The Federal Trade Commission or FTC has filed a several hundred-page complaint alleging a massive $137 million fraud against Raging Bull, LLC., Jason Bond, Jeff Bishop, and Kyle Dennis in Federal Court, District of Maryland.
The complaint was filed today, on December 8, 2020, and is several hundred pages long.
As readers are aware, TradingSchools.Org has been involved in several legal entanglements with Jason Bond and Jeff Bishop over several articles that we have published over the past several years.
We have fought vigorously and spent quite a bit of money in legal fee’s to protect our reviews — with each review alleging investment educational fraud relating to stocks and options trading.
Our reviews were published in the following order:
- Trust Pilot: the Mecca of FRAUDULENT trading reviews
- Is Petra Picks a SCAM?
- Jason Bond Picks
- Jason Bond Picks: Millionaire Roadmap? Or Pathway to Financial Disaster?
Additionally, TradingSchools.Org embedded complaint forms within several of the articles which were then forwarded to the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, and the Federal Trade Commission.
In total, TradingSchools.Org processed approximately 60 credible complaints that included affidavits which were also shared with various members of Congress – both Senate and House.
Three of the individuals listed in the Federal Trade Commission complaint are persons that TradingSchools.Org interviewed personally — before they were forwarded to the FTC.
Additionally, TradingSchools.Org provided key evidence used by the FTC in their complaint regarding Jason Bond and his phony Harvard University representation.
At this point, I cannot write a full and complete article regarding the FTC lawsuit. However, multiple parties have asked that I post the lawsuit publicly so that readers pick through the allegations.
The following documents are as follows:
Document A: This is the complaint filed by the FTC which gives a brief description of the allegations.
Document B: This is a temporary restraining order where the FTC is freezing the company assets of Raging Bull, LLC and the personal assets of Jason Bond, Jeff Bishop, and Kyle Dennis. According to the FTC, they are taking all of the assets but will leave each of the defendants with $25k in which to pay their bills and support their families.
Document C: Raging Bull and all of the assets seized from Bond, Bishop, and Dennis will be placed into receivership pending the outcome of the trial. The assets will presumably be held to repay the victims of this fraud.
Document D: These are the exhibits and victim impact statements that the FTC has attached as part of their complaint.
Once again, TradingSchools.Org will be publishing a full and complete article on our interactions with various enforcement bodies regarding our involvement in the investigation.
Also, I will be publishing an article on the various lawsuits that Raging Bull filed against various parties, including their own students alleging defamation of character. In particular, we will be writing about the lawsuit against David Jaffee, where he was sued by Raging Bull and Ross Cameron of Warrior Trading within several days of each other.
As many readers are also aware, Ross Cameron of Warrior Trading began at Raging Bull, before starting Warrior Trading. Readers will find the connection interesting.
Once again, check back for these articles. But for now, you can read the complaint in their entirety.
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The court-appointed Independent Monitor has set up a page w/ all pertinent information for those customers seeking a refund etc.:
Kyle Dennis fights back! https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.487710/gov.uscourts.mdd.487710.225.1.pdf go get them Kyle!!!
lol RagingBull fighting back hard as well seeking restitution and legal expenses from the FTC etc. This will be hilarious if they win then go after Moore et al for damages as well as the FTC for being wrongfully injured. I really think they have a good chance as well and it seems like the legal game is being stepped up now they have their funds back.
LOL.
Indeed, that would be hilarious. I hope they do. This would be a publicity windfall for me. As PT Barnum once said, “There is no such thing as bad publicity.”
I will gladly admit to everything. Yes, I did it. I saved the world from having to watch yet another video of Bond and Bishop in a private jet. Or Bishop touting that he is a MENSA genius. Or Bond claiming he was invited to speak at Harvard. Yes, your Honor, I did this. I am trapped and now must face the judgment of my peers.
To which the judge replies, “Mr. Moore, all humanity would like to thank you for your hard work and relieving society of having to watch yet more of those horrible videos.”
I got robbed and duped! I paid over $4k for Jason picks and about the same for Kyle Dennis! I need my money back.
lol how did you manage to pay that for those?! The price was $299 a quarter……
I worked there too. I won’t say anything positive or negative but wanted to share a bit of information you might be interested in as this is the only online forum where I found RB being discussed. On March 26th JB announced the reopening to employees and told us we’d be getting our pay (that we were owed before the asset freeze) in roughly 10 days. It’s now April 16th and no more updates from them at all, no pay. Just radio silence.
Definitely keep updating on this development. Interesting to see how this pans out. I know that you guys really suffered and probably had the worst Christmas ever.
Hopefully, I don’t get too much of the blame.
lol yup you pretty much ran over everyone on this vendetta – subscribers and staff. Thanks asshole!
The only assholes in this saga are the Ragging Steer gurus. If they had run an honest business Emmett’s information wouldn’t have gotten any traction with the FTC.
I disagree – the FTC is notorious for this type of behavior but only when big money is involved. If you have ever known anyone that was prosecuted unfairly by the government (any branch) you would know that its all corrupt and driven by politics and money. Innocent doesn’t come into it. Moore knows…..he knew to spoon feed them because they are also lazy.
I even ehard the judge told them that he was angry at the FTC for ‘playing games’.
BS! If there was no case to be brought against Ragging Steer because there was no evidence the FTC would not have pursued it. The Ragging Steer gurus engaged in fraudulent business practices and they brought this upon themselves.
Not true. When the FTC was told by Moore et al. that they were ‘frauds’ etc. they based a case on the fact that they were pretending to be profitable traders. However, the accounting was skewed to show Jason was a ‘net losing’ trader. Not true as the Bates report showed. Kyle Dennis is a massively profitable trader as well – notice the FTC has gone quiet about that? He was audited and the story is 100% TRUE! The case is falling apart fast from what I’ve seen. There are most likely a bunch of minor infractions in advertising but nothing substantial. The lies told by the FTC lawyers is astounding and shocking to say the least.
The case hasn’t even started yet. And the FTC is holding all cards.
The FTC had to get involved. RB was getting away with too much fraudulent balony and also denying and hooking sunk-cost victims with their denial of refunds scheme. Even poor Petra couldn’t handle the damage to the victims anymore. And RB had already used their ill-gotten gains to pretty much flood and bribe out any compromised review site out there such as ripofff, trustpilot and investimonials. Too many regular trading forums and sites had long been compromised often with broker or scam sponsors. It was getting too outrageous. If the FTC wasn’t going to stop this, who would? tradingschools is a blessing to overall retail trading, as it goes after the plentiful scams 99.99% of this shamshow “industry” and the discussion exposes many of their tricks to awareness of the readership. And Emmett has footed the bill and the personal inconeniences from over 15 lawsuits funded by victim duped money, and the personal danger and inconveience of hired thugs and stalkers by the unbalanced and criminal shams. It isn’t corrupt or political at all about this case. It’s just plain consumer advocacy that should have been done a long time ago. But shills or liar employees like you wanted this to go on no matter the damages and churn to newbs, and thought you could get away with this indefinitely.
email me at gillianwolls@protonmail.com so I can prove I am a RB subscriber not a shill or employee. I can also show you my success with the services. Weirdly, I have been asking all you haters this and not one has emailed me yet. Guess you people just like to cling to your hatred, biases and spout off BS online.
Gillian we believe that you are a subscriber. I certainly do. What would be the point of emailing me your dashboard? You can post it here. I believe you can show proof. You must be a subscriber – you have shown clearly that you are angry about losing an income which was “spoonfed” to you by these pennystock alerts. I believe it to be true in your case. You sound well educated, well off, not desperate or greedy out of misery. You sound like you trade stocks yourself anyway, use a stock scanner etc. You know what you are doing and how to protect yourself from losing. This was probably just a niche for you and you are knowledgeable enough to know how to do it. But many are not. Do the simple math. These are penny stocks – they have no value behind them. Other than a short-time inflated value from pump buying till it all crashes back down. Someone has to be on the receiving end of it. If it was your granny your would not be happy. You DID sell them immediately did you not? There will always be someone at the end of the queue with no one to sell to. You agreed on the point of over the top advertising by RB. Now if someone does this at home on their own – good luck to them. But to alert thousands of people at the same time – someone will pay for others.
I have no pleasure in seeing anyone – especially a woman – having to fight against so many people here. Thank you for sharing your email. But what would be the point?
Thanks and I appreciate your intelligent responses. I guess you are right 🙂 there is no point. I should probably go back to focusing on more important things than arguing with people on here. It’s like politics – no one is going to be convinced by the other sides arguments or evidence.
yes please keep us updated – my guess it that its a real pain in the butt getting banks opened again etc?
… and what kind of pain in the butt it will be to sign on w/ a credit card processing and email management company. The last cc vendor had already chucked them half-way out the door for excessive refund requests…
Can anyone give me an update on RagingBull. It looks as if they are able to continue business. As a member I have not heard anything from them.
Hey baldy Moore, have you paid back the $965MM you scammed from your victims?
lots of really interesting information in that video!
uglybaldymoore, lol, your handle is like a playground taunt that an elementary school kid would say. @uglybaldymopore have you read the Warning page on this site? Here it is for your convenience:
lol that looks like a true sociopath bragging about what he did…..
And then there’s this …
Pull the other one. Please. Anyone who needs help from Dr Dean Handley with all his reputation of a medical fraud and straight from his luxury 2-bed shack is truly desperate. You are not doing yourself any favours.
@uglybaldmoore Let’s not forget these two gems about your boy Dr. Dean Handley Haha haha
and the classic kitchen video
Hey, Dean put out a great hit piece video on me. Congrats to Dean. I can take one on the chin.
FYI, I sort of like Dean Handley. Really, I do. We always attack each other. It’s all good fun.
But I think if you measure who has taken more shots…I would say that I have bloodied Dean more than he has bloodied me. But again, getting bloodied doesn’t really bother me much.
So, you want to explain his points rather just saying its a hit piece? I mean watching that it is very hard to believe you are NOT doing what he shows you are! He is very scientific about his analysis and presents evidence while you just scream ‘scam!’ and then write negative reviews.
To be completely honest…I have not watched Dean’s videos in a few years, so I am unfamiliar.
But I will say this about Dean, he went to the dark side. He traded what was good and pure about his reviews into something ugly and commercial. He lost sight of the original mission, which was to sacrifice his own interests to those of the community. To sacrifice himself for the good of the community.
For all practical purposes, his business is dead. And its not because of me, or our rivalry, or anything I did to him. Its dead because at some point, Dean Handley took the offramp to easy money. He became jaded and lost his vigor to hunt. He wanted comfort. He became tired of the struggle. He became sloppy in his work. He surrendered.
Dean is a true disappointment to me. But I still love him.
This is a common dodge I am seeing on this page, not just from you but from others like ‘StrayDog’ and ‘BoonDoggle’ even ‘Nadina’. It’s always ignore the evidence against you or your case then claim that the person presenting is ‘a fraud’ and just attack them instead of actually clearly defending your actions or offering any kind of explanation. Very common for lawyers lol.
All evidence against Emmet is on this website provided by him very self in detail. When Handley does that let us know.
What dodge? I shared the link where Emmett detailed his past. I then shared links that demonstrate the Dean Handley isn’t someone you can trust. On the other hand Emmett provided evidence to the FTC which they found credible so they pursued a case against Ragging Steer. The people who are ignoring evidence and dodging are the Ragging Steer shills.
Handley is ” very scientific in his analysis”? If you think Dean Handley is in any way “scientific”, please test it. Fork out a few hundred dollars “consultation” fee for half an hour Skype conversation with him supposed to “advise” you on trading and trading rooms. You will see “science” in action. I was stupid enough to do it in 2015. When you have done it come back and tell us all about it and how much “science” you got for your money. Otherwise don’t brag about what you don’t know. The man is a fraud personified. He never apologized just keeps re-inventing himself as fraud in different areas. He is currently in trading.
Nadina is proof positive of what happens to people that listen to Dean Handley.
Yes to my shame. This was 6 years ago. I’ve developed a tiny bit of common sense since then.
how about you check all the customer complaints on the BBB website claiming they have been defrauded sometimes over $10K by RagingBull and asking for full refunds! These thieves need to get locked up! https://www.bbb.org/us/nh/lee/profile/investment-advisory-services/raging-bull-llc-0051-92047360/complaints
Handley jdphdmsblah who still can’t trade his way out of his kitchen scam, only tried to be more scrutinizing and “scientific” after Emmett’s tradingschools started to get more traction. His “grand tetons” since the early 10’s to 2017 or so were all reported shamshows by the poor dupes who listened to Handley. Myself included with one of his ‘titans’ back in 2014. (Fortunately I had long since back made the couple of k’s I’d wasted in the bogus educational package and the fake trading room from my own trading). A pathetic yt channel trying to compete with tradingschools, yet still comproised with promoting Amico’s trading bot scam, and also his wife’s trading site and room since.
Does anyone hear any more rumors about when service will return or refunds will be issued? A vague timeline perhaps?
No refunds unless it was in your original purchase agreement. Then maybe.
Refunds will be issued by the Independent Monitor. The court did order refunds issued to those requesting one where the offer included a term pertaining to refunds. But the Independent Monitor (2 former attorney generals) have discretion in handling refund requests — and Bond & Bishop had to cough up $10mil to cover requests. IMHO, chances are that the IM applies common sense and refunds your subscription fee. (I’d write off the $$ you lost on stock recos…)
In my personal opinion, with the FTC suit AND the pending class action suit. RB’d be complete idiots to deny anyone a refund.
The Independent Monitor will, at some point, provide the necessary contact information.
The fact that RB hasn’t bothered to resume editorial service in the 2 weeks after the receivership was terminated would indicate to me that they have realized that there is absolutely no financial upside to continuing a business that will NEVEREVEREVER recuperate from the reputational damage inflicted on them by their own conduct and policies…
lol not what I heard…..I wouldn’t count on that. They are dotting their I’s and crossing their t’s before making announcements. Trust me they have big things planned – there is no keeping these guys down no matter how hard people try :).
So they are dotting i’s and crossing t’s are they? Would that be dotting i’s and crossing t’s in “indefensibility?”
They had since Dec. 8 to do that. There is really no impediment to resuming editorial if they wanted to. Of course, editorial is an afterthought in this kind of business.I say it again: There is no financial upside left in RB.
Well that explains it. I have of course been checking Raging Bull website every day as I am desperate to spent some money. Usual rubbish still there (everyone is MENSA 500 and been trading for 50 years) but no links work when you want to pay . . . how disappointing. I will keep trying . . .
Hi I’m a ragingbull employee and an active participant in a company Slack channel where all updates are posted. There was a company-wide zoom call where the details of the reopening were discussed and I can confirm that RB will be reopening within the next month beginning with resuming content to existing paid subscribers first and then restarting the sales emails after that.
Awesome!! Which services will be immediately continued?
Nearly all of the major gurus are back on board with revised versions of their previous services; Jeff, Jason, Kyle, Jeff W. The only ones who won’t be back to my knowledge are Nate and JC. As RB is under a microscope right now, I don’t want to make advertisey type posts on here and get us in trouble again, but know that RB is absolutely returning and paid subs are the main focus for them right now.
OMG, Jeff Bishop should not be allowed anywhere near a live trading account. How in the heck is he going to be offering any sort of advisory when he cannot trade himself out of a wet paper bag?
And did you read the terms of the Judge? Man, they cannot make any promises or exaggerations whatsoever. How in the heck is this supposed to even work? This whole business is based on convincing really dumb people that they will be flying in private jets within a few months. I don’t see it working. But who knows. Jeff is a marketing genius, for sure, but this might even be too big a river to swim over. Even for that crazy bastard.
Whatever happens, it’s going to be fun to write about.
I think you are wrong about why they are successful. I bought many subscriptions not based on thinking i’d be ‘flying in private jets within months’. I’ve been trading for a decade or so and found a lot of value in their services. Sure, the aggressive marketing helped them grow but got out of control imo. Amazing value from some of the services though. I think you’l find they continue to thrive so you might want to start planning your next attack!
There is not a “next attack” planned. The war is over. There are no more battles to wage. All are now part of the past.
However, going forward, they will be put under an “honesty” microscope. So this is actually an opportunity. This is a great and grand opportunity for Jeff and Jason to create something positive and honest from the ashes of their fraudulent fiasco.
Just imagine for a moment that Jeff and Jason reemerge with a commitment to full transparency? Suppose they start reporting actual profits and losses? Suppose the next “mentors” are all vetted and are actually great traders with track records and are fully transparent? Doesn’t this change everything?
And so, there must always be a path to redemption. There must always be a way towards the light. Nobody is condemned to a lifetime of punishment for past deeds. Everyone should have a path forward, towards the light.
I am a prime example. Look at me! A former prisoner and convicted criminal that committed deeds every bit as bad (or perhaps worse) than Jeff and Jason. Yet, I changed my path and headed in a different direction. Although the path to the light is always hard for me, to always remain honest and truthful, yet it is still a path that my fellow friends and enemies alike can agree is much different than my prior path.
Couldn’t agree more. A suggestion for Raging Bull – how about:
1. giving refunds to all that are currently disgruntled to get a clean slate
2. getting someone legitimate on your staff – someone like Mike Ballafiore perhaps? I never saw his statements but there is little doubt that SMB is a legitimate prop trading desk and he is a real trader. Which is why I cannot imagine Mr Bella bellowing: “I will make you 1000 ticks a day”. This is a dumb suggestion – I don’t suppose a serious trader like him would ever consider being a part of any internet trading room. But you get my point – someone real, vetted outside google overnight celebrity machine. Someone who was a trader long before Raging Bull came into existance and this is certified. Someone who would teach it like it is. Let’s get some reality and respectability into the business so the whole bloody thing is not a by-word for sleeze. Downside: you will not be able to charge what you used to. Those were prices for dreams that do not come true.
Like Emmett said this is an opportunity. We wait.
I’m not really enthused about Raging Bull reopening. While I agree with Nadina on her first point about RB cleaning up sending refunds to all former clients who requested but were denied or outright scammed from RB’s lying terms of service, I think the perps should be done with selling trading education since none of them can trade their way out of a wet paper bag either. Bond should go back to public teaching or whatever crap toothy smiley presentations he can do at fake Harvard room restaurants. Bishop should just get out the scamducation entirely, maybe get involved with private jet or luxury rentals. At least Emmett gave us this retail industry changing service of tradingschools and didn’t even mock up a fake trading education sales site or another stocktwits like financial blog guessing on stocks for the month. I can’t believe so many potential newbs are going to continue to be snookered, with millions more new retailers interested in trading this year after the GME fiasco. (That’s what these shamshows are really salivating about now, scamming and churning all these potential newbs the next following years.) And sad that at the same time, the SEC are also letting CFD’s effectively continue via offshore and simulation trading schemes to persist. imo, RB (and OTA and all those other longtime worst shams, incl. marcello’s DTA) deserved to be shut down completely and anyone involved permanently barred from selling any sort of financial services again.
lol ‘every bit as bad (or perhaps worse)’ !?? Are you kidding me? You literally stole nearly a billion dollars from people while Jeff and Jason just went a bit over the top with advertising!
Also, be prepared for the Emmett fan club on here to label you as a scammer and evil for working for them!
There are more than 600 comments on this topic so maybe I missed those comments Derek. Please tell me where they are.
Great to know, much appreciated. So by the end of April maybe?
Is there any compensation for 5 months of downtime?
They have said hopefully within a couple of weeks, yes. The reason editorial hasn’t resumed yet is because they’re being very careful to make sure everything will be compliant and all copy will have to go through the independent monitor, plus they’re working on their new product plans. They didn’t mention (to me at least) a specific type of compensation for subscribers who lost service during these few months, but knowing them I would assume they have something planned. As an employee I felt that they always went above and beyond to give compensation where it was due, and they have expressed extreme gratitude for all of their customers, so I am certain that subscribers will be treated well. I do know that the paying subscribers are the #1 priority right now so when stuff begins getting pushed out, you guys will be getting the content you paid for before anyone else gets any kind of free newsletter or sales email.
It’s certainly an interesting development. Am curious whether they can actually pull this off with the two court-appointed monitors. Sort of like throwing a huge keg party where you know that strippers are going to show up, but the whole party is being thrown in the Church parking lot. Its going to be really odd and feel very strange…to say the least.
Most of the ads and copy etc were probably already compliant so not really much of a change…..
I would like to know how to go about getting a refund. I have several services with RB and have had no emails at all since last year. that is just wrong.
Do you happen to know how to go about getting a refund?
Keep an eye on the RagingBull.com site. 3 weeks after the end of receivership, they are still claiming that they haven’t staffed up to handle customer service requests. When they re-open, have your information handy and contact them at the number or channel the Independent Monitor will provide, probably via the site and/or via an email to the customer base.
Th court ordered all FTC complainants whose affidavits support the complaint to be refunded first. Customers who bought pursuant to an offer that included a refund provision and who are now asking for one will also be refunded. (So pull together your information, including the original email or promo you responded to, credit card statement etc.)
For those whose offer did not include an express refund provision or explicitly denied a refund, the Independent Monitor has some discretion to issue one.
IMHO, the unilateral discontinuation of any service for 6 months would constitute a breach of contract; I’d argue any lifetime offer sent out after Dec. 7 — I hear there was at least one — was made in bad faith, and any prior lifetime offer now is compromised by the greatly reduced reasonable life expectancy of a service or even the company.
(I’d also argue that a lifetime offer for services headed by now departed gurus would constitute a novation in terms for which new consideration — a refund — must be given.)
At a minimum, you will be able to opt out of any automatic renewal.
(The above, of course, does not constitute legal advice but merely my informed opinion.)
Also file your claim with the FTC, so you can be considered for any later restitution. If you go to FTC.gov and search for RagingBull you’ll find all information. The original complaint is linked to their PR section, you can find the business email addresses of the principal FTC attorneys at the end of the complaint. I’d just send it directly to them, and watch your tax dollars work for you.
Also worth reading this regarding the Receiver working as a stooge for the FTC and not as a neutral party. They were being paid nearly $1MM by the FTC and you guys want to talk about shills!? https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.487710/gov.uscourts.mdd.487710.196.0.pdf
That’s disgraceful. Ragging Steer should be footing the bill for the Receiver.
RB is paying, both for the Receiver and for the Monitors.
That’s nothing: Did you notice the line about tens of millions of dollars being pocketed by Bishop & Bond in “unearned distributions”? That RB was losing money as a business despite “unprecedented growth” because Bond & Bishop were draining it of cash?
Whats wrong with that? I think we are probably both going to dwell on the parts that suit our particular beliefs. You will focus on the ‘omg they are criminals’ and I will focus on the ‘they have been persecuted by the FTC and a small bunch of nut jobs like Moore and yourself’.
Here is an excerpt from the court documents I am curious about….’The FTC told the Court that Defendants “prey” on the elderly and immigrants.The FTC provided no support – the FTC simply said it and expects the Court to take it as gospel. This was false, as Raging Bull has demonstrated. Dkt. 123, at 9, 18. The FTC then pivoted by trying to minimize their baseless claim, saying it was only “one line from the FTC’s complaint.” Again, not true. This false statement was in fact the second sentence in the FTC’s Motion for TRO ( Dkt. 2-1 at 1 (“Defendants prey on consumers, including older individuals…”)) and it was Case 1:20-cv-03538-GLR Document 196 Filed 03/10/21 Page 6 of 62 featured prominently in the FTC’s self-serving, intentionally headline-grabbing press releases and case summaries to the public.’ But RagingBull showed that in a rebuttal that this was NOT the case. Easy to show as record of their website analytics and marketing campaigns were not set to target these demographics. So can they sue the FTC for lying? The lawyers already showed these statements were false, misleading etc. So isn’t the FTC doing what they are accusing RB of? This is just ONE of hundreds of false and misleading statements by the FTC!
Interestingly they seem to ‘parrot’ Moore a lot and provide no evidence hence the TRO was lifted and RB will likely prevail.
Do you understand how language works ShillyMcShill? Claiming that it was only one line does not denote that it has to be line number 1. That it was actually in the second sentence doesn’t mean that their claim was false. To your second point, “Defendants prey on consumers, including older including older individuals…” the older individuals here are a subset of the main group, consumers. That sentence does not say that they prey predominantly on the elderly or immigrants, just that they are part of the group of consumers upon whom Ragging Steer prey upon.
lol so if there was a single one legged guy that signed up for RagingBull, should we say they preyed on people with one leg? Stop trying to explain the gaping holes in the case because of your cognitive bias. Fact is the court sided with them and after spending hours reading both sides – I agree this lawsuit is a farce. You can disagree if you want of course :). Or maybe we say they were racist because there were people of color as members? I bet you are a democrat.
You are not the brightest bulb in the pack are you ShillyMcShill. The court sided with them! What are you smoking? Read Boondoggle’s posts. The FTC is so far up their ass they’ll be brushing Ragging Steer’s teeth in the morning.
Thats fine…..i’ve no problem with them being held to high standards of compliance. They should have had a team in place that did that BEFORE they got into issues. Having enemies like you guys they should have anticipated this reporting etc.
All I need is my subscriptions money back. How can I get this back. Should I hire a lawyer?
Pull all your information together, including the promo that you responded to. Wait until RB reopens, then submit your refund request to the independent compliance monitor that has been embedded in RB by the court.
If they don’t issue you a refund, send your claim to the FTC, so it can be added to the loooong roll of names of unhappy customers in view of settlement.
I’d also file a complaint with the BBB. Looks like companies who ran into trouble with the law now fall all over themselves to respond and issue refunds to public complaints.
I am hearing on the grapevine that RagingBull is planning a complete return of almost all of their existing services. The only guru that ‘might’ not return is Nate Bear. The core team is remaining loyal and normal business is expected to return within a few months. I can’t wait! Just shows that their is justice in this world.
It’s going to take a few months to return services?? Do they plan on ever updating us with some sort of plan?
Also Nathan Bear was one of the best, do you think he will return?
Yeh I bet they do in the next few weeks. They better! I will rejoin them for sure if they start some of the better services back up. I was never a huge Nate Bear fan but didn’t really get the chance to really follow his stuff. I know so many people loved him though. Sad what Emmett and others did to them out of hatred and spite. Give it 6 months they’l be back and going strong imo.
Speaking as a RB subscriber, their advertising was completely unethical and I have no doubt they did pump and dumps at least partially. The fact that they made me money doesn’t change that and I have no reason to believe Emmett has lied or done anything unethical. I’m actually excited that they will have to provide a much higher quality of service now and greatly appreciate Emmett for that.
My 2 cents.
omg show proof you have made money with them you paid shill! No way you made money total scam!
Hi Shilly. This is Shillaine.
Remember me from that shill festival we attended together! What a time we’ve had! And what a line up of speakers.
First there was Simon Jousef, making $10 000 per client while trumpeting that he trades his own live account. Sadly CFTC eventualy found he never had a live account in his life but hey-ho! Life goes on – such trivialities are unimportant and we shills are nothing if not resilient. He rebrands and we carry on!
Then there was Jason Bond. Taught us anyone can get out of $ 250 000 debt. Find another six or so like-minded peddlers, decide on their trading history (minimum 20 years), MENSA score and what area each of them would cover – penny stock, options, etc. Make sure there is notable difference between them as you want people to see individual potential and sign up to as many as possible. Set up a firm. And then they signed us all up to help spread the word. I remember you signed that contract for a year. I opted for posting youtube videos (they like british accent).
Then there was a special appearance by Sam Seiden. He was a bit down at the time as he was just being cruelly CFTC-ed and switching between OTA and Pinnacle Institute (needs must) but none of that matters as long as he is up again. In fact I hear he is hiring again . . .
Louis Navellier was supossed to be a guest of honour and be awarded a Shill Academy Award for a lifetime achievement. But he couldn’t attend as he and Trump were away setting up trading course in North Korea.
And then the climax – a parade by the speakers’ wives modelling their latest fashion: fur coats off the back of a homeless cat (needs must again).
Times are changing and I am slightly worried. Too many of our heros have had to put up with their ethos being questioned by the ungrateful public. Still I hope everything will sort itself out and we will be able to continue as before, working for some of the biggest entrepreneurs who ever lived.
Kind regards
Shillaine Ainsworth- Shill
Ok, ok, I think you will like my new! New! Stock picking service….first give me your credit card number. I will give you a no refund policy! Then my friendly customer service reps will put you on hold for 6 hours! My new great service is called…wait ..wait .. How many fingers do I have behind my back! Novel eh?
Nathan Bear was The Best by far, not one of the best.
All the other so called Gurus on the platform should all take
lessons from him. Compared to Jason on a scale of 1 to 10
Nate is a 10 and Jason is maybe a 3. Jason should have his own service
just like Carter from Mastering the Trade.
correction to previous post, Nate should have his own service
OMG. That is some funny shit. LOL. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at “just shows that there is justice in this world.”
I’m still laughing hysterically at the fact that they have to run every scrap of promo material by 2 retired AG’s, who’re also deciding on refunds.
Every scammer’s nightmare!
Can I have your credit card number? I am offering you my new service! It’s called….wait …Heads or Tails! You really are a DS!
Where did you hear Nate Bear will not be back
I have discussed my concerns here before… there are smarter legal experts but I want to mention the small gals and guys. These folks tried the services of these crooks and were shut out from calls or emails! I beg all of you to search for BBB and Jason Bond! I have tried to cancel my subscription but cannot on their website! If I try to call no one answers or they put me on hold! Forever! I got endless emails for better services these Einstein’s chiselers could figure out! Put aside the accusations an put on the victims hat? I cannot cancel my service unless I call them…as long as they do not answer my calls they take my money? F the wives and F the children that some of you have claimed were so precious! F You! A child cannot keep the proceeds of crime! I have had enough!
Just close a credit card or cancel a direct debit or whatever you signed for. Talk to the bank. They should be able to help. Say it is a fraud and mention a court case, banks do take it seriously when it comes to fraud. You should be able to cancel it your end.
Scammers think the fact that they have a wife and children gives them the right to take from your wife and children. Most of us do an honest job to suport our families. Not sell lies then get misteriously unavailable when people take blinkers off and want to cancel.
Well said Nadina my friend. We only think after we have been scammed! Earlier I had included an email from them and my response. I can be accused of a lot of things but a cold heartless bastard is not one of them!
Oops. Wrong addressee
Was this less than 60 days ago? If so call the credit card company and report the card stolen. Request them to reverse all charges. If you used the card at other merchants, you can always pay those merchants again with the new card.
lol oh right – one of the ‘anti-fraud’ brigade is advocating credit card fraud! LOL! Hypocritical much?
It appears that my disrespect for criminals family has hit a sore spot. I wear my negative votes as a badge of honor! For all you down voters…send me your de-nutted steers profits! You seem to be millionaires with excess cash! Otherwise you can go xxiss up a rope! Robbers go to jail, their families cannot keep what they stole! Do you dim witted down voters understand now? Thought not!
you sound kind of cuckooo……you aren’t helping make the hater camp seem more credible!
I seem to have hit a nerve with my comments? Please I want to win the turkey! Down vote more! You POS!
Oh Derek, I feel bad you got so many downvotes. Not to worry, I just gave you an upvote.
I read filing complaint against the Kyle Dennis guy, went something like “He claimed that the COVID crisis presented the opportunity of a lifetime for investors!”
WOWW that’s sooo bad, how dare he? He must have broken so many laws, and also was probably totally wrong so we should imprison him.
Are you guys listening to yourselves? Are you really cheering this on? I read the first 20 pages of the filing and I’ve yet to come across a single law they’ve broken, especially this Kyle guy. Seriously, I’m curious, what laws did he break?
It’s always inadvisable to only read “the first 20 pages” of a 55-page complaint, not to mention 400 pp of affidavits and exhibits….
Thanks for clarifying what laws were broken; and you’re the one presuming they’re guilty so why don’t you read the 400 pages to prove their guilt.
Affidavits of what? “I lost my money in the stock market by following other people’s advice who said they made money in some trades!”…
Don’t mention it, I’m a giver.
That’s what I thought, got absolutely nothing.
Get off your lazy ass and actually read the complaint in full, then write down the citations based on which the FTC claims jurisdiction (it’s all there) and then study the case law.
This ain’t Judge Judy.
Clearly you have missed the point. The proof is all there, you just have to read it.
“”He texted three different trades. I immideately went in and attempted to make the same trade. On each one, the trades no longer existed for the prices Kyle alerted on, however, on his live portfolio it showed that he was making money.” XD!!
That was their leading choice for the affidavits… are you guys serious? Have any of you ever traded yourselves? Looks to me like you losers just want to see successful people fail, and greedy people who want to make millions without learning any skill get their subscription money back because they were stupid enough to believe marketers.
Actually, it is the marketing that is at issue, not the trades by themselves.
If your marketing intentionally omits or down-plays the risk of loss, omits capital requirements to produce gains, over-promises the ease and success rates, uses cherry-picked testimonials that do not reflect the experience of similarly-situated customers, misrepresents the success, credentials, and achievements of the gurus, knows that the window to enter into a trade at equal or closely comparable prices for large numbers is so tight few will be able to enter/sell at promoted enter/sell prices, hides refund and autorenew policies, manipulates the review of products on external sites and harasses discontent customers with frivolous lawsuits, your marketers may create a civil cause of action under consumer protection laws.
Having enjoined RB from engaging in that conduct for the duration of the litigation, the parties now can argue how the elements of the alleged misconduct fit or do not fit the law. The court will decide on the facts and then how those facts relate to the law.
Certainly, direct marketing of financial services is based on manipulating a prospect’s fear and greed. All are. But marketing of these services specializes in the expert, deliberate, and scientific manipulation of that greed by deception, misrepresentation, and omission in targeted populations.
If you yourself are an informed customer who purchased a product not because of but despite the alleged fraudulent misrepresentations, you can double-down by purchasing additional products and maybe life-time subscriptions the day that’s again possible. RB will be appreciative for any inflowing $$ to cover their refund obligations.
Re: your 1st paragraph – omitting capital requirements, down-playing risk of loss, using cherry-picked testimonials, etc… these all sound fair to me so I’m still curious what laws these would’ve broken.
The amount of disclosures needed for the above bullet points would be so dense that I highly doubt 99.9% of buyers would read it, so it would make no difference if they had them there (for all you and I know, they could have)
I know I’m coming off as defending these guys, but I don’t mean to. I know they are likely amoral, unethical pieces of shit and I’d never want anything to do with them. However, it’s cases like these that hinder entrepreneurship and competition. I am passionate about this topic because I was thinking of starting my own youtube channel and later website, and offer services similar to what guys like claytrader and Jaffee offer.
But with all the bs I’ve found on this website about people getting arrested and the laws already being as dense as they are in this topic about what you can and cannot say, I now feel like I need to go to law school and earn that J.D. before I can even open up that youtube channel! It’s seriously frightening. I don’t want to go to prison because some dummy thought he can be profitable all the time and become rich by copy pasting trade alerts!
Direct-marketed trading services avoid managing money because that industry is strictly regulated by the SEC, FINRA, etc. These require “advisors” to be licensed and to adhere to a strict code of conduct, and what you can say in your marketing.
As publishers they have a vastly expanded range of making claims, because editorial copy (the actual alerts etc., educational product) is almost fully protected under 1A, and marketing enjoys at least some protection as “commercial speech”.
In the recent FTC v. Agora Financial (2019), J. Gallagher illustrates through what kind of lens the law differentiates both:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.467030/gov.uscourts.mdd.467030.47.0.pdf
The Feds have honed in especially on testimonials and earnings claims used in marketing. Used to be all you needed to prove a claim was the email or comment posting of the customer: “Great, made 99% on your XYS play. Keep it up. Orville Mudsucker, Topeka KS”.
Now it looks like they’re having to at least obtain and keep proof that this was available to a representative share of your list. This may become a legal standard, as J. Russell just applied it in his order from last Friday, and Agora ended up “agreeing” to this term in February’s stipulated order.
Financial newsletters calculated their entry point of a recommendation by something like “market close at day of posting”. That means a large cluster of customers would be on roughly the same footing on that day.
With options plays, the window of buying “at or below $.x” can be minuscule, and allows only, say, 100 of your 10,000 subscribers to get in at anywhere near that level. And if the editor’s just crowing “I made 1,000% in five minutes” (bc. his 9,900 slower followers were only able to buy in at higher levels, pushing the price up, and the same on the exit), that statement may no longer enough when used in sales copy to push the subscriber to buy the super special lifetime offer for only $25,000.
If I were to spend the money to start a service, I’d spend the $500/h and confer with a lawyer from the RB defense team (all listed in the pleading) as to what line you should not cross in your marketing claims. I notice some are also familiar with the Agora case, so they should be familiar with the subject matter.
BTW, nobody is getting arrested. This is not a criminal case, “just” a civil matter. Good for Defendants as no-one will go to jail, bad for them because the burden of proof is lower for the FTC.
As to Competition: Transparency and honesty in marketing actually open up the competitive field. It’s no longer those fleecing the largest number of subscribers and, consequently, have the most money to buy the most high-priced professional liars to push their product.
They now would have to compete on quality of advice (=renewal income), customer satisfaction (=fewer refunds).
Less money in that than marketing lies, but hey: A happy customer files no complaints.
This was a super helpful post, thank you for clarifying. I immigrated to this country (the US) a few years ago so I don’t know the laws super well still. It’s just really discouraging whenever I have some sort business idea I have to think of so many legal things where even if I think I’m being good and ethical I might actually be breaking the law. In my country you are skeptical of anyone trying to sell you anything intangible so it boggles my mind how Americans fall so easily for these scams.
So if it was a criminal manner only then would they face jail time? As an example, what would they have done differently, for the worse, for it to be escalated to a criminal case?
Katana and Boondoggle
Sorry to interrupt a really relevant conversation Please continue as soon a I am done – it is good for everyone to read.
I just want to thank you both for taking this conversation to a different level. Nice to know we can talk like normal people, respect each other and learn from each other. Not bitch against each other. Katana, I initially misjudged you. (I nearly asked you to tell RB_back, if you see him, that I am still waiting for those statements he promised). But I see now it may actually be that you are NOT on Raging Bull payroll. At least I hope you are genuine.
It sounds a bit like you did not realise before that a land of opportunity is also a land of fraud. But like Boondoggle says, conducting an honest business may actually pay off. You get to sleep at night. There is still hope for that great land you moved into . . .
Thanks for the reply Nadina. I just want to open up my own business as I feel I have a lot more to offer than these fraudster day traders and forex traders I see on youtube. I feel like I can actually add value – I made 120% ROI last year and not just from a few lucky trades – over 600 trades (not day trading, swing trading and heavy diversification, but mostly option buying and selling).
But instead I’ve spent most of my time researching laws and what I can and can’t say, and I’m even willing to get the licenses needed, but I’m still unclear and left with the option of forking over a grand or two to lawyers to answer all these questions. Like can I even talk about stock market analysis? I read online that even if I say “for entertainment purposes only” I still am not allowed to review stocks or talk general market analysis or I can face up to 5 years in prison. Yet there’s unlicensed clowns all over youtube that go even further saying “BUY this penny stock NOW” which I’m pretty sure is illegal as could be…
Of course you can talk about your stock market analysis, you can write about it, blog about it, youtube about it. This is America. All this is protected by the First Amendment, so you don’t need a license or accreditation. In fact, except for a few mustered-out industry analysts and fund managers, the most most successful editors/gurus in the industry are entirely self-made.
It’s those new perspectives that let you discover unique constellations of catalysts that create good products.
Just make clear that this is your opinion and that you cannot guarantee that you’re right. Mention potential risks.
Here’s what I think:
Once you move to selling your service, continue to tell the truth and tell it well. Don’t make claims you cannot back up, don’t make promises you cannot fulfill. Make sure that your terms of sale are clear and unambiguous. Don’t tell people you’re making $$ hand over fist if you’re down for the year.
Make sure that the nature of your service is clearly understood and can be used by your traget market: Many desperate money-seekers don’t qualify to trade options. Make that clear and don’t try to sell them the service as a Push the button and money will fall out magic box — and then deny them a refund.
Be like Costco. Create happy customers. If they’re not happy, refund them, no questions asked. Focus on products people want to renew to. Make them the best they can be.
All this will keep you from making the kind of mega sales that short-circuits the brains of the scammers and makes them addicts of ever-new cash by ever-new products/promises/sales.
Happy customers who bought what they thought they bought and are getting more than they bargained for will not fill the BBB complaints site or pissedconsumer.com, and where there is no pressure building up based on complaints, it’s unlikely that the regulatory inertia will be overcome to take any action against you.
This said, consulting with a lawyer may help you understand what the law is. Never hurts. But make sure the attorney understands that industry, namely that every element of such a publishing business is part of a sales effort, be that new sale, up-sale, re-sale, cross-sale. Most attorneys can’t tell the difference between old-time media and the hybrid, mongrel entity that is the advice industry.
In other words: if you have indeed made $250 000 trading and got yourself out of debt for the same amount, just keep the statements. You have nothing to worry about. If you have not – don’t claim that you have and then sell on the back of it. Someone will complain and the judge will ask for statements. How can that kind on common sense advice cost $ 500 per hour? Because . . . if they pay for it maybe they will listen.
But why should the burden of proof be lower ? Isnt that just opening people up to this kind of vendetta lawsuit? Just accuse them of crap then hand pick some ads and disgruntled testimonials. Then show the ftc these and let them see dollar signs since the company makes $100mm a yr…..and high profile. Then the ftc can just go in and say whatever and force a settlement.
You are an a$$ho,e! I read further down the thread but at this point you have JB tattooed on your a$$!
lol that guy below is saying RB ‘cherry picked’ testimonials but that is EXACTLY what Moore fed the FTC – cherry picked negative testimonials. RB gathered over 500 positive testimonials (sworn for use in court) within hours of being ambushed by the FTC. Ten times the number. It took in a YEAR of obsessive diligence for these bozos to gather 1/10th the number in negative ones. The FTC was more than happy to run with the negative ones! There should be a countersuit here imo.
They should definitely counter sue me. That would be the best course of action.
I stand by the job that I performed on Raging Bull. It was a job well done.
lol all these haters are like this…..also you will find they spit venom and accuse you of being a paid shill for the ‘criminals’ despite no crimes being committed and certainly they are innocent until proven otherwise. Even the lawyer on here seems to forget that!
Actually, a lawyer knows that, in a civil suit, nobody will be found “guilty” — but only “civilly liable” or not by a preponderance of the evidence…
Katana…have you listened to me and looked up BBB and Jason Bond? If you have not then be quiet! You have no right to comment until you read what a scheme they were running!
Dennis was right in saying that the COVID-19 pandemic provided the opportunity of a lifetime for investors. However, investors didn’t need Dennis’ shitty service to seize that opportunity. All they needed to do is read a chart and execute a buy and hold strategy.
They are just mad he is rich and they aren’t 🙂 this place is a cess pool of hate. I mean it is run by a convicted felon that is accused of STILL committing crimes in this field! What else would you expect from his supporters like DickHead Dog and BoonBum ?
Don’t lash out at Emmett for what is your own fault – or whoever at RB you are close to. If those refunds were dealt with promptly and politely none of this would have happened. RB pissing too many people off is not Emmett’s fault. So now American judiciary is in the pocket of Emmett Moore who is the devil incarnate and we are a coven of witches sent to destroy you?
They are “just mad he is rich”? From someone whose ancestor was killed by the communists and all the land taken away from the family in a then communist country – please don’t lecture me about a free society. You want respect? Give it first. You don’t get to treat paying customers like vermin and go unpunished.
Hmmm, “supporters like DickHead Dog and BoonBum.” Well in the absence of any cohesive or convincing arguments to support your position I guess that throwing out insults is a strategy. I am honored to be included in an insult that includes Boondoggle and I think that Nadina S was robbed to not be here with us. Maybe next time Nadina S.
I made money with options with RB Especially with Nathan. I hope he returns. With just SMS alerts many times I did not get iN at his prices. Once I purchased a second monitor and he put sound on his computer alerting his trades I did so much better. He started doing spreads, which can be confusing at first, yet it was easier to get in at a better price. I hope they all come back.
Hi Everyone. How do you get the latest information about RJ case? Do we need to hire a lawyer to get our money back. I paid a lot to them for different lifetime services. Is there a chance they refund our money back even if they resume the services?
Review what offer you responded to when you bought. If it contained a refund clause, the court has ordered to give refunds when asked for one.
If the terms of the offer did not include a refund provision, either by omission or by express language, pull all your information together, including the original offer with all the promises made and any losses incurred based on RB recommendations, and submit that to the court-appointed Independent Monitor that will be taking over the refund requests.
(They may send out an email blast to the customer base with all information.)
The 2 main monitors are former attorney generals w/ strong consumer protection backgrounds, so there is a good chance that they might entertain refund requests where an offer did either not specify or exclude refunds. The court gave them discretion to do so.
However, they have the option of rolling you into another product instead of returning your money.
When it comes to lifetime offers, I think the argument that any RB product’s life expectation is severely compromised by the 4-month shut-down and pending litigation, is available to you. Since life-time offers are calculated based on annual price * x years (you can figure that out yourself), you may be entitled to a pro-rated refund.
That’s not spelled out in the order, but run it up the flagpole if necessary.
At worst, you have logged your perceived damages for the point in time where restitution is either agreed-on or court-ordered, or when it is possible to join the pending class action suit.
all i know is i paid for a life time elite membership on payments i received a one year option to pay it off the last payment was on 11/12/20 a month later they were shut down. I made several paymens towards the elite lifetime and didnt get what i paid for…
Scroll down RB_Back. You must be getting tired of Boondoggle handing you your ass and crushing you. Keep up the good work Boondoggle.
Its all in the eye of the beholder my dear doggy. I just want my shillin fee’s thats all lolol
You’re just a clueless fool who’s either paid by RagingBull to defend them or you truly are extremely blind to their relentless marketing scamming machine. Either way I feel sorry for you and these crooks will eventually be forced into bankruptcy as no one in their right mind will ever sign up for their outrageously expensive fraudulent money losing services ever again. All it takes is a Google search and check out the BBB website to realize what kind of crooks they truly are. You know the saying: Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice…..