad Service JavaScript code. If you're inserting HTML or JS code make sure editor is switched to "Text" mode.
I am a RagingBull subscriber and found out Jason Bond has been lying about profits after I did some digging. He claims he made over 500,000 one month but fails to mention most of it was from an angel investment but stated it was based off of trading. bunch of liars and when I called to get a refund they offered me credits instead same lies
Lol the FTC and Emmett should be ashamed of themselves. Basically they temporarily crippled one of the fastest growing companies in the US, dragged their names through the dirt, cost hundreds of employees jobs, SPENT MILLIONS IN TAX PAYER MONEY and the outcome? The new (court approved ads) are the same except they are being made to say ‘at no cost’ instead of ‘free’. Wowzer!
Not to mention the tens of thousands of customers that lost access to subscriptions etc. Many were happy with their purchases and they lost them. More harm than good imo.
You really are trying. Posting here under different names (RDB, MyBoo, JasonCheese, DaveRogue). And always careful to put in a different email address so posts can’t be traced back to the same source. But similar style gives you away. Lots of LOLs, capitals, self-absorbed statements on a high about a big come-back and how Raging Bull is here to stay . . .
We got you. You are desperate to paint Raging Bull as just another honest company minding its own business, paying its bills, throwing parties for the employees – the usual stuff. Just another “fast growing company”. If IBM or Amazon are left alone, why are Raging Bull prosecuted? Injustice indeed. IBM and Amazon actually have to do some work for the money they earn. Their customers get what they paid for. They do not get sold web of lies and non-existent fast-evaporating nothingness.
Now before you give me crap about the difference between selling physical goods and “intellectual property” don’t you worry. I know all about selling intellectual property. Which is why I am going into business myself. I and Stray’s great-grandaunt (the one married to an Independent Court Monitor) intend to fill the gap in the market left behind after Raging Bull demise. We will be called Raging Bulldog. First we have to get ourselves some internet personas. We will borrow Jewel (Emmett’s French bulldog) to be our mascot. I hope Emmett will not be obstructive as I have already invested in dog biscuits. Cheaper than hiring a plane. We’ll get a Santa hat for Jewel – Christmas is near, it all builds up the mood and people like it. The grandaunt will be our moderator. We’ll get her to wear a judge’s wig. She is a true British patriot who stayed in UK after the rest of the family moved to Australia. Ask Stray if you don’t believe me. It is a great rags to riches story – puts Jason Bond to shame. She turned her little pension pot of £ 20 000 into a million in only three months, trading from her kitchen in her little village of Scratchy Bottom in Dorset, UK. She will be the face of the company. I will be responsible for the business plan. Speaking of which . . . I might even take a leaf out of the book of my great trading mentor Melissa Armo (of The Stock Swoosh) and get myself some leather and a whip. But that’s a subject for another day. Would you agree that this is a great business model for selling intellectual property?
lol “one of the fastest growing” traducation FRAUDS in the U.S.! hundreds of desperate held-hostage employees. Well, guess what, the minwage of many fastfood and service jobs now pay probably more than your slavewage positions with “training” to refund deny , obfuscate and prey on hapless aspiring retail trading victims. I know of someone who was fooled by your earlier defunct “picks” sites, JB, back in 2012 and your fake trading and losing newsletter sub calls. The gall to keep coming back for so long to do this “American Greed” worthy shamshow, trying to get away with it for long no matter the damage to victim strangers’ personal finances with your scam. Hope the actual CNBC show does an éxpose episode on you sham guys someday.
Ragingbull webinar on now. Apparently they had a MASSIVE blowout party to celebrate the win in the case in Balitmore last week. I saw an employee below mention that they had. The BULL IS BACK BABY!
YouTube Ads with Jason Bond are back on. Doesn’t seem like they are being ‘taken down’ really to me. The ad I just watched was pretty funny – he was like ‘Yes it’s me Jason Bond and I’m BACK!’. Either way, it looks like they are doing just fine with ad budget back up and running….I suspect they didn’t really do anything wrong? I mean it looks like its going to be business as usual. I suspect the confusion on here with people thinking that RagingBull is ‘going down’ with this whole FTC thing is due to comparing RB to other organizations that Moore has targeted. For example, the Online Trading Academy case is quite different from the one against RB. The outcome thus far has been quite different as well, and I suspect we will see close monitoring of the advertising (from the affiliate monitors) and then that will be it. I don’t see anything indicating that they will be destroyed by huge fines etc. At the end of the day, it looks to me like they were a tad aggressive in their marketing and the treatment they have received from the Government has been unfair imo. It kind of looks like the FTC just goes after wealthy fast growing companies in the financial niche.
I hope you feel better now you said it. But it won’t make much difference to how anyone perceives Raging Bull or to the facts of the case.
You lose. Not guilty! Haters goina hate!
It’s a civil case, you dope.
NG is a potential criminal outcome, based on a determination of guilt “beyond reasonable doubt”. Not ALL doubt, but that’s about 100:0 (more or less).
Civil cases determine civil liability based on the far lesser burden of proof of “preponderance of the evidence”. That’s 51:49.
The finder of fact, at a bench trial: the judge, has to determine if the preponderance of the evidence indicates that RB and JBx2 “more likely than not” intended to defraud customers by misrepresenting facts.
Based on his previous rulings (and the fact that he’s all but put them into the monitor’s gimp box), I’d say the chances of a finding of liability are better than 53:47.
But who knows.
lol I love how you call ME a dope. Ummmm you misunderstood me….when I wrote ‘Not guilty’ I didn’t mean that the judge had brought down his hammer and shouted that. It wasn’t a legal definition! I ment that, in my opinion, they are not guilty. Spaz.
Talking of “guilty” and — worse — “innocent” in a civil law context is like someone congratulating Michael Jordan on scoring so many “goals”. Only something a complete dope would do…
Never underestimate how lazy and disinterested a Federal judge can be. Sometimes it really surprises me.
Finally these 3 idiots were taken out of business of scamming the world
They are still operating. I am an employee there. They are trying to trick the receiver. Can someone please let the receiver know to dig deeper and get on the company calls, unannounced? They will see right through what they are trying to do. Everything they are doing is to just keep the receiver at bay. Then they will go back to their old ways.
No they weren’t taken out…..I just saw a YouTube ad by Jason Bond….
I am a victim of the RagingBull Scam. Lost $5000 and they declined to refund me.
They deserve to be in prison.
omg omg omg CRIMINAL CHARGES just announced!!!!
Provide a link to the source please.
Please provide a link to the source of information.
I suspected the US Attorney was contemplating fraud charges. But no announcements that I can find.
Haven’t seen anything, either, but I’m sure Jason would be allowed to post bond….
Lol! “Jason allowed to post Bond.”
lol just joking about the charges but i made u losers cream your panties LOL in reality they are making millions selling products again!
That was hilarious. “I suspected the US Attorney was contemplating fraud charges” Yes, Emmett, of course you suspected it all along lol
Ah, another dimwit. What happen Mike? Couldn’t work out what the rest of the words in Emmett’s comment were? Here let me help you, “But no announcements that I can find.” which means that he suspected or thought that maybe, and we know “thinking” is something that you shills have great difficulty with, but finding no confirmation it remained a thought not a fact. Once again, not jumping to conclusions unless there is verified proof.
The common characteristic of the Raging Steer shills who post here is their lack of intelligence. You read enough of them, and it becomes obvious why they are so easily scammed. Sweetypie, did you read where I asked for your source of information? Does my post or anyone’s post that answered yours, read like anyone jumped for joy or believed you without verified evidence? Of course, we get it, you don’t require verified evidence before you believe something which is why you are gullible and fall for con jobs like Ragging Steer. Please make me eat my words and post your verified Ragging Steer trades that show that you are being successful.
What u talking about? I’m not even a ‘Ragging Steer’ customer…..I just find the blind haters of these types of services funny. Admit it – you jizzed your panties a little when you saw ‘criminal charges’ right? I’m sure (as you are so smart and not easily fooled lol) you were skeptical but a small part of you jumped for joy.
I did jizz my panties just a little bit. You had me. Congrats.
But the time I really jizzed my panties was with the RB TRO hearing wear these knuckleheads marched into Federal Court with hundreds of student “testimonials” and their students’ brokerage statements “proving” that Raging Bull students were “gettin’ rich.” It got laughed out of court as the judge took one look at the brokerage statements of Jason and Jeff and just laughed at their rediculous argument.
The death rattle of every trading educational company is when the owners must rely upon their very own students to save their butts. Same thing happened with Online Trading Academy…they had thousands of students write these massive glowing testimonials proclaiming that the Online Trading Academy trading system was better than melted butter. That didn’t work either.
Look, I am always willing to work with Jason and Jeff in the future…but they need at least a year of proven performance. Anything less and Jason can go back to teaching gym at the elementary school, and Jeff can go back to selling used cars.
Blind haters! Dimwit is too generous a characterization for you sweetypie. Read all of the evidence provided at the beginning of this review. To be a blind hater someone would have to do so without any justification. There is plenty of factual evidence to justify hating the business practices of Ragging Steer. Stop now before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.
Cream or no cream: Far more interesting is why you as “not even a customer” instinctively side with conmen, thieves and liars.
Is that because you, too, are a conman, thief, and/or liar?
Or are you a copywriter for a certain cluster of scam-based businesses 15 miles south of Hunt Valley?
(Thinking about it, that’s really the same, isn’t it. Silly me!)
RB is dead and buried. The fight is over. Newer targets are plenty juicy and ripe for plucking.
Example: Prosper Trading Academy, out of Chicago…
Oh wow, these guys are some of the worst, if not the worst that I have EVER seen. Prior to Prosper Trading Academy, they were running a scam called Trading Advantage. After that got exposed, they rebranded as Prosper Trading Academy. The lawyers that represent them are former FTC so it’s going to be difficult to deliver a killing blow.
I would estimate they are selling $10 million monthly volume. Their ad spend is enormous. Just their office rent in downtown Chicago is probably $50k monthly, and it’s packed with full-time employees. This is a big, big organization. Would absolutely love to blow that fucker up.
Let’s see what happens…
Am always curious how you pick or decide because the internet is teaming with so many investment criminals.
HeyNormLA,
That’s a good question. Indeed, there are so many scammers on the internet that it’s hard to narrow down. But I have two primary methods…
1) The contact form located at
collects information that dumps into a database. I have thousands of companies where people have requested a review. Once a name is flagged as a minimum number, then I take a closer look and start sending anonymous emails at step one in the investigation. I never let anyone know whom I am investigating because if a company knows that I am lurking, they usually start scrubbing their website and/or become very careful what they write in emails and videos. After an initial secret investigation, I have usually collected enough information to move to phase 2. The next phase is to reach out directly to the vendor and be very open and candid about who I am, what I am looking for, etc. Hardly anyone EVER talks to me during phase 2 because my questions are very direct, like “do you actually trade with a live account?” Most of these characters do not.
Phase 2 means that I already have “the goods” and so when I finally reveal that I have been investigating, it is primarily to entrap them with their own words and statements. This technique is how the FBI conducts its criminal investigations. They first get everything they need and you have no idea they are investigating. Next, they show up very friendly with a business card and say, “Hello friend, we just want to ask you a few questions.” Since they already know the answers to the questions, they allow the criminal to lie to the agent. The lie is what gets them indicted.
2) The second way I decide whom should be investigated comes directly from the people I have written positive reviews about. The people that received a positive review have the most to lose by their competitors lying to the public about their supposed investment returns. If you get a positive review from me, this is because I have verified the performance used in the marketing materials. And so, the honest folks are quite loud about calling out the scam artists and WANT me to write about their scam artist competitors.
Anyone with a verified track record knows that earning even a positive return on investment is a difficult proposition — let alone 20%, 30%, or 40%! The best and most bright people in finance have a hard time outperforming the SP500, each and every year. The people that I write positively about need my help telling the public the truth that it’s not so easy. If we are going to change the “investment education” industry from one fraught with scams and thieves, then we need to start establishing some minimal standards of conduct. Like one year of actual verifiable investment performance. This should be the bare-bones minimum. And I don’t even care about % returns, or size of returns, I just want a positive return on one single share of stock! That is how ridiculously low the bar is set. A fucking ant should be able to hop over this.
Unfortunately, good and athletic ants are hard to find.
Another thing that drives me crazy? Why isn’t there a self-regulatory body for this industry? And yes, let’s call it an industry. It’s a multi-billion dollar per year industry. Investment education is massive and growing every year. Yet, there are no minimal standards whatsoever. A plumber must demonstrate he can clear a turd from a toilet bowl in order to call himself a plumber. A lawyer must prove he can write a brief so that he/she can eventually overbill and scam his clients. So why not some minimal standards for our industry? Like a simple test that shows you know the difference between a call and a put, a front month, a futures contract, the difference between a limit and a stop order, etc.
My ultimate goal is to establish something similar to the NFA, NASD, or even FINRA. All of these organizations are private, self-funded organizations with a tiny thread that connects to the SEC and CFTC through a reporting mechanism. They self-regulate and report to Big Brother government, but at their heart they are just trade associations that set minimum standards. Thus far, my dream has been met with so much pain and disappointment. The status quo will never change unless you kick in their front door at 3 AM and beat them over the head ham-fisted. Nothing good comes easy. But everything bad and evil in this world is found with such convenience.
Enough rants for today.
lol he picks the ones where he can get the biggest whistleblower rewards imo and that their advertising has enough holes in it for him and his lawyer wife to attack.
Or the ones that sue him for defamation lol
You mean like Michael Salerno at Black Diamond FX? https://www.whistleblower.gov/notices/2020-022
Now as far as Raging Bull, I have no whistleblower award due on that because FTC enforcement does not have a built-in whistleblower program. I took down Raging Bull for free. Because they were assholes. And they mistakenly believed that their army of high-priced lawyers could protect them, that their millions of dollars could protect them and they could out-litigate me, they mistakenly believed that I could not find and exploit their weaknesses to full effect.
Biggest whistleblower awards? What about the smaller whistleblower awards?
Bam…
https://www.whistleblower.gov/notices/2021-009
omgosh, the “shamrock” green jacket crew formerly of Larry Levin’s (now gone from the world)Trading Advantage shamshow. At the end, Trading Advantage was also selling trading advantage logo’d baseball caps, and “trading computer” desktop systems! Talk about propping up the dead carcass of Levin’s shamshow legacy, now to sounding even greater heights of trading course selling scammery.
Looks like they made off big with the post-GME hype of those 20 million more new aspiring retail traders. (That RB was desperately trying to get back into business in time for looting the new newbie lambs, but glad they are defunct effectively now) Yeah, those are the same faces we saw years ago on Levin’s page, the “Moon” guy I remember the name, maybe the old site can be seen if one goes back and looks at the old archive.org captures. Not many shamshows are as stool retaining as Scameron in covering up every scam exposing gap, but I see that Prosper has also flooded “Trustpilot” with hundreds of their shilled , copywriter actored “testimonials”.
I was hoping Marcello Arambide of Day Trading Academy (with the ties to DayTradeToWin in the U.S.) would be exposed by tradingschools someday, but Prosper Trading seems to be the priority as they seem to be a major new shamshow looting the newbies of middle-aged gen’xrs and post-teens of wsb & gme hype. And the wealthier Brazilians probably saw the clown article and news about their country’s broker reports of 99.9% of attempting futures daytrading not even making a profit so maybe not made so much a fuss about trading scam “academies”.
Lol your comment above is premeditated business interference planning……
LOL. Has FB been handing out JD’s again?
Incorrect in all cases. I’m not even sure where the Hunt Valley is but it sounds like an exciting place!
Right now, Hunt Valley is more like Valley of Tears, as the remaining RB staff try to squeeze money out of their remaining subscribers without getting nailed by the Monitors…
lol it’s actually thriving with tons of great new gurus teaching daily at RB. They seem to be generating significant cash flow not ‘squeezing’ but gaining millions and millions of dollars from existing subscribers – they must like the services DESPITE the hiccup this year. Imagine that….I know right I mean how is that possible…..aren’t they just scammers lol
Nice response. Though I am not sure how being dragged into Federal Court, having your assets seized and placed into receivership, and being called a $175 million dollar fraud is a “minor hiccup.”
But hey, if you say so…
Regardless, I wish Jeff and Jason the best of luck. Hopefully, they learned a lesson from all of this.
Baltimore maryland
You have to admit: It sounded plausible and in character given the fraudulent mugs involved….
I hope it’s true and happening now. RB needs to be shut down as an example like OTA. baby boomers & gen-x need to be able to tell their millennial kids that they were scammed and damaged their savings by the likes of legacy OTA during the dot-com bust and latter financial crisis, and then RB during the inflated markets & covid crisis , and explain that these snakeoil pits got away with it with their shilled narrative during too much of past web decades until tradingschools and FTC action exposed the truth.
I feel to repost this: Kyle Denis was one of the worst in RagingBull. I subscribed to his Dollar Ace service, and it didn’t take me long to realize that he had designed this service to pump & dump his picks. He used to buy and sell his picks before alerting them, and of course very seldom I could get his entry and exit point prices. But the most infuriating thing was that he bragged in his sell alerts about how much profit he had made, although I was sitting at a loss. The other gurus at RagingBull were not only okay with this, but proudly were applauding in their promotions how successful Kyle Dennis was on his trading, and how many million dollars profits he had made so far this year…
Brutal reply. Absolutely brutal. Thanks for leaving this message.
Thanks for confirming the chicanery of KyleDennis. He was like a poster trader of “success” for Raging Bull. I wouldn’t be surprised if he got the idea of pump-and-dumping chatroom bagholding followers from Ross Scameron’s example.
I disagree….I really enjoyed listening to him and his picks made me $$$
Warrior Trading being subjected to an FTC investigation now – i’m guessing another Moore Special?
Excellent news. If it results in honest business practices and a realistic expectation about what you can expect from trading then that will be a win for the customers and the industry.
Finally, great news. I hope it all gets opened up and the shenanigans exposed with a plethora of documented testimony similar to the ragingbull investigation. That clown has gotten away with it so slickly for too long.
interestingly they haven’t ambushed Ross the same way they did ragingbull. They seem to be politely reaching out lol any idea why so different?
They probably haven’t finished their undercover operations yet. Also Ross has proven to be far more clever and careful in hiding his stink than Bond and RB being so jackass confident in what they could get away with in their prior yt inyourface ads.
How do you know that WT is under FTC investigation? Can you share a link please?
Apparently he sent out an email about it.
Correct, Ross Cameron is now under FTC investigation.
At this point, I don’t want to write too much about it. But a blog post will be coming out shortly, and I will be talking about what I do know, and what I did.
Let’s just say that Ross Cameron is not very happy with Emmett Moore and TradingSchools.Org. I have a long memory and my thirst for revenge is not easily sated.
The same guy is posting about how you are wrong Emmett LOL paid shill for sure!
Real-time alerts returning very soon to RagingBull but with added education and the gurus will enter AFTER the alert is sent. Thanks Emmet you are actually helping them improve even further above their competition and changing the industry for the better.
That’s awesome to read.
1) They can never be accused of front running the customers.
2) There will be a track record.
The problem with this industry is that honest companies have to compete with dishonest companies. The honest companies have verifiable track records and do not front-run, while the dishonest ones use shady hypotheticals and front-run– the dynamic is that the hypothetical traders gobble up all the market share by creating unrealistic expectations for consumers. Honest companies cannot survive because they cannot sell their product.
This is why it’s vitally important that Raging Bull survives and thrives with fair rules.
If Raging Bull can do this, then I will oblige by continuing to attack their shady competitors.
I can’t agree it’s “important” RB survives. I want them to go under and get erased like OTA. Bond had done multiple defunct sites and prevaticating shamshows years before raging bull. They were fraudulent in every way they could and are only complying or pretending to now to get past all these injunctions by the FTC. Like the first honest thing they could have done was trade for themselves for self-funding and pay their supposed desperate minions and scummy car salespeople , but of course they can’t even trade their way out of paper bag to pay rent.
I whole heartedly agree dtchurn… they need to be wiped out of existence. I am not sure why Emmett seems to love these SOB’s so much. NO second chances NO redemption just total Annihilation.
yes, and the thing is. Bond already had multiple defunct sites such as “jasonbondpicks” prior to RB to the beginning of the past decade, where even Ross Scameron was a room mod at one point earlier learning the craft of fooling newbs. (Ross got archive.org to erase the old traces of warriortrading including the architect lies, but he couldn’t erase Bond’s old site showing him as a mod without the beard and fake glasses, back when supposedly he was an ‘architect’, lol: (http://web.archive.org/web/20140201134856/http://www.jasonbondpicks.com/meet-the-traders/) )
Just that Jeff Bishop seemed to acquire and patron Bond’s snakeoil business to become RB. Bishop should go back to renting out private jets or whatever he was doing before, and Bond should go back to being a P.E. teacher before he plastered his annoying teeth grinding grin-face on his jasonbondpicks earlier sites.
On a side note on a past smaller shamshow exposed by tradingschools, (but he was still big enough to be shilled heavily on Sykes’ Investimonials as we recall, and probably did a lot of damage to newbs also) Emmett also recently commented that Kavan Klein had come “clean” and admitted it was all scammy nonsense he was doing with his traducation chicanery and is now trying to get “back” into real estate and legit business. (of course he couldn’t really hack it as a trader for a living as these vendor fakes all claim, but decent enough to get back into something legit if not trading)
( http://www.tradingschools.org/review-team/#comment-6068447 )
How absurd. Trading to get out of this wouldn’t be the answer. At best these guys claim to make 10% a month – hardly enough to pay dozens of people etc any time soon.
pathetic made up shithead reaction, probably from the gollumpeety-dtchum cave. RB claimed so much profits in millions that they supposedly could do anytime. Instead they likely told their staff to be refund-deniers for their salaries.
High-lighting as a special break-thru that RB will track their reco’s after it is made to the customer is actually indicative just how dirty the were before:
That’s been standard practice for the (formerly) reputable part of the industry since at least since print publications/newsletters of the 1990’s.
So true.
Maybe I am being way too naive about RB. But I remain hopeful…that’s always been my biggest weakness. To hope that the goodness of mankind is inexorable.
I finally heard back from these idiots. They offered a refund of almost nothing. No idea what I should do next. I wonder what the FTC would make of their “classes”, demos, chat rooms, and other stuff being filled with paid actors and/or bots to make it seem like they had a few thousand people when I’m guessing it was really just a few hundred at best.
oh did those bots also buy millions of dollars worth of products at the end of the webinars as well? I’m pretty sure they did have thousands in those product launch webinars etc. also i’m sure FTC knows everything they did or did not do by now.
You didn’t notice how obvious it was? I have no idea what anyone did or did not buy outside of myself but the use of bots was blatantly obvious.
I think in order for them to make $100MM last year then the majority of people attending the sales webinars must have been real. Even then they will have had to have a very high conversion rate (which they did it seems!).
Did they make 100MM? Good, they they can afford to refund my freaking money.
I agree and they should. My point is there is a lot of false accusations and narrative surrounding them – like the one you are talking about all bots etc. That is just one of the falsehoods being spread.
RagingBull given the go ahead by the judge to start Phase 2 – advertising and bringing on new customers again. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18719211/253/federal-trade-commission-v-ragingbullcom-llc/
All outbound advertising has to be approved by the new in-house compliance counsel AND the monitor. An absolute nightmare for any direct response marketer!
Let’s see how much money they can bring in without lying and misrepresentation.
This is going to be really, really interesting to see how they navigate this. Thus far, I have yet to find any company able to survive and thrive with these sorts of constraints.
Every single ad piece needs to be groomed by the flea comb of compliance counsel. This means they have to pay an attorney to read, redline, request redraft, reread, redline, request redraft, over and over again. The cost of putting out even the most harmless ad copy is going to be in the thousands.
It’s just crazy. But hey, at least they are trying! So they do deserve some credit.
All the while…in the background are all the other scam artists without these restraints and so being competitive is going to be very difficult.
On a positive note, their recent blog articles have been quite good. The Williams article on Zero Commission Trading at Robinhood is actually a very good article.
Interesting. Thousands is peanuts though given the ROI on their ad campaigns and no not all of the original ads were deemed non-compliant with FTC guidelines…..so imo they will thrive again.
I agree that thousands or even millions are peanuts to a company awash in fraudulently gained cash. How else could one explain that a lowly SEO guy can charge a million bucks on his company credit card (on top of legitimate expenses) and steal $4+ million over the course of 4 years — without anyone noticing. (Not RB but a direct competitor 15 miles south.)
But those days are over, now that the pesky refund obligation has been reinstated by the court. That used to be a cumulative killer that year-over-year could turn a million dollar profit into a $300k loss.
Whatever they pay for in-house legal and monitor is negligible in the regular course of a scammer’s business. It’s the elimination of all the deceitful concepts, the selective use of testimonials, and the cheating of buyers by neglecting to tell them the “free” course they just paid $4.95 s/h for on their credit for also locked them into a nonrefundable $1k trading service subscription that auto renews, but they turned of the auto-renew button.
And as the Tina.org complaint to the FTC against Agora shows, scammers can’t exist without lies. Even when tied into the knots of a stipulated order, they will continue to do the only thing they’re good at: Lying.
RB can’t exist as an exorbitantly profitable business with the Feds up their ass.
What $4.95 ‘free course?’ I must have missed that…..RagingBull did that? I still don’t understand this auto-renew accusation – ive been a subscriber on and off for 5 years. Cancelling etc. was never a problem.
Another look at RB’s future:
I have frequently referenced FTC v. Agora Financial et al. as what I consider the “best”-case outcome for RB. (Conceptually, RB is like the slow-witted, bastard offspring of Agora-style marketing and misrepresentation, with a number of (former) employees having had long histories w/in The Agora Companies or, as they now have started to call themselves, Monument & Cathedral Holdings, LLC.)
The FTC managed to tie the entire holding company, kit and caboodle, with each of the 80 subsidiaries it has jurisdiction over, into a stipulated order in which they agreed to stop making fraudulent claims, pretty much making themselves the FTC’s bitch for the next 20 years. Before and after that order, most of the Baltimore-based subsidiaries have been shedding staff like your least favorite maths teacher shed dandruff back in high school, down 40-50+% year-over-year.
But the watchers are still watching: TINA.org apparently has just filed another complaint with the FTC, alleging that numerous subsidiaries bound by the order have violated it literally hundreds of times even since February. And not only the named defendants, but additional, more prominently acting companies:
This is exactly what RB can expect. Settling and agreeing to stipulated terms now is the least expensive outcome of the ongoing litigation. But once they do, the pressure will remain on, beating any spark of fun, joy, and money out of the system.
Almost makes you want to feel sorry for them.
Just almost.
i wish this damn shithole would just shut down for good already
Looks like the FTC’s Amended Complaint has considerably expanded its focus on Kyle Dennis.
Interestingly, the relief requested now is less harsh and restrictive than the “Bull is back!” state of affairs under the Monitor. The longer RB fights this, the more money they flush down the crapper, with no upside at all.
My prediction: RB settles w/ the FTC out of court before December and accept an FTC v. Agora Financial-style stipulated order that pretty much embeds the FTC up their rear ends for the next 20 years.
interestingly they still don’t give any evidence that Kyle isn’t a profitable trader telling the truth about his trading and story, right ?
“Profitability” is not at issue. False representations are.
Yes, but for years people like Emmett have screamed that Kyle Dennis is lying and not really a profitable trader…..that he is making up his track record etc. It seems like that has been defamation….for example that idiot from RagingBull Scam website (Sydney Budina) has said that about Dennis for a year or two. Clearly just bitter defamation and the investigation is showing that he is actually a profitable trader etc.Could Dennis sue for these false allegations ?
There is a post somewhere in all of these comments that details the proof that shows that the Ragging Steer traders where not profitable. I assume that Dennis was included in that. In any case he would have to prove that his trading record was what he claimed which is unlikely considering how much they exaggerated their trading success.
The FTC hasn’t mentioned Kyle’s track record anywhere its all focused on how difficult it is to replicate for subs – Bishop and Bond have had everything broken down in great detail but Kyle’s trading results are totally ignored. I’m 100% sure the FTC will have done the same scrutiny on him and would have paraded it around in a similar way they are doing with the JB’s. Not a peep from then in any of the documents indicating that he made up his track record or was faking trades etc.
Defamation is a stretch. Dennis would have to prove that Emmit, Sydney and others were negligent in their claims, ie, that contrary proof was readily made available. As far as I can tell, Kyle hasn’t posted account statements that would prove the statements made by counter-parties to be false.
True. But then if I accused someone all over the internet of being a crook and a child rapist despite having no evidence and ruining their reputation…..does that work the same? I mean the victim in that case couldn’t prove that they weren’t those things either!
Certainly no proof online would be readily available. Given that those mentioned above were actively engaged in ‘taking RB down’ they could be considered to be acting with malicious intent.
When did I ever pick on “Liddle Kyle?” If anything, Kyle was the prostitute that got pimped out by Jeff and Jason. Kyle made a few bucks, no arguments there. But Raging Bull latched onto his track record and marketed that track record as the track record of everyone.
Poor liddle Kyle had to work the street corner wearing high heels and a mini-skirt emblazoned with the Raging Bull logo across the buttocks.
Doesn’t anyone remember when poor liddle Kyle supposedly won the new Porsche in a “trading contest” and it turned out to be a leased car?
But then my question is WHY didn’t you ever attack Kyle? Surely, his story is just as outrageous sounding as the rest of the people you go after? On the face of it he would seem like the prime target of your ‘reviews’. Is it perhaps because there was nothing to be gained (e.g. money) from Kyle because he wasn’t the owner of the company?
Shouldn’t you have been warning everyone about how much of a fraud Kyle must be? After all his claims sound more outrageous than Bond’s or even Bishops. He doesn’t offer proof and says he turned $15k into Millions so why not write about that? It’s suspicious imo that you chose to ignore him but attack all the OWNERS of other businesses that were making way less outrageous sounding claims.
every time I got ahold of someone for refund it has been like the movie the money pit “two weeks”. As for the monitor I have not even got a response. That’s who is supposed to help me. Why are we having to request it? It’s a time thing who had the extra time to add courses on my account that I didn’t even ask for or want or is that some kind of a cool trick to say that I got equipment service for you guys don’t pay me I feel this is unacceptable
Raging Bullshit we should even have to ask the factors of the untruth and outright bogus claims is enough to out of the invalidate any kind of agreement as far as a refund policy nothing was set up ahead of time in case I thought about getting refund some bullshit about instant Knowledge from Analytics what a little weasel Tell Dennis I want my $1,499 back from the dollar Ace Program that wasn’t worth Jack Squad Bullseye trades with decent but I guess if you throw enough darts even a blind man hits a bullseye just do the right thing and issue a refund and stop being difficult can the Judge say You’re supposed to give us a refund a pretty sure I saw that in there I felt like I got screwed over ever since I signed up for and I regretted it right away that’s not how it once you feel when dealing with someone in business unless you’re just don’t give a fuck about anybody but your own pocketbook I guess it’s cool I’m getting sick of this shit man it’s going in circles here you’re going to pay or not if not just let it be known your Thief okay cool whatever I won’t ask for nothing if I’m told I can get a refund and have to do all this weird shit dude just do what’s right
I’m in the same boat. All I want is my refund. I can’t get a decent response from anyone. Seriously thinking of just e-mailing them and the monitors every day until they address this.
Finally!
Hey there!
Thank you for reaching out.
I hope you are having a fantastic day – and I appreciate your inquiry.
Your renewal has been turned off.
This means at the end of your activation period, you will not be renewed and therefore effectively cancelled.
If you’d like more detail on RagingBull reopening and answers to FAQs, please see our welcome back page here: https://ragingbull.com/welcome-back/
Thank you for your patience in this matter and I hope you have a great day!