The Federal Trade Commission or FTC has filed a several hundred-page complaint alleging a massive $137 million fraud against Raging Bull, LLC., Jason Bond, Jeff Bishop, and Kyle Dennis in Federal Court, District of Maryland.
The complaint was filed today, on December 8, 2020, and is several hundred pages long.
As readers are aware, TradingSchools.Org has been involved in several legal entanglements with Jason Bond and Jeff Bishop over several articles that we have published over the past several years.
We have fought vigorously and spent quite a bit of money in legal fee’s to protect our reviews — with each review alleging investment educational fraud relating to stocks and options trading.
Our reviews were published in the following order:
- Trust Pilot: the Mecca of FRAUDULENT trading reviews
- Is Petra Picks a SCAM?
- Jason Bond Picks
- Jason Bond Picks: Millionaire Roadmap? Or Pathway to Financial Disaster?
Additionally, TradingSchools.Org embedded complaint forms within several of the articles which were then forwarded to the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, and the Federal Trade Commission.
In total, TradingSchools.Org processed approximately 60 credible complaints that included affidavits which were also shared with various members of Congress – both Senate and House.
Three of the individuals listed in the Federal Trade Commission complaint are persons that TradingSchools.Org interviewed personally — before they were forwarded to the FTC.
Additionally, TradingSchools.Org provided key evidence used by the FTC in their complaint regarding Jason Bond and his phony Harvard University representation.
At this point, I cannot write a full and complete article regarding the FTC lawsuit. However, multiple parties have asked that I post the lawsuit publicly so that readers pick through the allegations.
The following documents are as follows:
Document A: This is the complaint filed by the FTC which gives a brief description of the allegations.
Document B: This is a temporary restraining order where the FTC is freezing the company assets of Raging Bull, LLC and the personal assets of Jason Bond, Jeff Bishop, and Kyle Dennis. According to the FTC, they are taking all of the assets but will leave each of the defendants with $25k in which to pay their bills and support their families.
Document C: Raging Bull and all of the assets seized from Bond, Bishop, and Dennis will be placed into receivership pending the outcome of the trial. The assets will presumably be held to repay the victims of this fraud.
Document D: These are the exhibits and victim impact statements that the FTC has attached as part of their complaint.
Once again, TradingSchools.Org will be publishing a full and complete article on our interactions with various enforcement bodies regarding our involvement in the investigation.
Also, I will be publishing an article on the various lawsuits that Raging Bull filed against various parties, including their own students alleging defamation of character. In particular, we will be writing about the lawsuit against David Jaffee, where he was sued by Raging Bull and Ross Cameron of Warrior Trading within several days of each other.
As many readers are also aware, Ross Cameron of Warrior Trading began at Raging Bull, before starting Warrior Trading. Readers will find the connection interesting.
Once again, check back for these articles. But for now, you can read the complaint in their entirety.
Emmett, can you do the follow up article to this where you reveal all the behind the scenes malarky with the moles infiltrating RagingBull etc? I think it will be really interesting! Can you also include all the names and roles of the people involved like Sydney Budina, Jaffee etc. and all the evidence gathering? I think you mentioned in the article this would be coming and I literally can’t wait for all the details! Info on any family influence within the government etc. would also be useful insights. The entire story! A book perhaps?
Would love Emmett to do Truetradinggroup. TTG
In case anyone missed it. March 8th, 2022:
“Online Investment Site to Pay More Than $2.4 Million for Bogus Stock Earnings Claims and Hard-to-Cancel Subscription Charges. RagingBull.com promised quick profits trading stocks but many consumers lost substantial money and were trapped in expensive subscription plans”
(https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/03/online-investment-site-pay-more-24-million-bogus-stock-earnings-claims-hard-cancel-subscription)
“.. end the earnings deception, get affirmative approval from consumers for subscription sign ups, and provide them with a simple method to cancel recurring charges.”
“It also requires that consumers who call to cancel cannot be placed on hold longer than 10 minutes, and that any voicemails requesting cancellation be returned within one business day.”
“The FTC’s lawsuit against defendant Kyle Dennis will continue.”
Er . . . right. So Raging Bull chose to settle without admitting liability. Just as Prince Andrew did when he paid 12 million to Virginia Giuffre, also without admitting liability. I can tell you here in greatest confidence that as a result all of UK is now convinced he is no perv, just as RB settlement succeeded in persuading us that they are no scam. Well done. This will make their tarnished reputation look really fresh. Like a mature harlot first thing in the morning.
Hi Nadina, absolutely, RB is still exposed for all their many millions of ill-gotten gains from tens of thousands of victims, and their slapdown is going to last for quite a while, hopefully for several years before we get anymore of their stupid grinning ads on yoututbe ever again. As a termite slowly re-emerging from the tradingschools and FTC spotlights, they start again, firstly with “modest” attempts hiring a new “contracted” shill on youtube here: (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPWzuyHjgRde51gtFqM2z_g) who also did a shilling for the now old “RockwellTrading” Heikotter scam who was long exposed by a brave victim who did a blog and video proving they were always bullshitting their faked results: (https://rockwelltradingscam.wordpress.com/scam/). Well at least one thing the shiller reported that was good in the fallout, that one of their pretend trading-hero frauds , Kyle Dennis has left RB for good. And good their main page is a so far “trading blog” homepage, with posted “market news” to the side like typical shamshows (like connors site when he failed to sell his expensive “the machine” trading picks bot scam) in the past used to do to keep a lower profile, but still try to pretend they know something or are “somebody” in the financial world, like a stocktwitter, lol.
On the stupid RB page announcement: “Raging Bull over the years had in place advertising and marketing practices that conformed with what dozens of its competitors were — and in many cases still are — doing.”
I don’t know why, but my prior heads up on Amico for you, somehow didn’t get posted here. The shammer with the basement red baseball cap video for GTR , continuing on with his veritasfutures shamshow and victimizing losing bot, still wanted his ill-gotten gained (and past 30 million mortgage fraud) luxury mansion, but then has to settle for one “hidden” in the old america hick boondocks! lol. Where someone maybe local noticed his purchase of the luxury home a few years ago: (https://futures.io/trading-reviews-vendors/42854-veritasfuturestrading-com-looks-great-12.html#post847815). Glad to see you, Stray, Boondoggle, etc., continuing on the exposing fight and postings against these never-ending shamshows.
RagingBull publishes the truth! https://ragingbull.com/jeff-bishop/raging-bull-fends-off-ftc-blindside/ total vendetta by Moore and others in my opinion.
Did you even read Boondoggle’s replies?
naw they good dawg. No fraud. No real oversight in place they were basically exonerated. Business as usual.
Of course, why read something that would conflict with your predetermined cognitive bias.
Don’t bother, Stray Dog.
Brayden recently outed himself as a marketer or some such (“not a copy writer”) for, presumably, RB or Agora, in a thread that has since been deleted.
This means Brayden has (a) a natural affinity for lying; (b) a natural inclination to believe the lies he and his employers are telling; (c) a deep-seated psychological need to consider himself and his employers both “victims” of the government and “exonerated” — because acknowledging that he was and is part of a scam operation would create a conflict between what is left of his conscience and his self-deception.
Not new, another famous exponent of direct-mail consumer fraud to this day claims the SEC was after him because the “government” didn’t like what he said about “Freddy and Fanny”. Even though it turns out he really didn’t say all that much about it while it would have actually mattered…
Of course, the consent order (in which RB accepts the FTC’s allegations as true for the purpose of the order) is a res that ipsa loquitur, as the tort lawyers say. No matter what spin the spinners put on it now.
(Can’t see how their lawyers would be thrilled about their post, but hey…)
Case closed on RagingBull case? What was the outcome? Were they fined or anything? It looks like very little happened to them from a legal standpoint.
Funny you should ask.
Just 2 days ago, on 3/8/22 RB “agreed to” a stipulated order, under whose terms they pay $2.4 mill into to FTC kitty, agree to have the FTC quite literally embedded in their ass for the next 10 years, and — most importantly — swear they never again engage in the fraudulent conduct that they so vigorously denied they were engaged in when the Feds came a’knocking.
In other words, they’re now allowed to limp along on what they actually can achieve, not blatant lies. (No more Harvard luncheons…) That also means: No lies, no “fastest-growing business”.
Like a bull with his balls in a vise…
In some ways, the order against Agora was worse (they have 20 years of accountability to the FTC), in others better: Agora’s fine included refunds to customers, RB already has already been forced to make all enforceable refunds and now very generously supports further regulatory activity by the FTC in addition to what they’ve shelled out already. The 10mil the 2 JB’s had to put in escrow apparently have been spent on keeping the business alive.
Looks like another notch in the bed post for Emmett.
https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/294-1_-_proposed_stipulated_final_order_as_to_rb_defendants.pdf
Awesome thanks for linking to that! That is kind of hilarious though, $2.4MM is less than 3% of their ANNUAL revenue. Hardly the hammering people were hoping for.
lol probably cost the FTC way more to do all this :). Also the affiliate monitor has been removed.
The FTC has fixed costs in its attorneys’ salaries. They pay them the same litigating against RB as litigating anything else. So there’s no “additional cost” other than the usual cost of doing business.
The receivership (thus, the transfer of all RB data to the custody of the FTC) and Monitor were/are paid for by RB (although the receiver still seems to not have been able to collect). Looks like 10% of their staff now is their semi-embedded, semi-employed compliance staff — which doesn’t generate a nickel in revenues, only takes the fun out of marketing.
So the 2.4mil is pure gravy for the government, not that they’re counting.
Also, RB may have been bragging about grossing 100mil — but that was before the smackdown. This is coming out of FY22 P/L’s. My guess is that current gross is FAR below that of 2019. Probably 50-60% lower.
And it’s not the 2 mil that hurt them. It’s not being able to market with the bald-faced, unsupported lies that constituted their (and almost all other direct-marketed financial publishers’) marketing. It is far more difficult to lure a suspect with a documented 25% or even 125% gainer than promise them “450%… 923%… even 4,621%… like clockwork… every Monday morning by 10:51am… rain or shine… no money down.”
It’s also harder to attract novice buyers if you have to spell out your refund policy, not hide it in the fine print.
The RB brand name is irredeemably tainted. (Just look at the BBB warning.) They have to steer a pretty narrow course to avoid “deliverability problems” with the service providers or Spamhaus.
Just look at how quiet Agora has become… their staff more than halved (over that of 2018), with their CEO virtually in hiding, holding company changing its name in shame, oldest franchise ditto, the founder “retiring” from writing his daily schlock, and the executive advisor of 30yrs now doing mainly book and movie reviews.
Fun’s over.
This is as good as it gets.
So, it looks like the settlement thing also said they aren’t admitting guilt. This really seems like a slap on the wrist to me. Also, those promises you state like 4,621% – I never saw anything as blatant as that anywhere in any marketing material. Not once did they say you didn’t need capital etc. I feel like you have a very skewed negative outlook on the trading education niche. Isn’t Agora still part of a multi-billion dollar empire?
Standard lingo for settlement agreements: All you can get in exchange for a promise to be a better person (or at least not a vile liar, err, scumbag copy writer/marketer) and a couple mill is saying that you neither admit or deny the allegations.
(Of course, if you’re also forced to send your customers a note saying you’re changing your evil ways bc of the lawsuit, you implicitly admit that you were just as bad as, if not worse than, what the original complaint alleged.)
Agora is still part of something. A multi-billion empire is not that something. For what’s left (now that the vilest liars, err, copy writers have moved on to greener pastures), there’s half a dozen consumer protection orgs watching and cataloging each marketing promise like hawks… filing and refiling complaints w/ the FTC whenever they push the envelope…
Again, Agora & now RB are absolute wins for the FTC as far as civil litigation is involved. They already sent shock waves through the industry.
I think the Feds’ next step may be trying to make criminal charges stick against one of the many surviving scam businesses hiding behind the 1st Amendment. Probably not RB or Agora. Wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t a CFTC or SEC “collab” in the works…
Not really sending shockwaves through the industry. When I’ve spoken to people from both the organizations you mentioned, they generally just laugh and make jokes like ‘you aren’t anyone until the FTC sues you it’s a rite of passage’ etc. The general consensus is that the FTC are just trying to wrangle money out of successful companies and are annoying but nothing to be phased by. See it for what this has been – a silly revenge plot by pulling strings and pointing feds at a company that sued for libel. RagingBull got such a light slap on the wrist the whole case is a joke!
You know, I totally believe that.
Although 20 years between Federal complaints for fraud really doesn’t make anything a “rite of passage.” But I’ve been a defense attorney for 30 years and encountered that attitude, albeit usually with clients criminally charged… mostly trafficking or drug conspiracy clients. It’s an indicator of a hermetically sealed bubble world this kind of people choses to live in. Where up is down and left is right.
Kind of like a Democrat.
You probably know best, because if you’ve “spoken to people from both organizations” you’re likely an actor in either one. Product manager? Copy writer? Don’t matter. If you were not named as a party in the suit, you are in a subordinate role and don’t have to worry much.
In my experience, being put through the ringer by Feds for over a year is a harrowing experience. No client of mine ever came out the same.
How is what RagingBull did any different from say you do as a defense attorney? You guys spin the story to make your clients look as good as possible right? So those RB guys try to make their products look as good as possible. They didn’t lie and you attorneys don’t lie as such (I hope!) but rather you show off the best of the product/client. So when they show a testimonial of a customer of course they aren’t going to show the testimonial of some whiny losing trader. In a similar way you will focus on the positive aspects of your clients character or actions and diminish the bad. Should we charge YOU with fraud or accuse you of being a scam?
Not sure if I, as a sworn officer of the court, should be insulted by you equating my profession to unscrupulous marketers and film-flam men.
I am bound by the law and by the ethical rules of my profession. A dollar misappropriated from a client’s escrow account or a promise I cannot keep can cost me my license and my livelihood. If I don’t have my case law at hand arguing in court, I will damage my client & endanger my reputation, which is pretty much everything you have in this job.
My career would be over if a respected Federal judge expressly and on the record questioned my credibility. In your job (it’s not a profession), you just go on to make millions continuing your schemes with minor tweaks.
Until you get McCorkle’d by the Feds.
Now compare this to a copy writer. Someone who calls dividend stocks “Congressional checks”, bamboozles an elderly lady to put $4.95 on a cc (for “shipping & handling” of an emailed report), timing cancellation dates so her negative option offer for a non-refundable, automatically renewed $99, $149 etc. kicks in. Or sells surefire unproven, entirely made up trading systems to rubes for $5k based on a made-up record. Puh-leaze.
(Now I AM offended!)
If you engage in commercial speech, that speech is not unregulated. Ask any 2L law student. Get yourself a used Constitutional Law text book and read up on the very basics.
Maybe you’ll get the difference. But if you don’t… that means you’ve already bought into the bubble. That means you’re stuck with it. Bc no-one else knows anything about your business and your skills do not transplant anywhere but to another scam outfit.
I’m not a copy writer…..you have to know that many people don’t think very highly of attorneys though! You can see the similarities ? The ridiculous high fees and the spinning the facts etc. Some might call that a scam! You give refunds ?
Quite honestly, I don’t really give a flying f*ck what “many” people think about attorneys. Based on my experience, if they need one, they can’t get one fast enough, and money usually is not an issue.
It’s because you actually NEED an attorney on occasion. (Just ask Agora and RB.)
On the other hand, I’ve never heard anyone say, “honey, we’re out of newsletters. Can you pick some fresh lies on your way home?”
My terms are clear and, as per the non-negotiable Rules of Professional Conduct, my fee structure is transparent, my fees accounted for down to 6-min. increments. Indeed, I make clear from the first consultation, that there are no guarantees of success and there are no refunds for time spent and billed, court fees etc. Not in the fine print, with pre-checked boxes and hidden automatic renewals but in face-to-face, term-by-term explanation with/to the client.
In fact, when I take a contingency case (all civil, of course), I charge nothing unless there is an award of damages to the client. (Hmmm, I wonder if you have tried that in your business…)
As to “spinning facts” — the facts are the facts. It’s how they relate to the elements of a crime or tort, to due process, 4th, 5th, 6th, 14th Amendment case law and all that good stuff you don’t really learn about when you watch Judge Judy. You can’t just blow stuff out your ass, as in direct response marketing. (“Himalayan Silk”…)
So the only thing your job (given your emotional need to defend scammers, I assume you’re a marketer or some such creature) and my profession is that we both deal with people who lie. I deal with clients and you deal with copy writers and your publishers.
Difference, I know that everybody lies and act accordingly. You actually delude yourself that your industry lies are reality, no, even “good for you”.
‘Based on my experience, if they need one, they can’t get one fast enough, and money usually is not an issue’ aka preying on the desperate people that will pay you anything to save themselves. hmmmm. SCAM!
Also: Opening the door to rebuttal witnesses by highlighting the “positive aspects of [my] client’s character”?? Maybe in a sentencing, VOP or parole hearing. Think about it.
The Legal Field Attracts Psychopaths, Author Says; Not That There Is Anything Wrong with That (abajournal.com)
Believe me, I do understand your psychological need to throw shade at my profession.
After all, my dear colleagues at the FTC and at the AG’s of PA, OR, & PA just in the past 2 years forced the two most egregious scoundrels of your predatory industry to grovel, “agree” to “voluntary” fines in excess of actual damages, AND to (indirectly) concede that their lack of ethics requires the Federal government to oversee their marketing efforts and customer relations for the next 10-20 years.
That must smart, almost as badly as now having to pretend to put in an honest day’s work.
(Sure, your postings here and what I’ve seen of your former colleagues on job sites, indicate that their assent to brutal terms, too, may have been fraudulent. None of my beeswax, I’m sure future breach-of-contract litigation will resolve that, especially now that injured consumers could also sue as third-party beneficiaries to the agreements.)
I also agree with you that the legal profession demands certain psychological qualities of their practitioners: The adversarial system requires of us that we fully and dedicatedly defend the most vile characters in society. Fentanyl dealers, human traffickers, killers, child abusers.
Not easy, if you have a sense of right and wrong. But somebody’s gotta do it. The sacrifices we make…
But honestly, while I’ll always defend the constitutional rights of a contract killer, I have always drawn the line at defending white collar crooks, conmen, and direct marketers. I can ignore a lot of bad odors, but the stench of direct marketing financial services is too much even for my asbestos olfactory nerves.
So, little boy, you’re now dismissed: Go back to figuring out how to swindle your next paycheck from a retired church lady with cancer! (“Himalayan silk!!”)
Ha! You hate financial marketers so much I get it! But you are suffering from selective thinking. You are overlooking all the wrong ‘facts’ that go into many of these cases by attorneys like you. That isn’t fair either. Do you believe that everything the FTC said in the case against RB was true? Do you really think that the case wasn’t spun to fit the narrative? Do you read the rebuttals and just scoff at any evidence that goes against your blind hatred?
Now, now, little fellah. Don’t get your frilly panties in a bunch, wipe that spittle from the corners of your mouth, and simmer down from your temper tantrum.
First, why would I “bind[ly] hate” financial marketers. It’s such an inflationarily used cliché. I don’t “hate” something unappetizing or foul smelling, don’t “hate” the dog excrement on the pavement or the bubbly green sputum on the handrail. I kinda wrinkle my nose, suppress a gag reflex when necessary, shudder in silence, and try not to come into contact with it. Maybe warn my kid not to step in it.
Same with financial direct marketers or the guy from “Microsoft Technical Service” who calls 3x a week to scam my personal info: I kinda gag and hold my nose and hang up.
See, no blind hatred here.
As to reading the pleadings: Of course I read everything. Lawyers who don’t read don’t last long in the business. And I certainly didn’t envy my colleagues retained by RB who had to polish that particular turd, err, try to get the case dismissed responding to the complaint.
(Then again, they got paid extremely well, so my compassion is kinda small.)
As to what the FTC said was true, I refer you to Section VII (“Additionally Monetary Provisions”) (B), at 12-13 of the Proposed Stipulated Order, where the RB defendants assert: “The facts alleged in the Complaint will be taken as true, without further proof, in any susequent civil litigation by or on behalf of the Commission, including blahblahblah”.
So don’t blame me.
Interesting. So what is your story? Did you spend a ton on trading education and/or alerts then get pissed off ?
I’d consider my law school tuition entirely wasted if I were to purchase an “education” from an unaccredited “institution” or “academy” based on completely unaudited numbers.
Let’s call it a macabre interest, sparked by my dad’s initial curiosity in “Who Killed Vincent Foster,” refreshed, years later while reading appellate opinions from the 4th Circuit…
Ha! You know fine well people are bullied into settling things like this by the government. Don’t play so naive! It’s just making you more like the liar/manipulator your profession rewards.
What you are saying is that Kyle Dennis has more spine than your 2 JB’s combined?
You mean the “billion-dollar empire” and the “fastest growing company” with $100mil+ p.a. revenues and tapped into unlimited earnings potential thanks to the trading acumen of their gurus rolls over when the Feds say “boo”?
They refused to refund my money…because they decided after the fact that the money was non-refundable and therefore they don’t owe me anything. I don’t even want the money I lost. I just want my subscription fees back.
I am a RagingBull subscriber and found out Jason Bond has been lying about profits after I did some digging. He claims he made over 500,000 one month but fails to mention most of it was from an angel investment but stated it was based off of trading. bunch of liars and when I called to get a refund they offered me credits instead same lies
Lol the FTC and Emmett should be ashamed of themselves. Basically they temporarily crippled one of the fastest growing companies in the US, dragged their names through the dirt, cost hundreds of employees jobs, SPENT MILLIONS IN TAX PAYER MONEY and the outcome? The new (court approved ads) are the same except they are being made to say ‘at no cost’ instead of ‘free’. Wowzer!
Not to mention the tens of thousands of customers that lost access to subscriptions etc. Many were happy with their purchases and they lost them. More harm than good imo.
You really are trying. Posting here under different names (RDB, MyBoo, JasonCheese, DaveRogue). And always careful to put in a different email address so posts can’t be traced back to the same source. But similar style gives you away. Lots of LOLs, capitals, self-absorbed statements on a high about a big come-back and how Raging Bull is here to stay . . .
We got you. You are desperate to paint Raging Bull as just another honest company minding its own business, paying its bills, throwing parties for the employees – the usual stuff. Just another “fast growing company”. If IBM or Amazon are left alone, why are Raging Bull prosecuted? Injustice indeed. IBM and Amazon actually have to do some work for the money they earn. Their customers get what they paid for. They do not get sold web of lies and non-existent fast-evaporating nothingness.
Now before you give me crap about the difference between selling physical goods and “intellectual property” don’t you worry. I know all about selling intellectual property. Which is why I am going into business myself. I and Stray’s great-grandaunt (the one married to an Independent Court Monitor) intend to fill the gap in the market left behind after Raging Bull demise. We will be called Raging Bulldog. First we have to get ourselves some internet personas. We will borrow Jewel (Emmett’s French bulldog) to be our mascot. I hope Emmett will not be obstructive as I have already invested in dog biscuits. Cheaper than hiring a plane. We’ll get a Santa hat for Jewel – Christmas is near, it all builds up the mood and people like it. The grandaunt will be our moderator. We’ll get her to wear a judge’s wig. She is a true British patriot who stayed in UK after the rest of the family moved to Australia. Ask Stray if you don’t believe me. It is a great rags to riches story – puts Jason Bond to shame. She turned her little pension pot of £ 20 000 into a million in only three months, trading from her kitchen in her little village of Scratchy Bottom in Dorset, UK. She will be the face of the company. I will be responsible for the business plan. Speaking of which . . . I might even take a leaf out of the book of my great trading mentor Melissa Armo (of The Stock Swoosh) and get myself some leather and a whip. But that’s a subject for another day. Would you agree that this is a great business model for selling intellectual property?
lol “one of the fastest growing” traducation FRAUDS in the U.S.! hundreds of desperate held-hostage employees. Well, guess what, the minwage of many fastfood and service jobs now pay probably more than your slavewage positions with “training” to refund deny , obfuscate and prey on hapless aspiring retail trading victims. I know of someone who was fooled by your earlier defunct “picks” sites, JB, back in 2012 and your fake trading and losing newsletter sub calls. The gall to keep coming back for so long to do this “American Greed” worthy shamshow, trying to get away with it for long no matter the damage to victim strangers’ personal finances with your scam. Hope the actual CNBC show does an éxpose episode on you sham guys someday.
Calling them frauds is slander. The court ruled no fraud.
Ragingbull webinar on now. Apparently they had a MASSIVE blowout party to celebrate the win in the case in Balitmore last week. I saw an employee below mention that they had. The BULL IS BACK BABY!
YouTube Ads with Jason Bond are back on. Doesn’t seem like they are being ‘taken down’ really to me. The ad I just watched was pretty funny – he was like ‘Yes it’s me Jason Bond and I’m BACK!’. Either way, it looks like they are doing just fine with ad budget back up and running….I suspect they didn’t really do anything wrong? I mean it looks like its going to be business as usual. I suspect the confusion on here with people thinking that RagingBull is ‘going down’ with this whole FTC thing is due to comparing RB to other organizations that Moore has targeted. For example, the Online Trading Academy case is quite different from the one against RB. The outcome thus far has been quite different as well, and I suspect we will see close monitoring of the advertising (from the affiliate monitors) and then that will be it. I don’t see anything indicating that they will be destroyed by huge fines etc. At the end of the day, it looks to me like they were a tad aggressive in their marketing and the treatment they have received from the Government has been unfair imo. It kind of looks like the FTC just goes after wealthy fast growing companies in the financial niche.
I hope you feel better now you said it. But it won’t make much difference to how anyone perceives Raging Bull or to the facts of the case.
You lose. Not guilty! Haters goina hate!
It’s a civil case, you dope.
NG is a potential criminal outcome, based on a determination of guilt “beyond reasonable doubt”. Not ALL doubt, but that’s about 100:0 (more or less).
Civil cases determine civil liability based on the far lesser burden of proof of “preponderance of the evidence”. That’s 51:49.
The finder of fact, at a bench trial: the judge, has to determine if the preponderance of the evidence indicates that RB and JBx2 “more likely than not” intended to defraud customers by misrepresenting facts.
Based on his previous rulings (and the fact that he’s all but put them into the monitor’s gimp box), I’d say the chances of a finding of liability are better than 53:47.
But who knows.
lol I love how you call ME a dope. Ummmm you misunderstood me….when I wrote ‘Not guilty’ I didn’t mean that the judge had brought down his hammer and shouted that. It wasn’t a legal definition! I ment that, in my opinion, they are not guilty. Spaz.
Talking of “guilty” and — worse — “innocent” in a civil law context is like someone congratulating Michael Jordan on scoring so many “goals”. Only something a complete dope would do…
Never underestimate how lazy and disinterested a Federal judge can be. Sometimes it really surprises me.
Finally these 3 idiots were taken out of business of scamming the world
They are still operating. I am an employee there. They are trying to trick the receiver. Can someone please let the receiver know to dig deeper and get on the company calls, unannounced? They will see right through what they are trying to do. Everything they are doing is to just keep the receiver at bay. Then they will go back to their old ways.
No they weren’t taken out…..I just saw a YouTube ad by Jason Bond….
I am a victim of the RagingBull Scam. Lost $5000 and they declined to refund me.
They deserve to be in prison.
omg omg omg CRIMINAL CHARGES just announced!!!!
Provide a link to the source please.
Please provide a link to the source of information.
I suspected the US Attorney was contemplating fraud charges. But no announcements that I can find.
Haven’t seen anything, either, but I’m sure Jason would be allowed to post bond….
Lol! “Jason allowed to post Bond.”
lol just joking about the charges but i made u losers cream your panties LOL in reality they are making millions selling products again!
That was hilarious. “I suspected the US Attorney was contemplating fraud charges” Yes, Emmett, of course you suspected it all along lol
Ah, another dimwit. What happen Mike? Couldn’t work out what the rest of the words in Emmett’s comment were? Here let me help you, “But no announcements that I can find.” which means that he suspected or thought that maybe, and we know “thinking” is something that you shills have great difficulty with, but finding no confirmation it remained a thought not a fact. Once again, not jumping to conclusions unless there is verified proof.
The common characteristic of the Raging Steer shills who post here is their lack of intelligence. You read enough of them, and it becomes obvious why they are so easily scammed. Sweetypie, did you read where I asked for your source of information? Does my post or anyone’s post that answered yours, read like anyone jumped for joy or believed you without verified evidence? Of course, we get it, you don’t require verified evidence before you believe something which is why you are gullible and fall for con jobs like Ragging Steer. Please make me eat my words and post your verified Ragging Steer trades that show that you are being successful.
What u talking about? I’m not even a ‘Ragging Steer’ customer…..I just find the blind haters of these types of services funny. Admit it – you jizzed your panties a little when you saw ‘criminal charges’ right? I’m sure (as you are so smart and not easily fooled lol) you were skeptical but a small part of you jumped for joy.
I did jizz my panties just a little bit. You had me. Congrats.
But the time I really jizzed my panties was with the RB TRO hearing wear these knuckleheads marched into Federal Court with hundreds of student “testimonials” and their students’ brokerage statements “proving” that Raging Bull students were “gettin’ rich.” It got laughed out of court as the judge took one look at the brokerage statements of Jason and Jeff and just laughed at their rediculous argument.
The death rattle of every trading educational company is when the owners must rely upon their very own students to save their butts. Same thing happened with Online Trading Academy…they had thousands of students write these massive glowing testimonials proclaiming that the Online Trading Academy trading system was better than melted butter. That didn’t work either.
Look, I am always willing to work with Jason and Jeff in the future…but they need at least a year of proven performance. Anything less and Jason can go back to teaching gym at the elementary school, and Jeff can go back to selling used cars.
Blind haters! Dimwit is too generous a characterization for you sweetypie. Read all of the evidence provided at the beginning of this review. To be a blind hater someone would have to do so without any justification. There is plenty of factual evidence to justify hating the business practices of Ragging Steer. Stop now before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.
Cream or no cream: Far more interesting is why you as “not even a customer” instinctively side with conmen, thieves and liars.
Is that because you, too, are a conman, thief, and/or liar?
Or are you a copywriter for a certain cluster of scam-based businesses 15 miles south of Hunt Valley?
(Thinking about it, that’s really the same, isn’t it. Silly me!)
RB is dead and buried. The fight is over. Newer targets are plenty juicy and ripe for plucking.
Example: Prosper Trading Academy, out of Chicago…
Oh wow, these guys are some of the worst, if not the worst that I have EVER seen. Prior to Prosper Trading Academy, they were running a scam called Trading Advantage. After that got exposed, they rebranded as Prosper Trading Academy. The lawyers that represent them are former FTC so it’s going to be difficult to deliver a killing blow.
I would estimate they are selling $10 million monthly volume. Their ad spend is enormous. Just their office rent in downtown Chicago is probably $50k monthly, and it’s packed with full-time employees. This is a big, big organization. Would absolutely love to blow that fucker up.
Let’s see what happens…
Am always curious how you pick or decide because the internet is teaming with so many investment criminals.
HeyNormLA,
That’s a good question. Indeed, there are so many scammers on the internet that it’s hard to narrow down. But I have two primary methods…
1) The contact form located at https://www.tradingschools.org/add-listing/ collects information that dumps into a database. I have thousands of companies where people have requested a review. Once a name is flagged as a minimum number, then I take a closer look and start sending anonymous emails at step one in the investigation. I never let anyone know whom I am investigating because if a company knows that I am lurking, they usually start scrubbing their website and/or become very careful what they write in emails and videos. After an initial secret investigation, I have usually collected enough information to move to phase 2. The next phase is to reach out directly to the vendor and be very open and candid about who I am, what I am looking for, etc. Hardly anyone EVER talks to me during phase 2 because my questions are very direct, like “do you actually trade with a live account?” Most of these characters do not.
Phase 2 means that I already have “the goods” and so when I finally reveal that I have been investigating, it is primarily to entrap them with their own words and statements. This technique is how the FBI conducts its criminal investigations. They first get everything they need and you have no idea they are investigating. Next, they show up very friendly with a business card and say, “Hello friend, we just want to ask you a few questions.” Since they already know the answers to the questions, they allow the criminal to lie to the agent. The lie is what gets them indicted.
2) The second way I decide whom should be investigated comes directly from the people I have written positive reviews about. The people that received a positive review have the most to lose by their competitors lying to the public about their supposed investment returns. If you get a positive review from me, this is because I have verified the performance used in the marketing materials. And so, the honest folks are quite loud about calling out the scam artists and WANT me to write about their scam artist competitors.
Anyone with a verified track record knows that earning even a positive return on investment is a difficult proposition — let alone 20%, 30%, or 40%! The best and most bright people in finance have a hard time outperforming the SP500, each and every year. The people that I write positively about need my help telling the public the truth that it’s not so easy. If we are going to change the “investment education” industry from one fraught with scams and thieves, then we need to start establishing some minimal standards of conduct. Like one year of actual verifiable investment performance. This should be the bare-bones minimum. And I don’t even care about % returns, or size of returns, I just want a positive return on one single share of stock! That is how ridiculously low the bar is set. A fucking ant should be able to hop over this.
Unfortunately, good and athletic ants are hard to find.
Another thing that drives me crazy? Why isn’t there a self-regulatory body for this industry? And yes, let’s call it an industry. It’s a multi-billion dollar per year industry. Investment education is massive and growing every year. Yet, there are no minimal standards whatsoever. A plumber must demonstrate he can clear a turd from a toilet bowl in order to call himself a plumber. A lawyer must prove he can write a brief so that he/she can eventually overbill and scam his clients. So why not some minimal standards for our industry? Like a simple test that shows you know the difference between a call and a put, a front month, a futures contract, the difference between a limit and a stop order, etc.
My ultimate goal is to establish something similar to the NFA, NASD, or even FINRA. All of these organizations are private, self-funded organizations with a tiny thread that connects to the SEC and CFTC through a reporting mechanism. They self-regulate and report to Big Brother government, but at their heart they are just trade associations that set minimum standards. Thus far, my dream has been met with so much pain and disappointment. The status quo will never change unless you kick in their front door at 3 AM and beat them over the head ham-fisted. Nothing good comes easy. But everything bad and evil in this world is found with such convenience.
Enough rants for today.
lol he picks the ones where he can get the biggest whistleblower rewards imo and that their advertising has enough holes in it for him and his lawyer wife to attack.
Or the ones that sue him for defamation lol
You mean like Michael Salerno at Black Diamond FX? https://www.whistleblower.gov/notices/2020-022
Now as far as Raging Bull, I have no whistleblower award due on that because FTC enforcement does not have a built-in whistleblower program. I took down Raging Bull for free. Because they were assholes. And they mistakenly believed that their army of high-priced lawyers could protect them, that their millions of dollars could protect them and they could out-litigate me, they mistakenly believed that I could not find and exploit their weaknesses to full effect.
Biggest whistleblower awards? What about the smaller whistleblower awards?
https://www.tradingschools.org/case-closed-len-cipolla/
Bam…
https://www.whistleblower.gov/notices/2021-009
omgosh, the “shamrock” green jacket crew formerly of Larry Levin’s (now gone from the world)Trading Advantage shamshow. At the end, Trading Advantage was also selling trading advantage logo’d baseball caps, and “trading computer” desktop systems! Talk about propping up the dead carcass of Levin’s shamshow legacy, now to sounding even greater heights of trading course selling scammery.
Looks like they made off big with the post-GME hype of those 20 million more new aspiring retail traders. (That RB was desperately trying to get back into business in time for looting the new newbie lambs, but glad they are defunct effectively now) Yeah, those are the same faces we saw years ago on Levin’s page, the “Moon” guy I remember the name, maybe the old site can be seen if one goes back and looks at the old archive.org captures. Not many shamshows are as stool retaining as Scameron in covering up every scam exposing gap, but I see that Prosper has also flooded “Trustpilot” with hundreds of their shilled , copywriter actored “testimonials”.
I was hoping Marcello Arambide of Day Trading Academy (with the ties to DayTradeToWin in the U.S.) would be exposed by tradingschools someday, but Prosper Trading seems to be the priority as they seem to be a major new shamshow looting the newbies of middle-aged gen’xrs and post-teens of wsb & gme hype. And the wealthier Brazilians probably saw the clown article and news about their country’s broker reports of 99.9% of attempting futures daytrading not even making a profit so maybe not made so much a fuss about trading scam “academies”.
Lol your comment above is premeditated business interference planning……
LOL. Has FB been handing out JD’s again?
Incorrect in all cases. I’m not even sure where the Hunt Valley is but it sounds like an exciting place!
Right now, Hunt Valley is more like Valley of Tears, as the remaining RB staff try to squeeze money out of their remaining subscribers without getting nailed by the Monitors…
lol it’s actually thriving with tons of great new gurus teaching daily at RB. They seem to be generating significant cash flow not ‘squeezing’ but gaining millions and millions of dollars from existing subscribers – they must like the services DESPITE the hiccup this year. Imagine that….I know right I mean how is that possible…..aren’t they just scammers lol
Nice response. Though I am not sure how being dragged into Federal Court, having your assets seized and placed into receivership, and being called a $175 million dollar fraud is a “minor hiccup.”
But hey, if you say so…
Regardless, I wish Jeff and Jason the best of luck. Hopefully, they learned a lesson from all of this.
Baltimore maryland
You have to admit: It sounded plausible and in character given the fraudulent mugs involved….
I hope it’s true and happening now. RB needs to be shut down as an example like OTA. baby boomers & gen-x need to be able to tell their millennial kids that they were scammed and damaged their savings by the likes of legacy OTA during the dot-com bust and latter financial crisis, and then RB during the inflated markets & covid crisis , and explain that these snakeoil pits got away with it with their shilled narrative during too much of past web decades until tradingschools and FTC action exposed the truth.
I feel to repost this: Kyle Denis was one of the worst in RagingBull. I subscribed to his Dollar Ace service, and it didn’t take me long to realize that he had designed this service to pump & dump his picks. He used to buy and sell his picks before alerting them, and of course very seldom I could get his entry and exit point prices. But the most infuriating thing was that he bragged in his sell alerts about how much profit he had made, although I was sitting at a loss. The other gurus at RagingBull were not only okay with this, but proudly were applauding in their promotions how successful Kyle Dennis was on his trading, and how many million dollars profits he had made so far this year…
Brutal reply. Absolutely brutal. Thanks for leaving this message.
Thanks for confirming the chicanery of KyleDennis. He was like a poster trader of “success” for Raging Bull. I wouldn’t be surprised if he got the idea of pump-and-dumping chatroom bagholding followers from Ross Scameron’s example.
I disagree….I really enjoyed listening to him and his picks made me $$$
Warrior Trading being subjected to an FTC investigation now – i’m guessing another Moore Special?
Excellent news. If it results in honest business practices and a realistic expectation about what you can expect from trading then that will be a win for the customers and the industry.
Finally, great news. I hope it all gets opened up and the shenanigans exposed with a plethora of documented testimony similar to the ragingbull investigation. That clown has gotten away with it so slickly for too long.
interestingly they haven’t ambushed Ross the same way they did ragingbull. They seem to be politely reaching out lol any idea why so different?
They probably haven’t finished their undercover operations yet. Also Ross has proven to be far more clever and careful in hiding his stink than Bond and RB being so jackass confident in what they could get away with in their prior yt inyourface ads.
How do you know that WT is under FTC investigation? Can you share a link please?
Apparently he sent out an email about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpnH5C8-npQ
Correct, Ross Cameron is now under FTC investigation.
At this point, I don’t want to write too much about it. But a blog post will be coming out shortly, and I will be talking about what I do know, and what I did.
Let’s just say that Ross Cameron is not very happy with Emmett Moore and TradingSchools.Org. I have a long memory and my thirst for revenge is not easily sated.
The same guy is posting about how you are wrong Emmett LOL paid shill for sure! https://youtu.be/HARyv8dciLQ
Real-time alerts returning very soon to RagingBull but with added education and the gurus will enter AFTER the alert is sent. Thanks Emmet you are actually helping them improve even further above their competition and changing the industry for the better.
That’s awesome to read.
1) They can never be accused of front running the customers.
2) There will be a track record.
The problem with this industry is that honest companies have to compete with dishonest companies. The honest companies have verifiable track records and do not front-run, while the dishonest ones use shady hypotheticals and front-run– the dynamic is that the hypothetical traders gobble up all the market share by creating unrealistic expectations for consumers. Honest companies cannot survive because they cannot sell their product.
This is why it’s vitally important that Raging Bull survives and thrives with fair rules.
If Raging Bull can do this, then I will oblige by continuing to attack their shady competitors.
I can’t agree it’s “important” RB survives. I want them to go under and get erased like OTA. Bond had done multiple defunct sites and prevaticating shamshows years before raging bull. They were fraudulent in every way they could and are only complying or pretending to now to get past all these injunctions by the FTC. Like the first honest thing they could have done was trade for themselves for self-funding and pay their supposed desperate minions and scummy car salespeople , but of course they can’t even trade their way out of paper bag to pay rent.
I whole heartedly agree dtchurn… they need to be wiped out of existence. I am not sure why Emmett seems to love these SOB’s so much. NO second chances NO redemption just total Annihilation.
yes, and the thing is. Bond already had multiple defunct sites such as “jasonbondpicks” prior to RB to the beginning of the past decade, where even Ross Scameron was a room mod at one point earlier learning the craft of fooling newbs. (Ross got archive.org to erase the old traces of warriortrading including the architect lies, but he couldn’t erase Bond’s old site showing him as a mod without the beard and fake glasses, back when supposedly he was an ‘architect’, lol: (http://web.archive.org/web/20140201134856/http://www.jasonbondpicks.com/meet-the-traders/) )
Just that Jeff Bishop seemed to acquire and patron Bond’s snakeoil business to become RB. Bishop should go back to renting out private jets or whatever he was doing before, and Bond should go back to being a P.E. teacher before he plastered his annoying teeth grinding grin-face on his jasonbondpicks earlier sites.
On a side note on a past smaller shamshow exposed by tradingschools, (but he was still big enough to be shilled heavily on Sykes’ Investimonials as we recall, and probably did a lot of damage to newbs also) Emmett also recently commented that Kavan Klein had come “clean” and admitted it was all scammy nonsense he was doing with his traducation chicanery and is now trying to get “back” into real estate and legit business. (of course he couldn’t really hack it as a trader for a living as these vendor fakes all claim, but decent enough to get back into something legit if not trading)
( http://www.tradingschools.org/review-team/#comment-6068447 )
How absurd. Trading to get out of this wouldn’t be the answer. At best these guys claim to make 10% a month – hardly enough to pay dozens of people etc any time soon.
pathetic made up shithead reaction, probably from the gollumpeety-dtchum cave. RB claimed so much profits in millions that they supposedly could do anytime. Instead they likely told their staff to be refund-deniers for their salaries.
High-lighting as a special break-thru that RB will track their reco’s after it is made to the customer is actually indicative just how dirty the were before:
That’s been standard practice for the (formerly) reputable part of the industry since at least since print publications/newsletters of the 1990’s.
So true.
Maybe I am being way too naive about RB. But I remain hopeful…that’s always been my biggest weakness. To hope that the goodness of mankind is inexorable.
I finally heard back from these idiots. They offered a refund of almost nothing. No idea what I should do next. I wonder what the FTC would make of their “classes”, demos, chat rooms, and other stuff being filled with paid actors and/or bots to make it seem like they had a few thousand people when I’m guessing it was really just a few hundred at best.
oh did those bots also buy millions of dollars worth of products at the end of the webinars as well? I’m pretty sure they did have thousands in those product launch webinars etc. also i’m sure FTC knows everything they did or did not do by now.
You didn’t notice how obvious it was? I have no idea what anyone did or did not buy outside of myself but the use of bots was blatantly obvious.
I think in order for them to make $100MM last year then the majority of people attending the sales webinars must have been real. Even then they will have had to have a very high conversion rate (which they did it seems!).
Did they make 100MM? Good, they they can afford to refund my freaking money.
I agree and they should. My point is there is a lot of false accusations and narrative surrounding them – like the one you are talking about all bots etc. That is just one of the falsehoods being spread.
RagingBull given the go ahead by the judge to start Phase 2 – advertising and bringing on new customers again. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18719211/253/federal-trade-commission-v-ragingbullcom-llc/
All outbound advertising has to be approved by the new in-house compliance counsel AND the monitor. An absolute nightmare for any direct response marketer!
Let’s see how much money they can bring in without lying and misrepresentation.
This is going to be really, really interesting to see how they navigate this. Thus far, I have yet to find any company able to survive and thrive with these sorts of constraints.
Every single ad piece needs to be groomed by the flea comb of compliance counsel. This means they have to pay an attorney to read, redline, request redraft, reread, redline, request redraft, over and over again. The cost of putting out even the most harmless ad copy is going to be in the thousands.
It’s just crazy. But hey, at least they are trying! So they do deserve some credit.
All the while…in the background are all the other scam artists without these restraints and so being competitive is going to be very difficult.
On a positive note, their recent blog articles have been quite good. The Williams article on Zero Commission Trading at Robinhood is actually a very good article.
Interesting. Thousands is peanuts though given the ROI on their ad campaigns and no not all of the original ads were deemed non-compliant with FTC guidelines…..so imo they will thrive again.
I agree that thousands or even millions are peanuts to a company awash in fraudulently gained cash. How else could one explain that a lowly SEO guy can charge a million bucks on his company credit card (on top of legitimate expenses) and steal $4+ million over the course of 4 years — without anyone noticing. (Not RB but a direct competitor 15 miles south.)
But those days are over, now that the pesky refund obligation has been reinstated by the court. That used to be a cumulative killer that year-over-year could turn a million dollar profit into a $300k loss.
Whatever they pay for in-house legal and monitor is negligible in the regular course of a scammer’s business. It’s the elimination of all the deceitful concepts, the selective use of testimonials, and the cheating of buyers by neglecting to tell them the “free” course they just paid $4.95 s/h for on their credit for also locked them into a nonrefundable $1k trading service subscription that auto renews, but they turned of the auto-renew button.
And as the Tina.org complaint to the FTC against Agora shows, scammers can’t exist without lies. Even when tied into the knots of a stipulated order, they will continue to do the only thing they’re good at: Lying.
RB can’t exist as an exorbitantly profitable business with the Feds up their ass.
What $4.95 ‘free course?’ I must have missed that…..RagingBull did that? I still don’t understand this auto-renew accusation – ive been a subscriber on and off for 5 years. Cancelling etc. was never a problem.
Another look at RB’s future:
I have frequently referenced FTC v. Agora Financial et al. as what I consider the “best”-case outcome for RB. (Conceptually, RB is like the slow-witted, bastard offspring of Agora-style marketing and misrepresentation, with a number of (former) employees having had long histories w/in The Agora Companies or, as they now have started to call themselves, Monument & Cathedral Holdings, LLC.)
The FTC managed to tie the entire holding company, kit and caboodle, with each of the 80 subsidiaries it has jurisdiction over, into a stipulated order in which they agreed to stop making fraudulent claims, pretty much making themselves the FTC’s bitch for the next 20 years. Before and after that order, most of the Baltimore-based subsidiaries have been shedding staff like your least favorite maths teacher shed dandruff back in high school, down 40-50+% year-over-year.
But the watchers are still watching: TINA.org apparently has just filed another complaint with the FTC, alleging that numerous subsidiaries bound by the order have violated it literally hundreds of times even since February. And not only the named defendants, but additional, more prominently acting companies:
https://www.truthinadvertising.org/agora-still-using-deception-dark-patterns-ensnare-seniors/
This is exactly what RB can expect. Settling and agreeing to stipulated terms now is the least expensive outcome of the ongoing litigation. But once they do, the pressure will remain on, beating any spark of fun, joy, and money out of the system.
Almost makes you want to feel sorry for them.
Just almost.
i wish this damn shithole would just shut down for good already
Looks like the FTC’s Amended Complaint has considerably expanded its focus on Kyle Dennis.
Interestingly, the relief requested now is less harsh and restrictive than the “Bull is back!” state of affairs under the Monitor. The longer RB fights this, the more money they flush down the crapper, with no upside at all.
My prediction: RB settles w/ the FTC out of court before December and accept an FTC v. Agora Financial-style stipulated order that pretty much embeds the FTC up their rear ends for the next 20 years.
interestingly they still don’t give any evidence that Kyle isn’t a profitable trader telling the truth about his trading and story, right ?
“Profitability” is not at issue. False representations are.
Yes, but for years people like Emmett have screamed that Kyle Dennis is lying and not really a profitable trader…..that he is making up his track record etc. It seems like that has been defamation….for example that idiot from RagingBull Scam website (Sydney Budina) has said that about Dennis for a year or two. Clearly just bitter defamation and the investigation is showing that he is actually a profitable trader etc.Could Dennis sue for these false allegations ?
There is a post somewhere in all of these comments that details the proof that shows that the Ragging Steer traders where not profitable. I assume that Dennis was included in that. In any case he would have to prove that his trading record was what he claimed which is unlikely considering how much they exaggerated their trading success.
The FTC hasn’t mentioned Kyle’s track record anywhere its all focused on how difficult it is to replicate for subs – Bishop and Bond have had everything broken down in great detail but Kyle’s trading results are totally ignored. I’m 100% sure the FTC will have done the same scrutiny on him and would have paraded it around in a similar way they are doing with the JB’s. Not a peep from then in any of the documents indicating that he made up his track record or was faking trades etc.
Defamation is a stretch. Dennis would have to prove that Emmit, Sydney and others were negligent in their claims, ie, that contrary proof was readily made available. As far as I can tell, Kyle hasn’t posted account statements that would prove the statements made by counter-parties to be false.
True. But then if I accused someone all over the internet of being a crook and a child rapist despite having no evidence and ruining their reputation…..does that work the same? I mean the victim in that case couldn’t prove that they weren’t those things either!
Certainly no proof online would be readily available. Given that those mentioned above were actively engaged in ‘taking RB down’ they could be considered to be acting with malicious intent.
When did I ever pick on “Liddle Kyle?” If anything, Kyle was the prostitute that got pimped out by Jeff and Jason. Kyle made a few bucks, no arguments there. But Raging Bull latched onto his track record and marketed that track record as the track record of everyone.
Poor liddle Kyle had to work the street corner wearing high heels and a mini-skirt emblazoned with the Raging Bull logo across the buttocks.
Doesn’t anyone remember when poor liddle Kyle supposedly won the new Porsche in a “trading contest” and it turned out to be a leased car?
But then my question is WHY didn’t you ever attack Kyle? Surely, his story is just as outrageous sounding as the rest of the people you go after? On the face of it he would seem like the prime target of your ‘reviews’. Is it perhaps because there was nothing to be gained (e.g. money) from Kyle because he wasn’t the owner of the company?
Shouldn’t you have been warning everyone about how much of a fraud Kyle must be? After all his claims sound more outrageous than Bond’s or even Bishops. He doesn’t offer proof and says he turned $15k into Millions so why not write about that? It’s suspicious imo that you chose to ignore him but attack all the OWNERS of other businesses that were making way less outrageous sounding claims.
every time I got ahold of someone for refund it has been like the movie the money pit “two weeks”. As for the monitor I have not even got a response. That’s who is supposed to help me. Why are we having to request it? It’s a time thing who had the extra time to add courses on my account that I didn’t even ask for or want or is that some kind of a cool trick to say that I got equipment service for you guys don’t pay me I feel this is unacceptable
Raging Bullshit we should even have to ask the factors of the untruth and outright bogus claims is enough to out of the invalidate any kind of agreement as far as a refund policy nothing was set up ahead of time in case I thought about getting refund some bullshit about instant Knowledge from Analytics what a little weasel Tell Dennis I want my $1,499 back from the dollar Ace Program that wasn’t worth Jack Squad Bullseye trades with decent but I guess if you throw enough darts even a blind man hits a bullseye just do the right thing and issue a refund and stop being difficult can the Judge say You’re supposed to give us a refund a pretty sure I saw that in there I felt like I got screwed over ever since I signed up for and I regretted it right away that’s not how it once you feel when dealing with someone in business unless you’re just don’t give a fuck about anybody but your own pocketbook I guess it’s cool I’m getting sick of this shit man it’s going in circles here you’re going to pay or not if not just let it be known your Thief okay cool whatever I won’t ask for nothing if I’m told I can get a refund and have to do all this weird shit dude just do what’s right
I’m in the same boat. All I want is my refund. I can’t get a decent response from anyone. Seriously thinking of just e-mailing them and the monitors every day until they address this.
Finally!
Hey there!
Thank you for reaching out.
I hope you are having a fantastic day – and I appreciate your inquiry.
Your renewal has been turned off.
This means at the end of your activation period, you will not be renewed and therefore effectively cancelled.
If you’d like more detail on RagingBull reopening and answers to FAQs, please see our welcome back page here: https://ragingbull.com/welcome-back/
Thank you for your patience in this matter and I hope you have a great day!
Why is their website still up?
because someone blew the judge
So much for timelines. Ragingbull e-mailed me and said they would get back to me by 5/24/2021. Affiliated Monitors e-mailed me and said I would hear something by 5/25/2021. BOTH have blown off their promised timelines. Now what? Contact the judge? What does one do when the both the firm and monitor are not following orders?
They are still working through the queue. Hang in there. We have 4k emails currently and again we are working with legal and the monitor on how to respond to many of them. I am sorry we blew through this timeline but it is a process. Your email will be answered.
I do appreciate the irony that now it is RB who’s being relentlessly flooded with emails, not the prospects/subscribers…. Used to be the other way round.
That is actually pretty funny. Had to tame down their relentless barrage of marketing emails huh.
Oh yeah, this is the company that definitely wasn’t involved in fraudulent activities flooded with emails from customers, presumably asking to be signed up for more “valuable” services, not asking for refunds. Oh no because you know Bond, Bishop and Dennis are the real deal, except of course that they lose money with their BS trading system. 4K of satisfied customers. Speaks volumes doesn’t it.
Stop lying to them. I see the conversations on Slack. I know what goes on and I know that RB is doing EVERYTHING in their power to blow people off for as long as possible and avoid giving back a single cent of money to anyone who they screwed over.
Sounds like something that should be subpoenaed by the FTC….
I don’t think that’s the case at all. The monitors are still reviewing our refund policy. Once that is complete hopefully, today then we’ll be able to release the queue and start to refund people that are eligible.
RB is currently working under EXACTLY what the legal parties are allowing us to do. We will abide by the court order and refund anyone that is eligible for a refund. We can’t wait to do it, we literally can’t do it until we get the green light from the monitors.
I’m sorry you feel that way about the company.
Still haven’t heard anything except “Don’t bug us”.
Quick Update for you –
On Monday we should have more clarity when it comes to refunds, how to process them, and the rules around them.
I’ve seen comments that say “We should have always had this” – we did. We’ve issues millions in refunds. But since the TRO we have had all technology stripped from us including every relationship with every vendor. And to get that back is tough – and time consuming. We also now to have to deal with a monitor on every thing we say so – even issuing refunds which seems very straight forward, has to be reviewed.
You should also seem free eletter email rolling out next week. If you want to unsubscribe please do so – if you have issue you can contact CS as we have 10-12 reps now working in the office. Our queue is currently 2000 emails – and at about 100 emails per day per user you can do the math on the turn around time.
I appreciate this forum to talk to you guys about RB and it’s future. And trust me – I understand the vitriol but I will tell you that thinking the most nefarious things about what RB is – is completely inaccurate. Mistakes could have been made. Processes may been broken – but at no point did we have “policy” to rip anyone off. I can stake my own personal reputation on that.
If you are billed a renewal we honor refunding that for 30 days and often times more if that extenuating circumstances. We have auto renew turned on because we have LOTS of happy subscribers that don’t want their service interrupted.
If you have any questions – I’m happy to try to answer them in a straight forward manner. But some of the things I read on here are conspiracy level tinfoil hat theories. If the company was fraudulent – trust me – we wouldnt be here having this conversation.
I called and asked for a refund many times but got shuffled to this bully who told me “no” and strong armed me into backing down. Yes, you have a policy to rip people off because you hired a bull dog to yell at them until they back away.
So many pretty words. I want my refund and then I never ever what to hear your names again.
Don’t bother with RB CS and go through the Independent Monitor, via email at: RagingBullMonitor@AffiliatedMonitors.com via telephone at: 617-807-1161.
The court orders are that those customers whose initial purchase agreement included a refund clause need to be refunded. The technically may exclude any offer that either was silent on refund policy or expressly excluded refunds.
But I understand the IM has some discretion. Especially since RB did not fulfill their contractual obligation to you between September and April. Offering an extended subscription, other service, or other novation to the terms requires the consent of both parties AND separate consideration under US contract law.
I contacted both Affiliated Monitors and Ragingbull. Neither has responded by the date they themselves set. So what now? Contact the judge? The monitors aren’t doing the job they said they would do apparently.
I figured Ragingbull would weasel out of my refund with a technicality because I do not believe mine had a refund clause. What recourse do I have?
I think you may be okay, just one of thousands of satisfied customers requesting refunds at this time. To be safe, I’d email your observation to the prosecuting attorneys at the FTC, emails are appended to the signatories at the end of the initial complaint.
What do you mean “if the company was fraudulent?” Are you seriously asking anyone to believe that the conditions placed upon them indicate that they weren’t operating in a fraudulent way? Beggars belief!
I have sent several emails asking that my account and my credit card info deleted.
Crickets! I refuse to call those bastards. Any other suggestions to light a fire under these jerks? Seems like they never learned from their furlong! Business as usual can anyone get less than an F from the BBB?
Furlough….spell check. Sigh.
They are like that guy who beats his wife and then promises that it’ll never happen again, but it will, and it does because that’s who he is. And dishonest, fraudulent scumbags are who these guys are.
Contact the court-appointed monitor, who’s site states:
However, RagingBull.com customers who also want to submit a copy of their refund request to the Monitor, or who want to communicate with the Monitor, can do so in one of two ways:
• via email at: RagingBullMonitor@AffiliatedMonitors.com
• via telephone at: 617-807-1161
I e-mailed both RB support and Affiliated Monitors my request for a full refund. I’ve received 2 e-mails from AM just letting me know they have my e-mail (1 per week) and giving a target date of 5/25/2021 for RB to act on my e-mail. I received an e-mail today from RB stating that they have received my e-mail and will respond with a “resolution” by 5/25/2021. The “resolution” had better be a refund but I’m afraid they will try to worm their way out of it.
Thanks everyone!
I just want these a-holes to answer at least freaking one email! I have sent 8 nasty emails and they have not responded! Ok, ok..,I have now created a new BBB rating. Double minus F rating! Way to go Nutted Steer, you win the turkey!
Hey guys – I see a lot here about CS and responses. I work at RB. And i’ll give you the scoop. When we opened up we have to work with the monitor and the lawyers on a refund policy. That refund policy is still being made. And they are going to honor every refund the court says they have to. And also make sure that they can work with customers for missed service time and offering other services for free.
They have over 75000 customer and millions of people on their email lists. So when they opened up they got thousands of emails and they have few resources to open back up and answer them all in a timely manner. Every time you send ANOTHER email it slows down the process. I can assure you they have every intention of answering the emails but please be patient. They aren’t trying to scam anyone. They aren’t a fraud. They are overrun with emails and calls. Please be patient.
That’s all I can say. There is no conversation being had about not answering or servicing customers.
I guess you have a point…I can imagine that combing through terabytes of emails and all sorts of angry rhetoric is extremely difficult. First of all, thanks for coming onto the forum and addressing the issues, and giving your perspective as to what is happening behind the scene. It shows a remarkable amount of candor and it shows that you “get it.”
Regardless of all the negative commentary that I often post about Raging Bull, and the bad blood between Jason, Jeff, and myself…hopefully we can put it all behind us and look forward to a kinder, gentler, more transparent Raging Bull in the future.
In particular, a Raging Bull where the performance of the moderators is disclosed. Transparency is a good thing. I remain hopeful that Raging Bull moves in this direction.
If Raging Bull can do this…it will be a watershed moment for the entire industry. In fact, they could set a new standard and shift the entire dynamic of the entire industry away from continued entropy and disorder into one with basic standards of acceptable conduct, transparency, and fairness.
I hope that Jeff and Jason can see the massive implications of the path forward. They have a golden opportunity and will find no greater ally than TradingSchools.Org in this regard.
It is time to end the war. Let’s create a better future together, reshape the landscape of this industry, and be allies in this regard. We can do this. Let’s do this.
Part of me wants to reject what you just said. Like anyone who was scammed, I want scammers punished. That is the gut reaction. So really I want them to give back those 20 million they took in “unearned distributions” which should be enough to cover refunds to members and pay staff. Raging Bull can then close down and everyone – staff and owners – can go and find (honest) jobs. Staff can apply a bit more common sense to finding new sales jobs, rather than claiming they did not recognise scam as obvious as this . Raging Bull wives can take off their homeless cat fur coats and work as cleaners, plenty of demand for house cleaning from well-to-do Americans, we in UK certainly pay well for it.
But on the other hand, the whole point of what you are trying to do is to bring reform to the industry. The industry is not likely to go away. So the only way is to make it more honest. That is what you are striving for. Personally – I dont know if it is even possible. But I can understand it. Well done for extending a hand. Like you say this is an opportunity. Let see if Bishop and Bond realize it. Or if they can afford it.
It’s important to remember that they STILL have to deal with the trial and the FTC’s case against them. So by no means are they going to walk away with no penalties. It’s going to be harsh. The FTC is going to get their pound of flesh.
These types of cases usually play out, one of two ways.
The first and most typical is that the company simply folds up. The owners and employees scatter and start something new, usually with competing interests. Assets and restitution are hard to obtain because of bankruptcy laws and money is easy to hide. Although this might seem like the best option for consumers, as it gives them some solace that the object of their anguish is dead. But it doesn’t really solve the underlying problem.
The second is far less typical. This is where the company attempts to survive. Remember, the brand is so damaged and beaten up that to even contemplate this option is the far more difficult option. You have thousands of angry consumers, banking institutions that will not deal with the brand, a huge fine, sanctions, restitution, an army of lawyers to pay, a court-ordered receivership (baby sitter) that watches everything and needs to be paid, difficulties finding talented people that will work under the brand, the list is long and arduous. This is the far, far more difficult option and nearly impossible to actually execute.
But Jeff and Jason have decided to take the second option.
Turning them into allies and figureheads for reform is extremely important.
Trust me, Jeff and Jason have been suffering and this experience has been acutely painful, costly, and terribly embarrassing. They have had their names run through the mud and their reputations have been utterly destroyed. When they drive out of their driveway, the next-door neighbor peeks out of their windows and says “Oh that scammer.” When they go to the store, the grocery clerk looks at the bagger and murmurs “fucking scammers.” When they walk into the local bank, the tellers all murmur “that’s that stock scammer that got his accounts frozen.”
I know how all of this stuff plays out because I went through it myself. There must be an avenue of reform, even for the worst of us, grace must exist.
Lets see what happens.
Perhaps because of what you went through, you are a bigger person than I am. You are right. A way back must exist. I hope every idiot who ever said “Emmett Moore is a former felon so he cannot possibly ever contribute anything good” is reading this.
I am surprised on how soft you have gotten.
FUCK THEM they need to burn and be totally Annihilated.
Pay Back Everything, No forgiveness complete wipe off the face of the earth.
“Allies and figureheads” Have you gone MAD?
the landscape is totally different now, they will not be missed They just need to go away permanently.
very surprised at your suggestions .. amazed actually.
Wallstreetbets now rule the roost these guys are dead dinosaurs that need to be punished then erased from memory.
geesh Emmett don’t go getting all feels now. Their jugular exposed go for the KILL
Hey BigLou,
Raging Bull is already dead. What’s the point of poking your sword into an already vanquished enemy? The fights over.
Trust me, these guys have taken a gigantic beating. Their lives are completely destroyed. The money has been taken. And whatever remains will be taken by either the lawyers defending them or the FTC trial.
The jugular has already been torn from their necks. They are bled out. Totally defeated.
But this also presents an opportunity…what if they come back as something better? Something respectable and honest? I know, it’s a long shot. But it’s really all that’s left. Remember, I used to be just as bad, if not worse. And I reinvented myself into something a little less disgusting.
Reforming these guys represents the ultimate victory. And besides, there are plenty of heads to hunt in this target-rich environment! So many juicy battles ahead, not enough time.
“Reforming” is probably not what’s happening.
More likely, the marketers and copywriters responsible for propagating the scam in the first place (at the direction of JB/JB) have slithered on to more lucrative pastures: Based on the Monitor’s first report, there is no out-bound marketing permitted in the current phase. And without carrion to gorge on, the vultures move on.
(Given that the largest employer of vultures in the nearby region also has been condemned to find religion, I doubt that they head south.)
It also means that no new money is coming in at RB, business has to be bankrolled by the principals, from their own assets.
Almost 7 months into not making money, I bet teaching PE at some urban high school has started to look good.
Ragging Steer couldn’t create an auto response email with a ticket number that went out to customers explaining all of that?
Every email and auto responder has to be approved by the monitor. We are working closely with them to get through the process. It is tedious as we figure out how to get back up and running under the courts rules. So they are slow to approve things and the landscape of customer needs change every day. Everything from How to issue refunds, how to turn off auto renew, how to unsubscribe, who is eligible for refunds etc…
We really do love our customers. Every conversation every day is how to work through the queue and issue refunds where they are needed and extend services and offer free services to make customers happy.
All I can say is that there are 50+ people coming back to work to make trading products and education material viable for the trading audience.
I appreciate the lowered guns. It helps have a logical conversation. Many of us read this blog and lots of things that have been said are simply untrue or just so overboiled that they have vitriol attached – and rightly so – but they are still factually not true. Jeff and Jason care about this business and are working to do the right thing diligently ever day. I would not be here – and neither would the 50+ employees if the conversations weren’t holistic and on the up and up.
As to your question about ticket numbers and systems – all assets for RB were frozen and we lost all our tech and lots of data and right now we’re trying to get to the point where we can issue refunds and deliver product every day. That’s the first goal.
I think you need to distinguish the presence from the past. All current (apparent) good intentions do not extend to altering the past.
” Everything from how to issue refunds, how to turn off auto renew, how to unsubscribe, who is eligible for refunds etc…” should have been in place all along and because it was not, it is now having to be monitored and is therefore slow and complicated. Auto renew should never have been on. How to unsubscribe should always have been clear and doable. Refunds should always have been honoured. When members were effectively prevented from unsubscribing and their cards charged again and again – this was not “actually not true”. You didn’t ” really love your customers” then. So watch what you say.
Also a problem of mathematics. How do you get penny stocks to work for everyone? They only work with pump and dump. When you say that Jeff and Jason care about the business – let us hope it is true now but sure as hell wasn’t in the past. Otherwise they would not have skimmed 10 million each just before legal trouble started (source: court documents).
But yes like Emmett says let us look to the future. It is decent of you to post in a completely different way from most defenders of Raging Bull on this forum. Hopefully it reflects a real change in the company.
As a past customer of RB, I never had an issue with canceling a subscription. Automatic renewal is standard with every subscription service in every industry like streaming services, gyms, magazines, web hosting etc.
When I canceled various RB services I had bought I was able to do it via the settings and was never billed again so I don’t know where you are getting all those claims from but it was certainly not my experience. As to refunds, if I remember correctly it was written in the terms of the services I bought that they do not offer refunds. I bought the service having full knowledge of that as any customer should.
When you know those terms and you decide to buy something it is 100% your choice and responsibility.
RB is just something I tried on my way to becoming a profitable trader (like many other courses, services I bought) but eventually, I found no benefit in it so I canceled and moved on. I really do not understand all the hate they get. It seems like people cannot take responsibility for their own purchases anymore and cry ‘scam’ whenever they’re not satisfied with something.
When you go looking for shortcuts and easy fixes you should expect subpar results (like a stock pick service). That does not mean that it is the vendor’s fault. They provide a product that may or may not of the best quality but that is irrelevant. The marketplace is supposed to include everything, good or bad. It is up to the consumer to make that choice. Just like you wouldn’t expect to pay budget prices for a 5-stat hotel and then when you don’t get the 5-star hotel experience cry out ‘scam’.
Just the 2 cents of a very firm believer in the free market and personal responsibility…
Don’t do this. RB is just starting to make a little better job of it and like Emmett always says – the starting point is to admit it to yourself and stop looking for excuses.
Your experience apparently is very different from experience of hundreds of people who had their credit cards charged after they unsubscribed. Or wanted to unsubscribe and were jerked around in circle from phone number to which there was no response to email which told them to phone the same number. Where am I getting it all from? From people who reported this and it was enough for CFTC to start the investigation. Why are you asking me? Why not just ask CFTC for their reasons? Since it escaped their attention that you were OK cancelling.
I am not even talking about the quality of service which cleary you did not find valuable since you unsubscribed. Perhaps this was a while ago while it was still possible to do. Clearly at one point it turned into even bigger scam and they started fibbing and ignoring demands for termination of membership.
You are right that auto renewal is the norm but so is the ability to terminate it. Amazon recently mishandled my service cancellation. I phoned, waited for one minute and red them the riot act. They refunded, gave me £10 on top and apologised profusely. Can you imagine Amazon not answering the phone?
The capitalist crap you seem to be quoting comes down to: blame the customer for their stupidity (since they believed the advertising and bought the product). Nothing can be further from the truth. As I said once before, as a descendant from a family that suffered greatly in the hands of communists, free society does not equate to dishonesty, lying and fraud. Or it would not be free. If I sell cheap houses that are not safe and will tumble down and kill someone, it is not their fault or responsibility. It is mine. They are not all builders or architects, they weren’t to know.
I’m sorry but you cannot compare a matter of physical safety (such as the construction of a house) to a trading education site/stock pick service just like you cannot compare a medical drug to a book. The level of responsibility that a vendor needs to bear varies greatly with each kind of business. Real life is not all black and white as many simple-minded people seem to believe.
Having run several businesses in my life I can tell you that you can offer the best service, provide exactly what you advertise and do everything for your customer and you will STILL get people who will be impossible and negative about literally everything. Now multiply that to a business the size of RB with hundreds of thousands of clients and I guarantee you there will be at least a thousand in there that will be not be satisfied no matter what whereas 99% of the other customers will encounter no issues at all. Tell me, is this a reason to shut down a business?
In my experience as a business owner, a customer who had a bad experience or is just negative in general is at least 10 times more likely to leave a negative review than a customer who had a positive experience is likely to leave a positive one. The reputation of a business gets, therefore, very negatively skewed. Similar to how the news will focus almost exclusively on every bad thing happening in the world and make no mention at all of everything that is working perfectly well in day-to-day life. Just some food for thought.
You hit the nail on the head. Not everyone can build houses. You need knowledge and responsibilty, like for many other businesses. You will still get some people complaining – that is the reality.
But anyone – literally anyone – can open a stock picking service without registering as CTA. With no knowledge that they have to prove first, and no responsibility. Just as long as they can finance the internet advertising machine. And you will get not some complaining, you will get many. Enough for CFTC to get interested.
What’s the point? I don’t know what kind of business you are running or used to. But hopefully with this knowledge you will steer clear from trading ideas that never actually worked for you so they won’t for others. Or they will complain. In large numbers. Just some food for thought.
Looks like you missed every point I was making entirely. That’s okay, hopefully, someone else reading my posts will understand. Just wanted to share my opinion and experience. Have a nice day.
I haven’t missed anyhing. I just disagree and evidence it. Have a nice day.
Yeh you’re just bitter and anti-capitalist. The complainers were just a small fraction of the total customer base. With over 200,000 customers over the years, even 1% is 2,000 whiners. All businesses have them and this is the same.
God help us if this is the future of capitalism. My grandad will be turning in his grave. For the last time – people have had their credit cards charged against their permission. Whiners ??? One per cent ???
Capitalism’s foundation is not fraud, deception, & misrepresentation. You must have misread your Adam Smith. Indeed, the deceptive over-promising of benefits, the under-delivery on them (with garbage goods), and then the prosecution of those who dare complain that they have been duped is a hallmark of a planned economy (i.e., socialism). Ask any Soviet emigrant.
For that matter, peddling stocks/options is not really a core exercise of capitalism, either, but a parasitic rent-seeking by-product. (“Trading” produces no added value to a product.) Neither is peddling advice on how to peddle based on deceptive promises.
I find your observation interesting, however, as I have noted that Bill Bonner (who pretty much invented this entire industry and is still its largest beneficiary) is now openly apologistic of Bernie Madoff. After all, his victims “only lost 25%”.
Of course, Bonner now also has the FTC embedded in his business, had to rename his core business into something ludicrous, and will be reporting to the Feds for the next 20 years…
Quote from my answer to Mac above:
“The capitalist crap you seem to be quoting comes down to: blame the customer for their stupidity (since they believed the advertising and bought the product). Nothing can be further from the truth. As I said once before, as a descendant from a family that suffered greatly in the hands of communists, free society does not equate to dishonesty, lying and fraud. Or it would not be free. “
It appears you misunderstood me. I am disagreeing with Nads’ idea of capitalism as “anything allowed”. My ancestors took care of their workers. That is why my grandad will be turning is his grave. Fortunately most capitalists will not be like Nads.
As soon as someone trots out the “you’re a socialist or you’re anti-capitalism” accusation it’s a better than even bet that we’re dealing with someone who hasn’t got a grasp on the meaning of those words. Socialism provides things for the benefit of society. It is needed to soften the profit at any cost aspect of capitalism. Societies with people who aren’t afraid of words or who have a population that understands what words mean are amongst the happiest in the world, they are also countries that have chosen a middle ground between the extremes of socialism and capitalism. https://www (dot) gfmag (dot) com/global-data/non-economic-data/happiest-countries
Whiners? I tried the service, it didn’t work, I asked for a refund. I don’t want them to “return” anything I lost because I suspect my actual real money losses were nominal. What I want is a refund. Period. I’m not “whining”. The product did not work for me therefore, I want a refund. That’s like saying people that want their money back on a defective product are just “whiners”. Amazon does it no questions asked. New Egg does it, no questions asked. Or at least, I’ve never had any problems.
I had a rather expensive Corsair mouse for my computer die on me 2 years after I bought it. I was floored when the company said to send it to them. I did and received a new one. I didn’t even expect that, I was just asking about an upgrade to the coding that killed the mouse fully expecting to be told that it was permanently dead. But they did it anyway, even though I pointed out that I really wasn’t eligible – I probably screwed up the update. THAT’S customer service.
Pretty words. I. Want. My. Money. Back. Period. I’ve been trying since last year. That’s all I want. They should refund everyone that wants one with no “eligibility”. That’s crap.
The current RB employee’s narrative should give pause to those die-hard RB fans who still claim that “the judge was not impressed” by the FTC’s case:
Consider that every step in the court-appointed Independent Monitor’s process is a reflection of the judge’s order.
Yes, the vendors of various necessary services (cc processing, email processing etc.) have been lost and must now be brought on again. But look at the Receiver’s report and you will see that RB was already going through vendors like a Democrat at a free-for-all Chinese buffet. Vendors had been dropping out left and right bc. of the extreme amount of refund requests and of spam complaints (those are euphemistically called “Deliverability Issues” in the industry.)
The only vendors happy with RB were my learned colleagues suing unhappy customers into keeping their mouths shut and their complaints to themselves.
The fact that the court-appointed monitor takes so long and has to approve any scrap of text that goes out to the customer means that the court has little to no trust in the business and compliance processes of RB as they were handled prior to December 2020.
The amount of revenues and profits (if any) generated by RB under the independent monitor (say, from July to December 2021), scaled to size and accounting for reputational damage, will also provide a benchmark against which the results of prior years will be measured: Q3 & Q4 revenues will be what you can make if you run an honest business without lying to your prospects and without denying refunds where they are due.
My bet: They’ll be lucky if they crack a mill in gross revenues by Jan. 1.
lol they already cracked it in 24 hours from yesterday – selling lifetimes to existing subscribers. You really are retarded lol hate to think how bad a job u did for your previous clients.
Do you have some evidence to support your claim?
… then they have only $99 million to go after picking the low-hanging fruit, eh?
I always stayed away from conmen as clients, so it’s hard to speculate how bad a job I could have done. Prefer myself a good, clean drug dealer over a slimy white-collar criminal. Less ethical grey tones, if you know what I mean.
Is this even legal? Coming here and basically telling the customers not to send emails and hope they will be afraid to follow up on their request. I will forward this to the monitors and the investigators…
That’s not what the RB employee did.
come on dude he came on and was super helpful and polite – I found his input useful and enjoyed the less hostile tone. Takes a strong person to come on this hate filled cess pool and carefully explain that stuff.
Good evening shill.
Thanks BD!
got a response from the monitor. This is what I responded..
I have sent at least 8 emails to RB asking that my account be cancelled! My emails were nice at first and in the end I am getting really pissed off by their silence!
One of the reasons that they were flagged was by their F rating by the BBB!
I read the horror stories and realize how fraudulent these people are!
I cannot cancel my account on their website before or after the court action!
This is garbage!
Please help me get my personal information off of their books!
Did you know even during their shutdown they had the balls to send me a notice that they were going to charge my account?
I am utterly speechless that they are allowed to continue to operate.
Please help me,
Dispute with your credit card company/bank.
So, i’m reading this site and its crazy! Emmett Moore the convicted felon going on about how scams are bad etc!? Then BoonDoggle is a professional liar (lawyer) is critizing all stock alerts services as well!? Are you guys for real? Is this a spoof site? Do you guys realize how ridiculous and ironic this is!?
Oh, look at li’l Petey, pretending to be all tough and grown up. Adorable.
You have missed the point entirely. This site reviews stock alert and education services for their quality based of verified evidence. A key part of that evidence is can they demonstrate that they make real profits trading what they are selling. In Ragging Steers case that’s a resounding “No they can’t.” Criticism of Ragging Steer is justified for this failing this criteria and for the way they have treated customers.
Go look them up on the BBB before you bother to even talk about this site!
speaking as a ragingbull employee… we may be “reopen” but trust me we’re not making any money. they’re expecting people to work for free right now, and the target date for paying us had been pushed back like 3 or 4 times already.
Are people being loyal and doing it? That is what is needed for good to triumph over evil (Moore).
Why don’t you go ahead and buy life time subscriptions to 3 or 4 products?
This way, RB employees can eat, your expense will be minuscule compared to all the profits you’ll be making, and you can prove to Emmett just how much you value the services.
I am already lifetime Elite member.
Buy another one!
I’l buy another one if you record a video saying ‘Hi, I am a professional liar for a living and I suck Moore’s ding dong’ then post it here.
Why is it that inability to give an intelligent and sensible answer resorts to vulgarity? If you have something to say, say it like a man. Don’t reduce yourself to this.
I appreciate and somewhat understand your interest in other males’ genitalia (and do I have a doozie!) — what you’re saying is that you’re not considering spending any more money on RB products.
Fair enough, I wouldn’t either, considering the potentially foreshortened shelf life of any lifetime subscription…
I can accept but don’t share your interest in other males’ genitalia, but to each his own.
So what you’re saying you won’t be buying additional RB products. Fair enough, I wouldn’t either. Especially considering the compromised shelf life of RB lifetime subscriptions…
PeterS surely since you are a lifetime Elite member you have learned enough that you no longer need the Ragging Steer training wheels and you can make millions of dollars on your own with the knowledge you have learned. Gillian will help you. She’s provided her email so you can contact her and you’ll also be making 20K a month. I mean she wouldn’t lie about that would she? Although she has been very quiet since being invited to send Emmett proof of that claim.
Being loyal! For good to triumph over evil! These shysters have taken millions from the company and they’re asking people to work for free! Talk about evil and lack of loyalty.
Ugg. The paid employees have really taken this the hardest. Am really sorry you guys/gals have been made to suffer.
The devilish part of this business is that the skills required and developed in running these scams do not translate into any other industry. People trap themselves in jobs that leave them stranded and condemned to move from one scam company to the next unless they completely change careers.
A prosecutor I know (with considerable experience in this business) uses to say it’s like dealing drugs on the street, “only difference, you don’t have to keep your stash up your ass.”
So true. People trap themselves in these terrible jobs. But the “trap” does not happen overnight. Its a slow corruption as most enter the field because the business has the initial veneer of legitimacy, but over time the employees start to realize it’s all a scam. But they cannot or will not walk away because the money is easy. Eventually, the scam, like RB gets shut down and the employees are encouraged to blame the customers, the whistleblowers, the FTC, the blogs, the big government, the ‘whatever’ excuse they contrive to justify what has happened.
But the truth is the employees of RB need to first accept that RB was simply an investment scam from day 1. And no amount of fixing or dressing up a scam business is ever going to make it legitimate. Many will become cynical as they have been basting in the corruption and they will simply accept that “this is how the world works” and “I might as well get mine” attitude.
But this is so wrong. I wish these employees would only understand my story. I got started in the boiler room industry at age 18 out of desperation. I was slowly corrupted and become cynical. Pretty soon I didn’t care about anyone else but “getting mine” and I didn’t care who got hurt. Wow, what a mistake. What a horrible life mistake. All that wasted time in my life spent in boiler rooms running scams chasing that easy dollar. Ten years of wasted time.
Sure, the civil regulators came and shut me down several times. But the civil regulators, like the FTC can only slap your wrist and give you a fine. It wasn’t until the FBI showed up and put me in a concrete box did I finally start to understand how deep down the rabbit hole I had traveled.
Any former RB employees out there need to understand that your future is very bleak with these guys. And it will remain equally as bleak with the next group of scammers offering “get rich quick” investment nonsense. It all ends badly. It always ends badly. I wish these RB employees would wake up.
It is quite tragic because, in general, the pay of the average marketer, editorial assistant, and especially customer service rep in this industry really isn’t all that great to begin with. The only ones raking in the dough are the top copy writers and the gurus.
All are immersed in a hermetically sealed echo chamber, where everyone is busy blowing smoke up the apex parasites’ collective asses — not based on what they are actually doing for the customers, but only on how many people they can swindle into buying mostly mediocre products with outlandish lies.
People actually start believing they are part of a legitimate business, until they realize at some point that no-one, least of all anyone in the regulated financial industry, even knows what they do and who they are.
It is instructive to read the reviews of current and former employees from companies in this industry on Glassdor etc. — especially those companies who’ve had the nuns of the FTC whack their fingers with the regulatory rulers.
Suddenly, all the free shrimp cocktail, parties, happy hours paid for by defrauded customers are gone, the regulators are riding herd on what they can claim in their marketing, and the products suddenly have to stand on their own. And mostly can’t. And your resume is stained forever by a series of companies known for nothing else but their fraudulent advertising…
Well written.
Agreed this is well written about this traducation scam industry itself about what these staff do to sustain these guru scams. Some examples. I recall calling up an options education “office” and the secretary said she was “learning” herself as well. I asked about the “real” account of what was shown in the room, and I barely heard the guru quietly tell her to say “3 million” live account. Of course later on in their yt recorded videos it was shown that their ToS accounts were in the paper-sim mode as whoever recorded them got sloppy and showed the part where any Thinkorswim user could tell it was the paper version. Geez, I wonder how many times these secretaries always say they are “learning” too, year after year. And remember “Crystal” the actress instructed by Ross Scameron, how trading was going to help her and her child with extra income. I bet nothing has come from Scameron’s “teachings” and she’s still probably trying to get some other acting gigs, long giving up on the actual trading if she ever tried the WT way. Most likely they all had losses, while Ross as usual points out the big winners per week like no tomorrow, same as when I saw his room back in 2016.Another example I saw years ago. “Mandy Ditmire” as a secretary or whatever for John Carter’s simpleroptions.com which I trialed. (another boondoggle course upselling scam. also they never followed up on their many option spread call losers). It turns out she was also a staff at “Rockwell”. The Fritz guy exposed their scam years ago and mentions Ditmire in his blog. (https://rockwelltradingscam.wordpress.com/home/). And more recently RagingBull’s refund-denier staff. Wow, these staff are expert and denying refunds and getting concerned clients signed up (even sometimes behind their credit card) to even more sets of new, and invented worthless “advanced” newsletters and signals. So what experience is required. Oh, maybe this staff pricks were good at avoiding collections and their phone calls, so yeah, maybe that translates into giving these poor sucker clients the runaround from their rightful refunds and still on the carrot stick of new, more “advanced” newsletters and services, which only effectively suckers them into more subs for another periods when all they really want to do is get out of their sunkcost and losing current subs and maddening churn. And some gurus, plenty of them were former retail attempting traders who never learned to win consistently at trading, but got stuck into it and compromised themselves into becoming vendor scams. Unfortunately I know of at least two or three members of futures.io/bigmiketrading over the past years who became scammy vendors themselves selling some futures trading system or a set of useless indicators , and of course never proven with live trading. So always best to keep one’s day job or regular career instead of dropping everything to attempt a “life” of trading.
Also another good small recap of your story Emmett in this subthread. You had your real turning point with the FBI rounding you up and going to jail, which you relayed was a terrible experience and then finally waking up. And you’d done invaluable recompense to the retail trading community, as tradingschools has probably saved countless thousands from getting their fortunes or savings ruined by several exposed vendors reviewed here. Certainly more good and effictive work than that Belfort clown ever did with his reformed post-hustler life stage. Good paragaphs like these spread throughout some of your comments in these various reviews. I hope the “warning” page gets revised in the future with more of those details, or your future bestseller book about trading scams and being a whistleblower comes out someday, haha. As for RagingBull and other scams like them, those principals need to go through what you did, or at least tied up and arressted on camera in front of their duped chatroom or worthless newsletter followers like Laandgarten was and carted off by the FBI. This scammery is never going to end, but at least these worst example such as “Ragged Steer” as Stray likes to put it could be shut down and carted off by the FBI and setting an example and a wake up call for all those who got duped or could potentially, by their annoying yt videos and ads.
I guess the millions in “unearned distributions” that B&B took last year (as per the receiver’s report) are still in escrow for refunds. If all the remaining customers are as ecstatic about the services as Gilligan and PeterS make it sound, there should be plenty left of the $10m that the court ordered B&B to cough up.
Meanwhile I’m left wondering why the gurus don’t earn their employees’ comp by plying their amazing trading $kill$… should be a snap to cover payroll.
Buy all the packages using your employee discount, then trade exactly like your guru bosses recommend in their scam sheets, ahem, newsletters; trade sheets, crapola etc., and become a millionaire like your bosses. Why not? Do you not believe in the products that you are pushing?
There is no conflict of interest. You are just a peon, which is why you are not getting paid right now. Just follow the recommendation of the gurus, then when you make your millions, you can just show them the middle finger on your way out of the door. You can add a good “Fuck you” for an exclamation point.
In response to everyone who commented on my comment — I’m not working there anymore because they can’t pay me. Not working for free. Myself and a bunch of others joined not really knowing all the bad stuff going down in the company. It was a job (in a financial company no less, looks great on a resume under normal circumstances) and I took it. We were selling products, a pretty typical thing to do within any company. I don’t use the products, it’s not like I could afford them anyway. I have a new job. I’m not loyal to RB. I just would like the money they owe me from 6 months ago and they keep finding reasons to delay paying us. There ARE a bunch of people who are still working there, full time, for free. I don’t understand them. The assets are unfrozen so there’s literally no reason they can’t just pay everyone (employees doing front facing stuff who had no knowledge of the fraud, customers who got ripped off, etc.). They’re stalling because they don’t have the money. Yet they continue to tell everyone they have the money. My former colleagues believe it and it scares me. That place is a cult.
The Md. Department of Labor is your friend in this matter. Read up on wage liens right here:
https://www.peoples-law.org/maryland-unpaid-wage-lien-law
Typically, filing something like this (or just an attorney’s letter) puts a spring in the step of tardy or negligent employers…
Wage theft in Md. entitles you to treble damages. Just saying’…
Nice try Emmett….better luck next time though. RagingBull is back even better than it was previously!
If their trades make a profit then they will be better than last time but if all they achieve is to profit again from subscriptions then how will that be better than it was previously? But I am waiting, with huge excitement, for when Gillian sends her broker statements and details of the trades that are a result of Ragging Steer’s recommendations to Emmett. 20K a month for how many months, that will exciting to find out about.
Huge awesome launch today on RagingBull back stronger than ever with new gurus etc as well! Glad the criminal on here lost!
RagingBull email out – officially all services are a go tomorrow! All current subscribers given access to the entire suite of services. Thank god its been long enough!
Looks like the FTC is being forced to withdraw their complaint for ‘victim’ relief.
Provide the source of your information for this statement please.
‘In light of the AMG decision, FTC counsel will submit a proposed amended complaint to the Commission for review and approval, which will withdraw the FTC’s request for equitable monetary relief under Section 13(b)’ https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.487710/gov.uscourts.mdd.487710.229.0.pdf
In light of the AMG decision, FTC counsel will submit a proposed amended complaint to the Commission for review and approval, which will withdraw the FTC’s request for equitable monetary relief under Section 13(b) and may seek additional relief under the Restore Online Shoppers’ Confidence Act. You need to also read this part of the statement.
Shame on you! Why are you trying to use facts to spoil a good story. How dare you ask someone to read the whole release when they have already got their confirmation bias and decided to stop reading? You party pooper, you, you, you.
This is simply a legal technicality. FTC cannot use Section 13 (b) to get the relief for victims because of that AMG ruling in 2021. So it is seeking different vehicle for legal remedy. This is in no way saying that somehow victims are not right to seek relief. Only how to achieve it legally.
This is the same issue as that Supreme Court unanimous ruling. It is about the legal vehicle to achieve something. Judges never said it is wrong to seek justice for victims and that we should let the scammers win. But this particular law/clause cannot be used to achieve it and different legislation has to be used. Maybe even a new one that the Parliament has yet to pass.
I am beginning to think that Raging Bull’s grand “reopening” was nothing more than a ruse to convince the judge to release Jason and Jeff’s liquid assets, and nothing more. Or to perhaps to finalize the PPP loan they applied for.
I keep hearing about this amazing reopening, but nothing seems to be happening.
lol you wish dick wad! They just gave us subscribers access to a bunch of new services including all of their original ones and the new Octagon etc. Looks pretty awesome. Tomorrow is official re-launch day and subscribers can’t WAIT!!!!
This is the problem with Moore and co-conspirators! You guys all think everything is a scam or done with malicious intent.
Perhaps but the boat load of evidence that the FTC has against Ragging Steer also leads us to that conclusion.
LOL like what ? A couple of grumpy testimonials from customers? OMG call the FTC people are whining! But but but I thought those ads with private jets mean I would be a millionaire while sleeping – FTC LAWSUIT!!!
I agree with you. But you are wrong about one thing. People are not whining. They are afraid.
We know that Emmett has CFTC in his pocket. And why is that? Did you know that Emmett’s French bulldog Jewel is best friends with CFTC executive’s chihuahua Tuppence and that these two have developed a synchronised act? When they go out to the park and see a worm, Jewel grabs it by the neck and Tuppence pulls on the tail till the thing no longer moves. How’s that for a proof of conspiracy? The only reason that all these thousands of people complained against Raging Bull is that Jewel and Tuppence threatened to go out and hand them all a “worm treatment” if they did not complain.
Now I hear from confidential sources that Tuppence is partial to planes and loves travelling and could be persuaded by a lucrative advertising deal to switch sides and jump over to Raging Bull. CFTC naturally would follow. Therein lies the best way out for Raging Bull and it spells Emmett’s downfall.
Oh no! The betrayal of Tuppence? But then again, it all makes perfect sense.
Jewel must have a conversation with Tuppence on our next walk.
I’m trying to keep an open mind. But it’s pretty hard considering everything. But let’s see what happens…
BTW, I love the name, “EmmettSucklesBigly.” Got a good laugh out of me.
So, I predicted that the TRO would be lifted before it was. My latest ‘prediction’ is that Kyle Dennis will be removed from the case because the FTC doesn’t have a valid case against him. None. The FTC will be forced to have him removed like Alan Marshal was. Mark this post and remember – i’ve already dished you haters some humble pie in my last prediction – you guys want seconds?
Yes please because the removing of the TRO means nothing given the conditions that the FTC have been successful in having applied to Ragging Steer moving forward. This is not a win for the nutless wonders.
Do you think Nathan Bear will come back?
And when do you think they will be up and running. They sent out something that said we would hear something at the end of the month and then I got an email saying the beginning of May. I am with another subscription and I am not making near the money I did with Raging Bull.
I heard he wasn’t coming back unfortunately. I am the same – was making $20k+ a month following them so needless to say im pretty angry at these bozos on here! I am a bit annoyed that we still haven’t heard anything!
You were making “$20k+ per month” trading with Raging Bull? Oh, come on now. Gee, you can just redact that account statement and remove any private or personal information and just upload it right into the thread. I would love to see some proof of this.
If not, then it sounds like Raging Bull is not interested in actually changing.
Gillian, isn’t it time to turn a new leaf and just start being truthful?
Email me at GillianWolls@protonmail.com i will be happy to go through your due diligence process and even do an interview.
just don’t put in any illegal tracking stuff or any of the other tricks you have admitted to doing with emails etc….
And I will publish everything “as is.”
I would love to eat some “humble pie.” Make me a believer!
I will strip naked and paint “Raging Bull is REAL” on my naked body and run down the beach acting like a complete nut. Someone can record the whole thing! Put it on YouTube. Heck, create a new advertising campaign of me making a complete fool of myself. I will do it! I want to believe it!
I was making good money also. I made my best money trading spreads with Nathan and Jeff. I am a APEX subscriber.
they just sent stuff out saying Bullseye is back (awesome service) and JBP will be as well probably this week or maybe Monday.
I am getting a little frustrated with RB. They acted like they were going to start a few services this week. Has anyone heard anything?
Launching tomorrow check your email and RB dashboard for a nice surprise 🙂
‘The Supreme Court ruled in favor of scam artists,’ FTC chief says after justices gut agency’s powers – POLITICO
From the same article:
“Congress is already considering legislation to remedy the Supreme Court decision. The House Energy and Commerce Committee has scheduled a hearing for next week on whether the FTC needs new authority to seek consumer redress. The Supreme Court case was also a key topic at an FTC oversight hearing in the Senate this week.
“We have to do everything we can to protect this authority and if necessary pass new legislation to do so,” Senate Commerce Chair Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.) said at the same Tuesday hearing.”
I am a big fan of RB. I cannot wait until they are back up and running. Anyone have any insight as to what they will open with first. They said they were going to open in stages.
Me to. Whats your favorite service?
Nathan Bear by far
Nathan Bear. Someone said he may not come back yet they may have it mixed up with Kyle Dennis. I thing read in the court papers he was not coming back.
I think they will first open up the “We will screw you out of all your money” department followed by the “A sucker is born every minute” Podcast series
LOL!
The court-appointed Independent Monitor has set up a page w/ all pertinent information for those customers seeking a refund etc.:
https://www.affiliatedmonitors.com/raging-bull-monitorship/?fbclid=IwAR03XnSam0opnchGs5EpWSF95wmp7vX_E6t0z6Xt_SBVH_oNwIFtibpczEc
Kyle Dennis fights back! https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.487710/gov.uscourts.mdd.487710.225.1.pdf go get them Kyle!!!
lol RagingBull fighting back hard as well seeking restitution and legal expenses from the FTC etc. This will be hilarious if they win then go after Moore et al for damages as well as the FTC for being wrongfully injured. I really think they have a good chance as well and it seems like the legal game is being stepped up now they have their funds back.
LOL.
Indeed, that would be hilarious. I hope they do. This would be a publicity windfall for me. As PT Barnum once said, “There is no such thing as bad publicity.”
lol what do you need publicity for ? Your ego? You aren’t selling anything or so you say….
Anytime I can get more coverage on the shady shit that happens in the “investment education” industry is a good thing. Even if it costs me a pound of flesh. And so, YES, I sometimes take it on the chin and get dragged into court by these scammers. But at the end of the day, even the negative publicity regarding me usually yields a net positive effect on my core mission.
And my core mission is to bring some transparency to this crappy industry. And to set some minimal standards on how these vendors should treat their customers.
I will gladly admit to everything. Yes, I did it. I saved the world from having to watch yet another video of Bond and Bishop in a private jet. Or Bishop touting that he is a MENSA genius. Or Bond claiming he was invited to speak at Harvard. Yes, your Honor, I did this. I am trapped and now must face the judgment of my peers.
To which the judge replies, “Mr. Moore, all humanity would like to thank you for your hard work and relieving society of having to watch yet more of those horrible videos.”
I got robbed and duped! I paid over $4k for Jason picks and about the same for Kyle Dennis! I need my money back.
lol how did you manage to pay that for those?! The price was $299 a quarter……
“• via email at: RagingBullMonitor@AffiliatedMonitors.com
• via telephone at: 617-807-1161
Please include your name, daytime telephone number, email address, and all pertinent information so we can acknowledge receipt of your message.
RagingBull.com will be addressing customer refund requests and complaints during the first 60 days of the Monitorship, and the Monitor will be monitoring that process. If you have not received a refund or a response from RagingBull.com by May 25, 2021, please contact the Monitor using one of the communication options above.”
from -> https://www.affiliatedmonitors.com/raging-bull-monitorship/
I agree with Gillian below. This is clearly lies from a troll. But imagine that he posted this on an review site then RB tried to get it taken down because its not even possible…..then suddenly THEY are the frauds!? Don’t you guys ever stop to think that they are the top dogs in the industry and would be the subject of a ton of these BS negative reviews by competitors etc. as well as pissed off customers that were not entitled to refunds etc.
I worked there too. I won’t say anything positive or negative but wanted to share a bit of information you might be interested in as this is the only online forum where I found RB being discussed. On March 26th JB announced the reopening to employees and told us we’d be getting our pay (that we were owed before the asset freeze) in roughly 10 days. It’s now April 16th and no more updates from them at all, no pay. Just radio silence.
Definitely keep updating on this development. Interesting to see how this pans out. I know that you guys really suffered and probably had the worst Christmas ever.
Hopefully, I don’t get too much of the blame.
lol yup you pretty much ran over everyone on this vendetta – subscribers and staff. Thanks asshole!
The only assholes in this saga are the Ragging Steer gurus. If they had run an honest business Emmett’s information wouldn’t have gotten any traction with the FTC.
I disagree – the FTC is notorious for this type of behavior but only when big money is involved. If you have ever known anyone that was prosecuted unfairly by the government (any branch) you would know that its all corrupt and driven by politics and money. Innocent doesn’t come into it. Moore knows…..he knew to spoon feed them because they are also lazy.
I even ehard the judge told them that he was angry at the FTC for ‘playing games’.
BS! If there was no case to be brought against Ragging Steer because there was no evidence the FTC would not have pursued it. The Ragging Steer gurus engaged in fraudulent business practices and they brought this upon themselves.
Not true. When the FTC was told by Moore et al. that they were ‘frauds’ etc. they based a case on the fact that they were pretending to be profitable traders. However, the accounting was skewed to show Jason was a ‘net losing’ trader. Not true as the Bates report showed. Kyle Dennis is a massively profitable trader as well – notice the FTC has gone quiet about that? He was audited and the story is 100% TRUE! The case is falling apart fast from what I’ve seen. There are most likely a bunch of minor infractions in advertising but nothing substantial. The lies told by the FTC lawyers is astounding and shocking to say the least.
The case hasn’t even started yet. And the FTC is holding all cards.
The FTC had to get involved. RB was getting away with too much fraudulent balony and also denying and hooking sunk-cost victims with their denial of refunds scheme. Even poor Petra couldn’t handle the damage to the victims anymore. And RB had already used their ill-gotten gains to pretty much flood and bribe out any compromised review site out there such as ripofff, trustpilot and investimonials. Too many regular trading forums and sites had long been compromised often with broker or scam sponsors. It was getting too outrageous. If the FTC wasn’t going to stop this, who would? tradingschools is a blessing to overall retail trading, as it goes after the plentiful scams 99.99% of this shamshow “industry” and the discussion exposes many of their tricks to awareness of the readership. And Emmett has footed the bill and the personal inconeniences from over 15 lawsuits funded by victim duped money, and the personal danger and inconveience of hired thugs and stalkers by the unbalanced and criminal shams. It isn’t corrupt or political at all about this case. It’s just plain consumer advocacy that should have been done a long time ago. But shills or liar employees like you wanted this to go on no matter the damages and churn to newbs, and thought you could get away with this indefinitely.
email me at gillianwolls@protonmail.com so I can prove I am a RB subscriber not a shill or employee. I can also show you my success with the services. Weirdly, I have been asking all you haters this and not one has emailed me yet. Guess you people just like to cling to your hatred, biases and spout off BS online.
Gillian we believe that you are a subscriber. I certainly do. What would be the point of emailing me your dashboard? You can post it here. I believe you can show proof. You must be a subscriber – you have shown clearly that you are angry about losing an income which was “spoonfed” to you by these pennystock alerts. I believe it to be true in your case. You sound well educated, well off, not desperate or greedy out of misery. You sound like you trade stocks yourself anyway, use a stock scanner etc. You know what you are doing and how to protect yourself from losing. This was probably just a niche for you and you are knowledgeable enough to know how to do it. But many are not. Do the simple math. These are penny stocks – they have no value behind them. Other than a short-time inflated value from pump buying till it all crashes back down. Someone has to be on the receiving end of it. If it was your granny your would not be happy. You DID sell them immediately did you not? There will always be someone at the end of the queue with no one to sell to. You agreed on the point of over the top advertising by RB. Now if someone does this at home on their own – good luck to them. But to alert thousands of people at the same time – someone will pay for others.
I have no pleasure in seeing anyone – especially a woman – having to fight against so many people here. Thank you for sharing your email. But what would be the point?
Thanks and I appreciate your intelligent responses. I guess you are right 🙂 there is no point. I should probably go back to focusing on more important things than arguing with people on here. It’s like politics – no one is going to be convinced by the other sides arguments or evidence.
yes please keep us updated – my guess it that its a real pain in the butt getting banks opened again etc?
… and what kind of pain in the butt it will be to sign on w/ a credit card processing and email management company. The last cc vendor had already chucked them half-way out the door for excessive refund requests…
Do you think Nathan Bear will be back?
This bull, quite literally, has what’s left of its testicles in a barbed-wire straightjacket (i.e., marketing controlled by 2 former AG w/ consumer protection backgrounds = honest advertising = minuscule revenues by comparison to the prior haul), is bleeding cash via Monitor-approved refunds — and its entrails quite literally have been handed to law enforcement (FTC, SEC!!, various state AG’s) for closer examination.
Direct marketing-driven businesses require lies to market profitably. It’s very simple: No lies, no $$$, no “unearned distributions” to ownership = no financial incentive.
If the Bull survives the sudden withdrawal of financial incentive, it may end up waiting for its inevitable end grazing peacefully in a Baltimore County backyard, wearing a tutu and pink pompoms on its horns for the amusement of the community. And all that before going to trial.
lol you are talking nonsense. The bleak outlook you are protraying is based on your false belief that the ONLY reason stock alerts companies like RB are successful is that they just lie in their marketing! Nonsense. Were you beaten as a child by an online marketer or something?
It’s simple math, buddy. NOT the RB-variety math — just good old racist algebra.
IF you think about it – not such a simple equation. For example, more sensible marketing will attract more quality customers that will stay longer. Much longer. They will also pay more as they aren’t broke idiots. That is just one of many many factors you aren’t taking into account while judging how a business you know nothing about will fair after the dust settles (you also have no idea how that will go).
You seem to imply that people with money will be happy to be taken for fools. You could not be more wrong. The more money we have the more we value it.
Let’s see. Those that will pay more and “aren’t broke idiots” are doctors, dentists, accountants, pilots and lawyers. They earn a lot but for that they have to get out of the house. They want more security doing a job for which they do not have to leave the house (from personal experience). They will only “stay longer” if there is something to stay longer for. If they are taken for fools they will stir trouble . Big trouble. Bigger than “the broke idiots”.
No, I am implying that those people with ‘money’ don’t buy into marketing aimed at 20 year old boys (lambos etc). So, if RB is able to get more of those people with better marketing than before, they will probably find longer retention rates, high prices possible and less clawbacks etc.
Not to mention that the crazy marketing really hurt their reputation and ultimately ended in this FTC crap.
And Gillian – we do know about the business. We know they fabricated results to the point of fantasy. We know they said they made profits they did not. We know they made people crazy trying desperately to contact them to cancel future payments and being jerked around in circles. We know they threatened defamation suits and tried to gag clients. These were threats no less. Threats of big money to silence the small guy.
What did you expect would happen? If I am a human being – and I am – I can see your pain. Your family business is in ruins and it hurts. But what about those that were hurt by RB? There is a family behind each and every one of them. And less money to fall back on.
If this happened because some and not all RB owners wanted it then they should sort between themselves who is to blame and who should pay and how to try to rescue the business.
lol for the last time I am not an employee or Jason Bonds wife! I suspect it would be pretty stupid if I was to come on here where we know sneaky Emmett logs IP’s etc if I was a part of them.
Dave, are you still lurking around on this page? Dave, this, this reply of Gillian’s to Nadina’s post above, this is a dodge.
I’ve been watching this industry since 2003. (I did my due diligence then and have kept a jaundiced eye on them since. Had a client that had been duped. Impossible for a small firm to take on these guys.) I know how the game is played.
Time has shown again and again that any attempt at “reasonable marketing” can (these days probably won’t) bring in enough money through the door to buy you a used Prius.
Almost all people who have employed reasonable marketing strategies either went under and had to get a real job or had to sell their souls to the Baltimore Moloch.
Direct marketing used to be targeted to subscriber lists of comparable products. Buyers had preselected themselves as prospects by their buying behavior. They knew what they were buying and were able to compare. A magazine article called them the “Grumpy Old Men”.
Now it’s drift net fishing on the Internet almost exclusively, no holds barred.
The quality of marketing used to be measured by the refund rate. Trust had to earned the hard way for three months (full refund) and pro-rated refunds for the range of the subscription.
RB etc al removed the refund option in the fine print.
The quality of a publication used to be measured by the 1st year renewal rate. RB et al. forced people by negative option into the auto renew — and then denied a refund!
These people are vultures. I’m glad you like them, but make sure you never get close enough to them to smell the carrion on their feathers…
Lol I run several alerts services and barely market let alone do shady stuff. I promise you we aren’t going broke anytime soon. Most rooms can make 6 figures a month no problem with no shady marketing. I hope you give your clients better researched advice!
That’s well said. Well supported. All solid arguments. Clearly a professional. You simply dwarf Boondoogle. He/she should just find the nearest hole and hide when you start speaking. Do tell us more! How many services do you run? How exactly are you marketing? Or is it confidential like the rest of your post?
I promised myself I would not post today and give everyone a break! Why do you people do this to me?
Totally agree. It won’t work. At least not at scale. With the oversight, they will be extremely restricted. All you have to do is talk to the current employees at Online Trading Academy to see how pathetic the sales.
I took one of the salespeople at OTA out to lunch a few weeks ago and they described it as “trying to sell sugar-free ice cream.”
healthier for sure!
I am watching the Glassdoor reviews of competitors who’ve been handed their ‘nads by the FTC or various AG’s recently. Even after 50%+ staffing cuts year-over-year, they’re barely afloat.
LOL! Oh my god, you really have me laughing with this post. Hey, maybe you are right. Maybe the “Bull is back.” Though you seem to forget about the little detail about the pending trial. As in, there will be an actual trial and all the evidence comes in. That trial might actually be a problem. Don’t you think?
Whatever happens, I am definitely going to attend the trial. This should be tons of fun. Maybe I should buy this costume and wear it to the trial? https://www.amazon.com/Forum-Novelties-Inc-Deluxe-Costume/dp/B0085SXZ9W
Emmett let’s be honest about this. Let’s be honest for once in our stupid lives!!
We all know that the court case was a gross injustice which was brought because:
1. American judiciary is a subsidiary of tradingschools
2. The judge is my second uncle
3. One court Independant Monitor is married to Stray’s great grandaunt
4. The other Monitor is married to a lady who owns a pet salon where your French poodle gets his haircut
In view of the above we can now safely say that Raging Bull will continue unabated and Cardinal Cash and Jeff will soon be in business. I am thinking of joining them if I am honest.
I like the costume.
Nadina, I have only two things to say to you. Stop giving away our trade secrets and can you introduce me to Emmett’s poodle?
I will keep my mouth shut. On the subject of French poodle – come to think about Emmmett’s previous posts – I think it’s actually a French bulldog.
Do you still want to meet her?
Shh, don’t tell him that you made a mistake. It is actually a rabid pit bull, but because it has been caged, folks are not yet aware that it is rabid.
I couldn’t agree more. Lol. (with a hearty laugh)
But more to the point…the American justice system was literally built upon a tilted table where the scammers get all the advantages. I believe Alan Greenspan, our former Fed Chair, once wrote that “I want the economy to be about 10% graft” or something to this effect. And its really true, our system was built with many degrees of freedom and is very much “laissez-faire” when it comes to governmental intervention.
As a counterpoint to the systemic graft we experience in our economy, we have a robust 1st amendment privilege. In other words, the founding fathers wanted the citizenry to “speak loudly, and robustly” when they witnessed acts or practices that offended the notions of fair play.
Case in point, I can speak with great confidence that Raging Bull would not have faced any of these woes if they had not filed a lawsuit against David Jaffee in Florida. Additionally, they went out their way to threaten their students with defamation lawsuits and legal threats if they spoke out, about their experiences.
The legal threat against people willing to speak out was the fuse that lit the bomb. And I told Jeff Bishop this personally. I swore to him that he was going to pay for what he did. That I would assemble a coalition of pissed-off people and I would bang as many drums until the FTC took action. This is in fact, exactly what happened.
Now I am sure that Jeff and Jason wish they could take it all back. This has cost them hundreds of millions of dollars. And it was all avoidable by simply treating their fellow citizens fairly, honestly, and not abusing the legal system to their own benefit.
This isn’t true when it comes to the FTC ‘the American justice system was literally built upon a tilted table where the scammers get all the advantages’ . They can literally say ANYTHING and financially ruin a company even if its just BS. Even if the company ‘wins’ they are forced to settle and spend a ton of money defending themselves. The lawyers for RB ran all over the FTC nonsense and the judge agrees. How is that tilted in these people’s favor? All it takes is as you said ‘getting a bunch of annoyed people to bang the drums’ and a big enough financial incentive for the FTC to do an ‘investigation’.
I suspect u knew this before engaging in this. anyone with experience in law knows it doesn’t matter if you are guilty or innocent – it’s who has the most money wins. You knew from your own experiences with the feds what would happen and why.
“The lawyers for RB ran all over the FTC nonsense and the judge agrees.” What utter nonsense. Just consider the conditions that the judge imposed on Ragging Steer in order for them to reopen. There is no way that the judge agreed with their lawyers.
Correct! The judge did not determine whether Raging Bull was guilty or innocent, he only determined that certain aspects of the temporary asset freeze were unconstitutional. This was recently adjudicated in the Supreme Court, so yes, Raging Bull got lucky there.
Gillian, what Raging Bull was doing to consumers with their marketing and advertising was patently false and fraudulent, on its face. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Now I know that the Raging Bull employees are mad at me for all the trouble I caused and getting the FTC all worked up…but you have to realize that the customers of Raging Bull were not the only victims here.
The other victims were the competitors of Raging Bull. What about the operators that were trying to run a clean business and be honest with their marketing and sales? Raging Bull was stealing their business opportunities.
I speak with the competitors on a nearly daily basis. Even the people that hate me also call me on the phone and tell me, “I have to market shady because if I don’t, those thieves and liars at Raging Bull is going to take all the business.”
Can you now start to understand how Raging Bull had warped the market dynamic where everyone else had to follow suit, or perish?
And besides, aren’t we all better off not having to watch those god damn Raging Bull YouTube ads blasting 24/7?
lol ok then……RagingBull is nowhere near the worst culprits nor were they anywhere close to being the first over hyped marketing machine in this industry. Far from it. I once spoke to them about it and they gave the SAME reason that if they weren’t aggressive marketing then the competitors that are would also ‘take’ their business. I mean you of all people have seen the ridiculous marketing claims from others right? Way worse than RB!
No not worse. The same. There was one in 2015 called Simon Jousef. He took between $ 7000 and $ 10 000 per person. He claimed he traded live (all three of his moderators no less). He lied. He never had a live account as verified by the court. He put up “live results” which were fabricated. Now what would you have me do? NOT complain? Or would you gag me and threaten defamation suit? Would you buy a pound of organic potatoes for 90 pence and find that the bag is empty and they expect you to take it on the chin??
This is not a game of football where heads of consumers are kicked around between scammy advertisers laughing their heads off at “ stone stupid plonkers who fell for it so serves them well “. Who do you people think you are? World has not been created so you can crap on it.
lol i love how you assume everyone is part of RB or something ‘who do you people think you are?’ etc.
Well you put up the hell of a fight for someone you are not part of. I fight for justice and because I was scammed. Why do you fight? Normally most people would be on the side of the consumer.
Is it so hard to believe? I’m a longtime subscriber to RB and love the services. I AM A CONSUMER. I was with them when they weren’t even RB just a cluster of services…..I feel like they are family but they aren’t. I’m not actively fighting anything just shocked that you guys are so convinced that they are scamming people. And no lol I don’t have ‘stockholm syndrome’ (pun intended). I’m also not stupid (very highly educated) and very successful in life. A long time ago I was actually scammed by a family friend (way more money than you have lost) and I know what sociopaths and scammers are like. RagingBull is not one of them in my opinion.
Are you really a subscriber? Yes it is hard to believe. Can you describe which services of RB you have been using and in which way? How many times a month or a year roughly you found them profitable. What was the average profit or loss per year. What was it – Jason’s Picks or Jeff’s Bullseye or something else? Can you tell us more ? Not in detail you understand. I don’t want to copy your trading method. Just generally. I am just curious how has it happened that RB services so useful to you have been so misunderstood by so many. There are 337 complaints on BBB today. It cannot be just over advertising. It is also making it impossible to cancel future payments. How do you think that has happened? Was there a crooked manager who unbeknown to Jeff and Jason did this – told staff to not answer the phone and rigged the website to disable the link to cancel services? Have you ever noticed any signs of pump and dump, ie that the price of stock just went down the moment you bought? Maybe you can shed some light. Thanks
Should we do this over email? I can show you screenshots of my logged in dashboard to prove i’m a subscriber etc. It might finally put this whole ‘i’m a shill’ thing to rest lol. I was or am a member of every single service they have ever offered. No pump and dumps. They often would buy stocks moving up with momentum on breakouts etc. This is not a pump and dump but it is the reason most noobs can’t just copy trades with any service. If I am a guru and i set a buy order to trigger when a stock breaks resistance – by the time I alert it of course it will appear that I front ran the move. As sellers come in (as they always do) then subscribers that chased will feel like it was a pump and dump. It wasn’t.
Jason Bond Monday Movers was amazing – buy when his watchlist came out on Friday afternoons. Then watch them continue up until the close. Sell for profits. Repeat until Richer. Never hold over the weekend to risky. I can show you a lot of proof of this if we continue via email. Jeff Williams small account challenges – same idea. These guys were good at finding momentum stocks. They just were and i still use Jeffs scanner settings to this day.
Complaints: 337 out of what? 200,000 students? I mean people love to whine in this industry and 337 is all ? I mean even 10x that would be doing great! I never once saw a single dodgy thing with cancellations etc. I’ve never had something auto-renew if it was set to cancel etc. Just my experience. My opinion? Jeff and Jason went along with a marketing company that was out of control. They should have said no thats too much – but they didn’t.
Oh you were asking about returns? I don’t just RB stuff but a rough guess is 10% a month from their services. Again, via email I can try my best to show you evidence of this (I have tried in the past to do this with skeptics and my experience is they will just scream ‘photoshop fake’ etc so I gave up). I mean anything can be faked right?
10% a month, 120% a year. That’s surprising given that it is a documented fact that the Ragging Steer gurus lost money trading their own alerts / system.
Shame on you using logic like that. So what? He is MENSA7. They are only MENSA5. That makes him an even whole lot smarter than they are. They can lose using their methods, but not he. Shut up, you anti-RB troll.
Once again, for those fools reading this whose IQ is below 90, do not come back excoriating me. It is called sarcasm.
Please give me a break, it is documented in the court documents, all of the lsot money trading, nobody made any money. 10% a month – LOL, here is the annualized returns for the top traders in the world:
Jim Simons: 39.1%
George Soros: 32%
Steve Cohen: 30% while cheating
Peter Lynch: 29%
Warren Buffett: 20.5%
Ray Dalio: 12%
Those are per YEAR, so please stop with the Raging Bullshit stuff
lol you are wrong – email me at GillianHoll@protonmail.com and i’l be happy to walk you through every trade with screenshots next to the alerts. Despite this being a tedious exercise for me – tired of the BS on this blog.
those are the results from the best traders of our time, and we saw the results from your gurus in the FTC documents, they only lost money, did not make 1 cent, so this is enough prof for me…
Those are investors…..not active traders. Whole different ball game. I see this a lot from ‘investors’ claiming that if Warren Buffet can’t blah blah. It is comparing apples to oranges. Volatile active penny stock trading is not scalable but does yield much much higher returns % wise if done properly. Warren Buffet makes way more investing for smaller % gains but with HUGE amounts of capital. You literally can’t trade these stocks with $1BB.
There was no 3rd party marketing company. The RB principals target-hired cast-offs from another local quack publisher that got slammed last year by 2 state AG’s. AND the FTC. (The current Monitor arrangement closely resembled the stipulated order that ended that FTC case.)
The entire process, they call it a “gauntlet”, is copied from that billion-dollar industrial-size manufacturer of misleading promotional bait 15 miles south, everything from the rapid-fire sequence of marketing emails to the way promo copy is worded.
These 2 principals are no victims here, they deliberately implemented this process to squeeze as much money out of the market as possible… not w/ trading gains (they can’t do that, they avoid like hell to be registered and regulated as a money manager of financial adviser!!) but purely from first-tier misleading marketing aimed at under-informed people greedy or desperate for money.
The Temporary Receivers report from March is particularly interested in that he states that company itself was in the red despite “unprecedented success” — mainly bc B&B had already taken out 10’s of MM in “unearned distributions”. If anything is a red flag, that is!
I’m not sure if you were joking about the crooked manager but its actually a really interesting idea! I mean the people they hired were the ones doing the marketing sales etc and im sure performance based. Not saying the JB’s aren’t ultimately responsible of course.
I made a new email (no way am I posting my main one in here lol) if you want to reach out to me I can walk you through the whole thing. Best case scenario is we get a better insight into each others perspectives. GillianWolls@protonmail.com
Thank you. You offered something and I appreciate it. And it feels much nicer writing like a normal person and not bitching. You could be anyone and I cannot check your identity but I want to believe you.
I see you have an encrypted email address with (obviously) hidden IP address – which any VPN server would hide with any email address. Encrypted email means only a recipient can read the contents of the email. So presumably you trust me not to post what you disclose to me here. You can trust me – I would never post anything here without your permission. But what would be the point of showing it only to me? There are many people that need to see some proof and be convinced. May I ask if you are a witness and will you show your statements to the court? We have often asked for statements here. I fully understand you don’t want to post your full statements including your name here and if you hide personal details then accusations of a fake would follow. But I imagine statements can be “audited” without showing much detail as long as a reputable company – like an accountant or a broker – will audit them meaning they have seen them, checked the background and vouch they are genuine. That firm would then take responsibility and take on any naysayers. Say I wanted to post my own trading statements here and wanted to protect my full name. I expect that can be done as long as the firm has seen those very statements that would be posted here and can vouch they are real and they show real trading of a real peprson even if the name or account number has been crossed for privacy. Excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject. Can I apply to our room solicitor Boondoggle to enlighten us on this? May be a useful advice as I am still hoping that people here will start posting their statements as an example to sellers. It could even lead to you and Boondoggle exchanging some civilised conversation! It can be done! You and I have done it! 🙂
On the subject of pump and dump – you bring up the material point. Is it even moral/possible to sell real-time advice to buy these stocks NOW? If you do that even with good advice so many people will try to buy at the same time so the ones who did it first will get the cream and those that are last will pay the price – the slowest, the oldest, the sick, the Brazilian granny with $ 1000 to spare. In that situation the one giving advice is ideally placed to profit. So should they be doing it? We are talking giving advice to buy NOW. It is very different from teaching people how to trade stocks and use a stock monitor to assess which stocks are a good buy. That would not create an avalanche of trading all at the same time. But neither would it be a bombastic sell with a price to match. You could not film an add getting on a plane, pointing a finger at the camera and saying “I want you on this plane with us next time”. I agree with you on the point of advertising – Raging Bull should take their legal bill, split in half and present the other half to their advertising guru.
To give an example of how I think trading education online should be done I will use futures as they are my thing. What would I do if I wanted to teach people? Don’t worry – not advertising – I would never actually do it God forbid. But after trading hours I would open a room in the evening. To train people there is no need for live market. It would be a distraction to real trader and a disaster for idiots wanting to follow rather than learn. I would get them on market replay and show recording of my own trading of that day (this is also a proof I am not scamming anyone). I would teach them how to look at volume in context (CVAs/DVAs/rhythm/acceptance) on different timeframes including all large ones. I would include a bit of delta/footprint/order flow (yes Emmett – it can be helpful as long as you keep it at its 10% contribution and do not run with it). I would do the day prep, form a hypothesis as if in real time and then let the replay run and adjust decisions as the picture changes. No difference from training a doctor or a plumber. They all learn on the job starting with simulation. You solder pipes or do laparoscopy in the workshop on a model first before you go out to do it for real under strict supervision so you don’t do anything stupid/kill anyone/flood a house. So it is 1:1 teaching. You can’t teach “thousands of students”. And you don’t advertise from an airport. Why is trading education different? And so much more expensive. It is as serious job as any other. It can lose you a lot of money.
Thank you again.
I’ve provided several statements to the court in support of RagingBull and will willingly testify on their behalf if needed. The funny thing is here is that one of the best services, Monday Movers, allowed and encouraged subscribers to
front-run’ Jason! Not the other way around. He would give out a watch list mid afternoon on Friday. Then would say here is what I might be looking at later. Then later he would send a real-time buy alert. By then I would already be at a decent profit from going through his watch list and buying them at smart entry points etc. It was literally being spoon fed money. Can you see why I might be a tad grumpy at Moore and the FTC? Myself and many other subscribers were making money on these services – like thousands a day on some of them! Many of my friends in RB quit their jobs to trade full-time etc. We are talking of how to recover our lost income etc. from the people responsible for this hit job.Anyway you have my email – if you want me to walk you through every trade alert and show you my buy/sells matched up to the alerts etc. How about this? If I can show that I traded a service and made money from it over the course of a year – Moore pays me the income I lost because of his hit job reporting? Heck lets just do it for one service! It would make a good article right Mr Honest Moore?
Please stop, in the court documents was shown all your gurus lost money while trading, no one made a cent.
Incorrect. Plus many students did better than the gurus on there.
LOL, I am sure they lost even more money than the gurus.
Then why don’t you take me up on my offer of proof instead of shooting your mouth off? Worried I’l destroy your cognitive bias ?
I doubt it’l get to trial – the case is too weak. I suspect a $2MM settlement or something like that.
Can anyone give me an update on RagingBull. It looks as if they are able to continue business. As a member I have not heard anything from them.
Hey baldy Moore, have you paid back the $965MM you scammed from your victims? https://youtu.be/9twcZLq23b4 lots of really interesting information in that video!
uglybaldymoore, lol, your handle is like a playground taunt that an elementary school kid would say. @uglybaldymopore have you read the Warning page on this site? Here it is for your convenience: https://www.tradingschools.org/warning/
lol that looks like a true sociopath bragging about what he did…..
And then there’s this … https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/the-trader-institute-global-trade-room-dr-dean-handley/
Pull the other one. Please. Anyone who needs help from Dr Dean Handley with all his reputation of a medical fraud and straight from his luxury 2-bed shack is truly desperate. You are not doing yourself any favours.
@uglybaldmoore Let’s not forget these two gems about your boy Dr. Dean Handley Haha haha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aaPtW9n7qk and the classic kitchen video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYSkTPaHEh8
Hey, Dean put out a great hit piece video on me. Congrats to Dean. I can take one on the chin.
FYI, I sort of like Dean Handley. Really, I do. We always attack each other. It’s all good fun.
But I think if you measure who has taken more shots…I would say that I have bloodied Dean more than he has bloodied me. But again, getting bloodied doesn’t really bother me much.
So, you want to explain his points rather just saying its a hit piece? I mean watching that it is very hard to believe you are NOT doing what he shows you are! He is very scientific about his analysis and presents evidence while you just scream ‘scam!’ and then write negative reviews.
To be completely honest…I have not watched Dean’s videos in a few years, so I am unfamiliar.
But I will say this about Dean, he went to the dark side. He traded what was good and pure about his reviews into something ugly and commercial. He lost sight of the original mission, which was to sacrifice his own interests to those of the community. To sacrifice himself for the good of the community.
For all practical purposes, his business is dead. And its not because of me, or our rivalry, or anything I did to him. Its dead because at some point, Dean Handley took the offramp to easy money. He became jaded and lost his vigor to hunt. He wanted comfort. He became tired of the struggle. He became sloppy in his work. He surrendered.
Dean is a true disappointment to me. But I still love him.
This is a common dodge I am seeing on this page, not just from you but from others like ‘StrayDog’ and ‘BoonDoggle’ even ‘Nadina’. It’s always ignore the evidence against you or your case then claim that the person presenting is ‘a fraud’ and just attack them instead of actually clearly defending your actions or offering any kind of explanation. Very common for lawyers lol.
All evidence against Emmet is on this website provided by him very self in detail. When Handley does that let us know.
What dodge? I shared the link where Emmett detailed his past. I then shared links that demonstrate the Dean Handley isn’t someone you can trust. On the other hand Emmett provided evidence to the FTC which they found credible so they pursued a case against Ragging Steer. The people who are ignoring evidence and dodging are the Ragging Steer shills.
Handley is ” very scientific in his analysis”? If you think Dean Handley is in any way “scientific”, please test it. Fork out a few hundred dollars “consultation” fee for half an hour Skype conversation with him supposed to “advise” you on trading and trading rooms. You will see “science” in action. I was stupid enough to do it in 2015. When you have done it come back and tell us all about it and how much “science” you got for your money. Otherwise don’t brag about what you don’t know. The man is a fraud personified. He never apologized just keeps re-inventing himself as fraud in different areas. He is currently in trading.
Nadina is proof positive of what happens to people that listen to Dean Handley.
Yes to my shame. This was 6 years ago. I’ve developed a tiny bit of common sense since then.
how about you check all the customer complaints on the BBB website claiming they have been defrauded sometimes over $10K by RagingBull and asking for full refunds! These thieves need to get locked up! https://www.bbb.org/us/nh/lee/profile/investment-advisory-services/raging-bull-llc-0051-92047360/complaints
Handley jdphdmsblah who still can’t trade his way out of his kitchen scam, only tried to be more scrutinizing and “scientific” after Emmett’s tradingschools started to get more traction. His “grand tetons” since the early 10’s to 2017 or so were all reported shamshows by the poor dupes who listened to Handley. Myself included with one of his ‘titans’ back in 2014. (Fortunately I had long since back made the couple of k’s I’d wasted in the bogus educational package and the fake trading room from my own trading). A pathetic yt channel trying to compete with tradingschools, yet still comproised with promoting Amico’s trading bot scam, and also his wife’s trading site and room since.
Does anyone hear any more rumors about when service will return or refunds will be issued? A vague timeline perhaps?
No refunds unless it was in your original purchase agreement. Then maybe.
Refunds will be issued by the Independent Monitor. The court did order refunds issued to those requesting one where the offer included a term pertaining to refunds. But the Independent Monitor (2 former attorney generals) have discretion in handling refund requests — and Bond & Bishop had to cough up $10mil to cover requests. IMHO, chances are that the IM applies common sense and refunds your subscription fee. (I’d write off the $$ you lost on stock recos…)
In my personal opinion, with the FTC suit AND the pending class action suit. RB’d be complete idiots to deny anyone a refund.
The Independent Monitor will, at some point, provide the necessary contact information.
The fact that RB hasn’t bothered to resume editorial service in the 2 weeks after the receivership was terminated would indicate to me that they have realized that there is absolutely no financial upside to continuing a business that will NEVEREVEREVER recuperate from the reputational damage inflicted on them by their own conduct and policies…
lol not what I heard…..I wouldn’t count on that. They are dotting their I’s and crossing their t’s before making announcements. Trust me they have big things planned – there is no keeping these guys down no matter how hard people try :).
So they are dotting i’s and crossing t’s are they? Would that be dotting i’s and crossing t’s in “indefensibility?”
They had since Dec. 8 to do that. There is really no impediment to resuming editorial if they wanted to. Of course, editorial is an afterthought in this kind of business.I say it again: There is no financial upside left in RB.
Well that explains it. I have of course been checking Raging Bull website every day as I am desperate to spent some money. Usual rubbish still there (everyone is MENSA 500 and been trading for 50 years) but no links work when you want to pay . . . how disappointing. I will keep trying . . .
Hi I’m a ragingbull employee and an active participant in a company Slack channel where all updates are posted. There was a company-wide zoom call where the details of the reopening were discussed and I can confirm that RB will be reopening within the next month beginning with resuming content to existing paid subscribers first and then restarting the sales emails after that.
Awesome!! Which services will be immediately continued?
Nearly all of the major gurus are back on board with revised versions of their previous services; Jeff, Jason, Kyle, Jeff W. The only ones who won’t be back to my knowledge are Nate and JC. As RB is under a microscope right now, I don’t want to make advertisey type posts on here and get us in trouble again, but know that RB is absolutely returning and paid subs are the main focus for them right now.
OMG, Jeff Bishop should not be allowed anywhere near a live trading account. How in the heck is he going to be offering any sort of advisory when he cannot trade himself out of a wet paper bag?
And did you read the terms of the Judge? Man, they cannot make any promises or exaggerations whatsoever. How in the heck is this supposed to even work? This whole business is based on convincing really dumb people that they will be flying in private jets within a few months. I don’t see it working. But who knows. Jeff is a marketing genius, for sure, but this might even be too big a river to swim over. Even for that crazy bastard.
Whatever happens, it’s going to be fun to write about.
I think you are wrong about why they are successful. I bought many subscriptions not based on thinking i’d be ‘flying in private jets within months’. I’ve been trading for a decade or so and found a lot of value in their services. Sure, the aggressive marketing helped them grow but got out of control imo. Amazing value from some of the services though. I think you’l find they continue to thrive so you might want to start planning your next attack!
There is not a “next attack” planned. The war is over. There are no more battles to wage. All are now part of the past.
However, going forward, they will be put under an “honesty” microscope. So this is actually an opportunity. This is a great and grand opportunity for Jeff and Jason to create something positive and honest from the ashes of their fraudulent fiasco.
Just imagine for a moment that Jeff and Jason reemerge with a commitment to full transparency? Suppose they start reporting actual profits and losses? Suppose the next “mentors” are all vetted and are actually great traders with track records and are fully transparent? Doesn’t this change everything?
And so, there must always be a path to redemption. There must always be a way towards the light. Nobody is condemned to a lifetime of punishment for past deeds. Everyone should have a path forward, towards the light.
I am a prime example. Look at me! A former prisoner and convicted criminal that committed deeds every bit as bad (or perhaps worse) than Jeff and Jason. Yet, I changed my path and headed in a different direction. Although the path to the light is always hard for me, to always remain honest and truthful, yet it is still a path that my fellow friends and enemies alike can agree is much different than my prior path.
Couldn’t agree more. A suggestion for Raging Bull – how about:
1. giving refunds to all that are currently disgruntled to get a clean slate
2. getting someone legitimate on your staff – someone like Mike Ballafiore perhaps? I never saw his statements but there is little doubt that SMB is a legitimate prop trading desk and he is a real trader. Which is why I cannot imagine Mr Bella bellowing: “I will make you 1000 ticks a day”. This is a dumb suggestion – I don’t suppose a serious trader like him would ever consider being a part of any internet trading room. But you get my point – someone real, vetted outside google overnight celebrity machine. Someone who was a trader long before Raging Bull came into existance and this is certified. Someone who would teach it like it is. Let’s get some reality and respectability into the business so the whole bloody thing is not a by-word for sleeze. Downside: you will not be able to charge what you used to. Those were prices for dreams that do not come true.
Like Emmett said this is an opportunity. We wait.
I’m not really enthused about Raging Bull reopening. While I agree with Nadina on her first point about RB cleaning up sending refunds to all former clients who requested but were denied or outright scammed from RB’s lying terms of service, I think the perps should be done with selling trading education since none of them can trade their way out of a wet paper bag either. Bond should go back to public teaching or whatever crap toothy smiley presentations he can do at fake Harvard room restaurants. Bishop should just get out the scamducation entirely, maybe get involved with private jet or luxury rentals. At least Emmett gave us this retail industry changing service of tradingschools and didn’t even mock up a fake trading education sales site or another stocktwits like financial blog guessing on stocks for the month. I can’t believe so many potential newbs are going to continue to be snookered, with millions more new retailers interested in trading this year after the GME fiasco. (That’s what these shamshows are really salivating about now, scamming and churning all these potential newbs the next following years.) And sad that at the same time, the SEC are also letting CFD’s effectively continue via offshore and simulation trading schemes to persist. imo, RB (and OTA and all those other longtime worst shams, incl. marcello’s DTA) deserved to be shut down completely and anyone involved permanently barred from selling any sort of financial services again.
lol ‘every bit as bad (or perhaps worse)’ !?? Are you kidding me? You literally stole nearly a billion dollars from people while Jeff and Jason just went a bit over the top with advertising!
Also, be prepared for the Emmett fan club on here to label you as a scammer and evil for working for them!
There are more than 600 comments on this topic so maybe I missed those comments Derek. Please tell me where they are.
Great to know, much appreciated. So by the end of April maybe?
Is there any compensation for 5 months of downtime?
They have said hopefully within a couple of weeks, yes. The reason editorial hasn’t resumed yet is because they’re being very careful to make sure everything will be compliant and all copy will have to go through the independent monitor, plus they’re working on their new product plans. They didn’t mention (to me at least) a specific type of compensation for subscribers who lost service during these few months, but knowing them I would assume they have something planned. As an employee I felt that they always went above and beyond to give compensation where it was due, and they have expressed extreme gratitude for all of their customers, so I am certain that subscribers will be treated well. I do know that the paying subscribers are the #1 priority right now so when stuff begins getting pushed out, you guys will be getting the content you paid for before anyone else gets any kind of free newsletter or sales email.
It’s certainly an interesting development. Am curious whether they can actually pull this off with the two court-appointed monitors. Sort of like throwing a huge keg party where you know that strippers are going to show up, but the whole party is being thrown in the Church parking lot. Its going to be really odd and feel very strange…to say the least.
Most of the ads and copy etc were probably already compliant so not really much of a change…..
I would like to know how to go about getting a refund. I have several services with RB and have had no emails at all since last year. that is just wrong.
Do you happen to know how to go about getting a refund?
Keep an eye on the RagingBull.com site. 3 weeks after the end of receivership, they are still claiming that they haven’t staffed up to handle customer service requests. When they re-open, have your information handy and contact them at the number or channel the Independent Monitor will provide, probably via the site and/or via an email to the customer base.
Th court ordered all FTC complainants whose affidavits support the complaint to be refunded first. Customers who bought pursuant to an offer that included a refund provision and who are now asking for one will also be refunded. (So pull together your information, including the original email or promo you responded to, credit card statement etc.)
For those whose offer did not include an express refund provision or explicitly denied a refund, the Independent Monitor has some discretion to issue one.
IMHO, the unilateral discontinuation of any service for 6 months would constitute a breach of contract; I’d argue any lifetime offer sent out after Dec. 7 — I hear there was at least one — was made in bad faith, and any prior lifetime offer now is compromised by the greatly reduced reasonable life expectancy of a service or even the company.
(I’d also argue that a lifetime offer for services headed by now departed gurus would constitute a novation in terms for which new consideration — a refund — must be given.)
At a minimum, you will be able to opt out of any automatic renewal.
(The above, of course, does not constitute legal advice but merely my informed opinion.)
Also file your claim with the FTC, so you can be considered for any later restitution. If you go to FTC.gov and search for RagingBull you’ll find all information. The original complaint is linked to their PR section, you can find the business email addresses of the principal FTC attorneys at the end of the complaint. I’d just send it directly to them, and watch your tax dollars work for you.
Also worth reading this regarding the Receiver working as a stooge for the FTC and not as a neutral party. They were being paid nearly $1MM by the FTC and you guys want to talk about shills!? https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.487710/gov.uscourts.mdd.487710.196.0.pdf
That’s disgraceful. Ragging Steer should be footing the bill for the Receiver.
RB is paying, both for the Receiver and for the Monitors.
That’s nothing: Did you notice the line about tens of millions of dollars being pocketed by Bishop & Bond in “unearned distributions”? That RB was losing money as a business despite “unprecedented growth” because Bond & Bishop were draining it of cash?
Whats wrong with that? I think we are probably both going to dwell on the parts that suit our particular beliefs. You will focus on the ‘omg they are criminals’ and I will focus on the ‘they have been persecuted by the FTC and a small bunch of nut jobs like Moore and yourself’.
Here is an excerpt from the court documents I am curious about….’The FTC told the Court that Defendants “prey” on the elderly and immigrants.The FTC provided no support – the FTC simply said it and expects the Court to take it as gospel. This was false, as Raging Bull has demonstrated. Dkt. 123, at 9, 18. The FTC then pivoted by trying to minimize their baseless claim, saying it was only “one line from the FTC’s complaint.” Again, not true. This false statement was in fact the second sentence in the FTC’s Motion for TRO ( Dkt. 2-1 at 1 (“Defendants prey on consumers, including older individuals…”)) and it was Case 1:20-cv-03538-GLR Document 196 Filed 03/10/21 Page 6 of 62 featured prominently in the FTC’s self-serving, intentionally headline-grabbing press releases and case summaries to the public.’ But RagingBull showed that in a rebuttal that this was NOT the case. Easy to show as record of their website analytics and marketing campaigns were not set to target these demographics. So can they sue the FTC for lying? The lawyers already showed these statements were false, misleading etc. So isn’t the FTC doing what they are accusing RB of? This is just ONE of hundreds of false and misleading statements by the FTC!
Interestingly they seem to ‘parrot’ Moore a lot and provide no evidence hence the TRO was lifted and RB will likely prevail.
Do you understand how language works ShillyMcShill? Claiming that it was only one line does not denote that it has to be line number 1. That it was actually in the second sentence doesn’t mean that their claim was false. To your second point, “Defendants prey on consumers, including older including older individuals…” the older individuals here are a subset of the main group, consumers. That sentence does not say that they prey predominantly on the elderly or immigrants, just that they are part of the group of consumers upon whom Ragging Steer prey upon.
lol so if there was a single one legged guy that signed up for RagingBull, should we say they preyed on people with one leg? Stop trying to explain the gaping holes in the case because of your cognitive bias. Fact is the court sided with them and after spending hours reading both sides – I agree this lawsuit is a farce. You can disagree if you want of course :). Or maybe we say they were racist because there were people of color as members? I bet you are a democrat.
You are not the brightest bulb in the pack are you ShillyMcShill. The court sided with them! What are you smoking? Read Boondoggle’s posts. The FTC is so far up their ass they’ll be brushing Ragging Steer’s teeth in the morning.
Thats fine…..i’ve no problem with them being held to high standards of compliance. They should have had a team in place that did that BEFORE they got into issues. Having enemies like you guys they should have anticipated this reporting etc.
All I need is my subscriptions money back. How can I get this back. Should I hire a lawyer?
Pull all your information together, including the promo that you responded to. Wait until RB reopens, then submit your refund request to the independent compliance monitor that has been embedded in RB by the court.
If they don’t issue you a refund, send your claim to the FTC, so it can be added to the loooong roll of names of unhappy customers in view of settlement.
I’d also file a complaint with the BBB. Looks like companies who ran into trouble with the law now fall all over themselves to respond and issue refunds to public complaints.
lol never ever hire a lawyer they are all greedy dishonest scumbags.
OMG, I have lawyer horror stories that will chill the blood. They are scoundrels of the highest order. Totally devoid of moral character. They are literally paid to lie. Even Shakespeare got it right when he said, (in Henry VI) “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.”
Now, I have to qualify my rant and forworn you that I am married to a lawyer lady. So I am uniquely qualified and observant of how this so-called profession is practiced, and how they mette out misery. (mette isn’t actually a word, but it sure feels like the correct word to use)
Let me agree with JasonPondReturns that hiring lawyers is going to be a fruitless exercise in obtaining justice in 99.9% of scenarios. Whatever you somehow convince a judge to award you for your time and damages will never pay the lawyer fees. And lets not mention that actually collecting judgements are more difficult than actually obtaining a judgement in your favor.
So what should you do? Well, you actually do have a slam dunk case and I am sure you would actually win a case against RB, but you need to take the unconventional path. And this path would be to sue them in small claims court, right in their hometown. File the complaint online and attach the FTC’s complaint to give the small claims judge a sample taste of the shenanigans that ol’ Jason and Jeff has been dishing out to the public. You will likely win, as Jason and Jeff probably wont show up for the hearing.
But then again, how do you actually collect? Well, you probably wont as Jeff and Jason probably have their assets hidden in trusts or LLC’s or offshore titles or in their mom’s name, or any of a hundred other ways to hide assets.
So the potential probable outcome probably isn’t very good. Welcome to America!
I’m so confused – why is a lawyer married to a convicted sociopathic felon ? She should be investigated…..
Maybe they will once they finish investigating the wives of Jason Bond, Jeff Bishop and Kyle Dennis.
That will take forever. Just think about all the fur sellers that will have to be asked exactly how many homeless cats they had to trap to accommodate Raging Bull wives’ change of circumstances . .
PeterS,
That’s a great question! Well, the truth is that you see me from the perspective of the person I was — from over 20 years ago. That’s quite a while ago. People change over time. Sometimes people change for the better, and some for the worse. The key point is that nobody deserves to be pigeonholed and there needs to be some sort of grace for people that screw up. And there should also be a degree of skepticism towards anyone that claims they are “perfect and holy.” We are creatures of biology and we are always changing in our lives.
Now, the question you have towards my wife, well that is a funny story. Back in 2014, I was fresh from a divorce and I came to a crossroads in my life. I had just gotten out of real estate and did pretty well. My (ex)wife and I were that goofy couple you always see in real estate advertisements. We broke things off and I wanted nothing to do with real estate. So I just decided to do something totally different and wanted to become a writer and tell stories. Everyday, I would go to the local dog park with my laptop and little french bulldog. She got to exercise and play with her friends, and I was trying to write interesting stories.
About the same time every day, this really attractive lady kept showing up around 6 pm, obviously after work. She always dressed really professionally like she just got out of a courtroom or something. She was way out of my weight class, if you know what I mean. But I am pretty stupid and have more guts than brains. So, I started strategically moving into her space and trying to strike up conversations. A little conversation here, and a little conversation there, and the next thing you know, I have her laughing and saying hello to me everyday.
So we start talking about who we are, where we came from, all the small talk. Now, you know me, I am a total fucking loser with a rap sheet comparable to Bernie Madoff. Not exactly the sort of stuff you want to wear on the front of your t-shirt. But we kept talking, or rather, I kept pursuing.
Next she tells me about all her legal exploits and yucky muck courtroom stuff. I immediately realize that my chances are fucking zero, because the moment she realizes I am that douche bag in the newspaper, I am roasted like a thanksgiving turkey. She keeps talking and telling me how she worked under Robert Mueller and her specialty was white collar crime and how she did this and that. Next she say’s that she worked in the very office that prosecuted me. I am sitting in my seat and my butt is puckered up because this is the worlds strangest set of circumstances and the gods must have a sense of humor. I am thinking that my clock is ticking and at any moment, my cover is blown. How embarrassed I felt. Here I was, that idiot that fucked up and I obviously have no chance with this lady.
A couple of months pass. I keep saying hello everyday and being nice. But obviously, I would never ask her out on a date. And besides, her boyfriend was also a lawyer with a history of crushing idiots like myself. But man oh man, did I ever dream about her. I dreamt about her night and day. This went on for over a year.
One day, this older lady shows up with the lawyer lady’s dog. It turns out it was her mother. I said hello and asked about her daughter. She replied, “Oh you must be that guy at the dog park she is always talking about. She sure thinks you are funny and weird.” I replied, “yes I am certainly funny and weird.” But really I wanted to say that I was madly in love her daughter. Next, she say’s “Well, she broke off with her boyfriend as he was running for office.” I thought to myself, “wow, I am sure out of my league here.” Then she scribbles her daughter’s telephone number on a piece of paper and tells me to call her.
And so I thought to myself, well I have nothing to lose here and everything to gain. Fuck it. And so I called her on the phone. She answers and immediately demands how I got her phone number!? I said her mother. She said, “you’re a fucking weirdo and hung up on me.” Wow, did I ever feel like a complete and total fool.
A few more months pass. And the weirdo guy (me) keeps saying hello and being nice at the dog park. Until one day, I muster all my courage and decide to ask her out on a date. But I am not going to tell you what happens next, because the truly hard and sad stuff is yet to be revealed. If you want me to write about it…I will. But only if you ask.
The rest is a good story, in my opinion. And it’s a good lesson for anyone that has been horrible in their past life, and how to overcome that pain and embarrassment. But only if you want me to keep telling the story.
Yes please.
Maybe I’ll tell you one of my Chinese war stories about Linling, the flying plates, fire extinguisher and meat cleaver.
Only if it includes someone being presented with some chopped deep fried bollocks.
So you are telling us that:
1. Jewel can be credited for providing you with a girlfriend and later a a wife – if it wasn’t for Jewel taking you to the park, you and Susy would never have met. How much is that (in dog biscuits) that you owe and how are you ever to repay it?
2. you are also indebted to Susy’s mum (your present mother in law) for giving you her daughter’s phone number
3. you married far above your station and should be saying a hundred Hail Marys every day to give thanks
4. most of the clever stuff on this website comes from Susy, the stupid stuff comes from you
🙂 I love a happy ending. What a lovely story.
I am hearing on the grapevine that RagingBull is planning a complete return of almost all of their existing services. The only guru that ‘might’ not return is Nate Bear. The core team is remaining loyal and normal business is expected to return within a few months. I can’t wait! Just shows that their is justice in this world.
It’s going to take a few months to return services?? Do they plan on ever updating us with some sort of plan?
Also Nathan Bear was one of the best, do you think he will return?
Yeh I bet they do in the next few weeks. They better! I will rejoin them for sure if they start some of the better services back up. I was never a huge Nate Bear fan but didn’t really get the chance to really follow his stuff. I know so many people loved him though. Sad what Emmett and others did to them out of hatred and spite. Give it 6 months they’l be back and going strong imo.
Speaking as a RB subscriber, their advertising was completely unethical and I have no doubt they did pump and dumps at least partially. The fact that they made me money doesn’t change that and I have no reason to believe Emmett has lied or done anything unethical. I’m actually excited that they will have to provide a much higher quality of service now and greatly appreciate Emmett for that.
My 2 cents.
omg show proof you have made money with them you paid shill! No way you made money total scam!
Hi Shilly. This is Shillaine.
Remember me from that shill festival we attended together! What a time we’ve had! And what a line up of speakers.
First there was Simon Jousef, making $10 000 per client while trumpeting that he trades his own live account. Sadly CFTC eventualy found he never had a live account in his life but hey-ho! Life goes on – such trivialities are unimportant and we shills are nothing if not resilient. He rebrands and we carry on!
Then there was Jason Bond. Taught us anyone can get out of $ 250 000 debt. Find another six or so like-minded peddlers, decide on their trading history (minimum 20 years), MENSA score and what area each of them would cover – penny stock, options, etc. Make sure there is notable difference between them as you want people to see individual potential and sign up to as many as possible. Set up a firm. And then they signed us all up to help spread the word. I remember you signed that contract for a year. I opted for posting youtube videos (they like british accent).
Then there was a special appearance by Sam Seiden. He was a bit down at the time as he was just being cruelly CFTC-ed and switching between OTA and Pinnacle Institute (needs must) but none of that matters as long as he is up again. In fact I hear he is hiring again . . .
Louis Navellier was supossed to be a guest of honour and be awarded a Shill Academy Award for a lifetime achievement. But he couldn’t attend as he and Trump were away setting up trading course in North Korea.
And then the climax – a parade by the speakers’ wives modelling their latest fashion: fur coats off the back of a homeless cat (needs must again).
Times are changing and I am slightly worried. Too many of our heros have had to put up with their ethos being questioned by the ungrateful public. Still I hope everything will sort itself out and we will be able to continue as before, working for some of the biggest entrepreneurs who ever lived.
Kind regards
Shillaine Ainsworth- Shill
Ok, ok, I think you will like my new! New! Stock picking service….first give me your credit card number. I will give you a no refund policy! Then my friendly customer service reps will put you on hold for 6 hours! My new great service is called…wait ..wait .. How many fingers do I have behind my back! Novel eh?
Nathan Bear was The Best by far, not one of the best.
All the other so called Gurus on the platform should all take
lessons from him. Compared to Jason on a scale of 1 to 10
Nate is a 10 and Jason is maybe a 3. Jason should have his own service
just like Carter from Mastering the Trade.
correction to previous post, Nate should have his own service
OMG. That is some funny shit. LOL. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at “just shows that there is justice in this world.”
I’m still laughing hysterically at the fact that they have to run every scrap of promo material by 2 retired AG’s, who’re also deciding on refunds.
Every scammer’s nightmare!
Can I have your credit card number? I am offering you my new service! It’s called….wait …Heads or Tails! You really are a DS!
Where did you hear Nate Bear will not be back
I have discussed my concerns here before… there are smarter legal experts but I want to mention the small gals and guys. These folks tried the services of these crooks and were shut out from calls or emails! I beg all of you to search for BBB and Jason Bond! I have tried to cancel my subscription but cannot on their website! If I try to call no one answers or they put me on hold! Forever! I got endless emails for better services these Einstein’s chiselers could figure out! Put aside the accusations an put on the victims hat? I cannot cancel my service unless I call them…as long as they do not answer my calls they take my money? F the wives and F the children that some of you have claimed were so precious! F You! A child cannot keep the proceeds of crime! I have had enough!
Just close a credit card or cancel a direct debit or whatever you signed for. Talk to the bank. They should be able to help. Say it is a fraud and mention a court case, banks do take it seriously when it comes to fraud. You should be able to cancel it your end.
Scammers think the fact that they have a wife and children gives them the right to take from your wife and children. Most of us do an honest job to suport our families. Not sell lies then get misteriously unavailable when people take blinkers off and want to cancel.
Well said Nadina my friend. We only think after we have been scammed! Earlier I had included an email from them and my response. I can be accused of a lot of things but a cold heartless bastard is not one of them!
Oops. Wrong addressee
Was this less than 60 days ago? If so call the credit card company and report the card stolen. Request them to reverse all charges. If you used the card at other merchants, you can always pay those merchants again with the new card.
lol oh right – one of the ‘anti-fraud’ brigade is advocating credit card fraud! LOL! Hypocritical much?
It appears that my disrespect for criminals family has hit a sore spot. I wear my negative votes as a badge of honor! For all you down voters…send me your de-nutted steers profits! You seem to be millionaires with excess cash! Otherwise you can go xxiss up a rope! Robbers go to jail, their families cannot keep what they stole! Do you dim witted down voters understand now? Thought not!
you sound kind of cuckooo……you aren’t helping make the hater camp seem more credible!
I seem to have hit a nerve with my comments? Please I want to win the turkey! Down vote more! You POS!
Oh Derek, I feel bad you got so many downvotes. Not to worry, I just gave you an upvote.
I read filing complaint against the Kyle Dennis guy, went something like “He claimed that the COVID crisis presented the opportunity of a lifetime for investors!”
WOWW that’s sooo bad, how dare he? He must have broken so many laws, and also was probably totally wrong so we should imprison him.
Are you guys listening to yourselves? Are you really cheering this on? I read the first 20 pages of the filing and I’ve yet to come across a single law they’ve broken, especially this Kyle guy. Seriously, I’m curious, what laws did he break?
It’s always inadvisable to only read “the first 20 pages” of a 55-page complaint, not to mention 400 pp of affidavits and exhibits….
Thanks for clarifying what laws were broken; and you’re the one presuming they’re guilty so why don’t you read the 400 pages to prove their guilt.
Affidavits of what? “I lost my money in the stock market by following other people’s advice who said they made money in some trades!”…
Don’t mention it, I’m a giver.
That’s what I thought, got absolutely nothing.
Get off your lazy ass and actually read the complaint in full, then write down the citations based on which the FTC claims jurisdiction (it’s all there) and then study the case law.
This ain’t Judge Judy.
Clearly you have missed the point. The proof is all there, you just have to read it.
“”He texted three different trades. I immideately went in and attempted to make the same trade. On each one, the trades no longer existed for the prices Kyle alerted on, however, on his live portfolio it showed that he was making money.” XD!!
That was their leading choice for the affidavits… are you guys serious? Have any of you ever traded yourselves? Looks to me like you losers just want to see successful people fail, and greedy people who want to make millions without learning any skill get their subscription money back because they were stupid enough to believe marketers.
Actually, it is the marketing that is at issue, not the trades by themselves.
If your marketing intentionally omits or down-plays the risk of loss, omits capital requirements to produce gains, over-promises the ease and success rates, uses cherry-picked testimonials that do not reflect the experience of similarly-situated customers, misrepresents the success, credentials, and achievements of the gurus, knows that the window to enter into a trade at equal or closely comparable prices for large numbers is so tight few will be able to enter/sell at promoted enter/sell prices, hides refund and autorenew policies, manipulates the review of products on external sites and harasses discontent customers with frivolous lawsuits, your marketers may create a civil cause of action under consumer protection laws.
Having enjoined RB from engaging in that conduct for the duration of the litigation, the parties now can argue how the elements of the alleged misconduct fit or do not fit the law. The court will decide on the facts and then how those facts relate to the law.
Certainly, direct marketing of financial services is based on manipulating a prospect’s fear and greed. All are. But marketing of these services specializes in the expert, deliberate, and scientific manipulation of that greed by deception, misrepresentation, and omission in targeted populations.
If you yourself are an informed customer who purchased a product not because of but despite the alleged fraudulent misrepresentations, you can double-down by purchasing additional products and maybe life-time subscriptions the day that’s again possible. RB will be appreciative for any inflowing $$ to cover their refund obligations.
Re: your 1st paragraph – omitting capital requirements, down-playing risk of loss, using cherry-picked testimonials, etc… these all sound fair to me so I’m still curious what laws these would’ve broken.
The amount of disclosures needed for the above bullet points would be so dense that I highly doubt 99.9% of buyers would read it, so it would make no difference if they had them there (for all you and I know, they could have)
I know I’m coming off as defending these guys, but I don’t mean to. I know they are likely amoral, unethical pieces of shit and I’d never want anything to do with them. However, it’s cases like these that hinder entrepreneurship and competition. I am passionate about this topic because I was thinking of starting my own youtube channel and later website, and offer services similar to what guys like claytrader and Jaffee offer.
But with all the bs I’ve found on this website about people getting arrested and the laws already being as dense as they are in this topic about what you can and cannot say, I now feel like I need to go to law school and earn that J.D. before I can even open up that youtube channel! It’s seriously frightening. I don’t want to go to prison because some dummy thought he can be profitable all the time and become rich by copy pasting trade alerts!
Direct-marketed trading services avoid managing money because that industry is strictly regulated by the SEC, FINRA, etc. These require “advisors” to be licensed and to adhere to a strict code of conduct, and what you can say in your marketing.
As publishers they have a vastly expanded range of making claims, because editorial copy (the actual alerts etc., educational product) is almost fully protected under 1A, and marketing enjoys at least some protection as “commercial speech”.
In the recent FTC v. Agora Financial (2019), J. Gallagher illustrates through what kind of lens the law differentiates both:
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mdd.467030/gov.uscourts.mdd.467030.47.0.pdf
The Feds have honed in especially on testimonials and earnings claims used in marketing. Used to be all you needed to prove a claim was the email or comment posting of the customer: “Great, made 99% on your XYS play. Keep it up. Orville Mudsucker, Topeka KS”.
Now it looks like they’re having to at least obtain and keep proof that this was available to a representative share of your list. This may become a legal standard, as J. Russell just applied it in his order from last Friday, and Agora ended up “agreeing” to this term in February’s stipulated order.
Financial newsletters calculated their entry point of a recommendation by something like “market close at day of posting”. That means a large cluster of customers would be on roughly the same footing on that day.
With options plays, the window of buying “at or below $.x” can be minuscule, and allows only, say, 100 of your 10,000 subscribers to get in at anywhere near that level. And if the editor’s just crowing “I made 1,000% in five minutes” (bc. his 9,900 slower followers were only able to buy in at higher levels, pushing the price up, and the same on the exit), that statement may no longer enough when used in sales copy to push the subscriber to buy the super special lifetime offer for only $25,000.
If I were to spend the money to start a service, I’d spend the $500/h and confer with a lawyer from the RB defense team (all listed in the pleading) as to what line you should not cross in your marketing claims. I notice some are also familiar with the Agora case, so they should be familiar with the subject matter.
BTW, nobody is getting arrested. This is not a criminal case, “just” a civil matter. Good for Defendants as no-one will go to jail, bad for them because the burden of proof is lower for the FTC.
As to Competition: Transparency and honesty in marketing actually open up the competitive field. It’s no longer those fleecing the largest number of subscribers and, consequently, have the most money to buy the most high-priced professional liars to push their product.
They now would have to compete on quality of advice (=renewal income), customer satisfaction (=fewer refunds).
Less money in that than marketing lies, but hey: A happy customer files no complaints.
This was a super helpful post, thank you for clarifying. I immigrated to this country (the US) a few years ago so I don’t know the laws super well still. It’s just really discouraging whenever I have some sort business idea I have to think of so many legal things where even if I think I’m being good and ethical I might actually be breaking the law. In my country you are skeptical of anyone trying to sell you anything intangible so it boggles my mind how Americans fall so easily for these scams.
So if it was a criminal manner only then would they face jail time? As an example, what would they have done differently, for the worse, for it to be escalated to a criminal case?
Katana and Boondoggle
Sorry to interrupt a really relevant conversation Please continue as soon a I am done – it is good for everyone to read.
I just want to thank you both for taking this conversation to a different level. Nice to know we can talk like normal people, respect each other and learn from each other. Not bitch against each other. Katana, I initially misjudged you. (I nearly asked you to tell RB_back, if you see him, that I am still waiting for those statements he promised). But I see now it may actually be that you are NOT on Raging Bull payroll. At least I hope you are genuine.
It sounds a bit like you did not realise before that a land of opportunity is also a land of fraud. But like Boondoggle says, conducting an honest business may actually pay off. You get to sleep at night. There is still hope for that great land you moved into . . .
Thanks for the reply Nadina. I just want to open up my own business as I feel I have a lot more to offer than these fraudster day traders and forex traders I see on youtube. I feel like I can actually add value – I made 120% ROI last year and not just from a few lucky trades – over 600 trades (not day trading, swing trading and heavy diversification, but mostly option buying and selling).
But instead I’ve spent most of my time researching laws and what I can and can’t say, and I’m even willing to get the licenses needed, but I’m still unclear and left with the option of forking over a grand or two to lawyers to answer all these questions. Like can I even talk about stock market analysis? I read online that even if I say “for entertainment purposes only” I still am not allowed to review stocks or talk general market analysis or I can face up to 5 years in prison. Yet there’s unlicensed clowns all over youtube that go even further saying “BUY this penny stock NOW” which I’m pretty sure is illegal as could be…
Of course you can talk about your stock market analysis, you can write about it, blog about it, youtube about it. This is America. All this is protected by the First Amendment, so you don’t need a license or accreditation. In fact, except for a few mustered-out industry analysts and fund managers, the most most successful editors/gurus in the industry are entirely self-made.
It’s those new perspectives that let you discover unique constellations of catalysts that create good products.
Just make clear that this is your opinion and that you cannot guarantee that you’re right. Mention potential risks.
Here’s what I think:
Once you move to selling your service, continue to tell the truth and tell it well. Don’t make claims you cannot back up, don’t make promises you cannot fulfill. Make sure that your terms of sale are clear and unambiguous. Don’t tell people you’re making $$ hand over fist if you’re down for the year.
Make sure that the nature of your service is clearly understood and can be used by your traget market: Many desperate money-seekers don’t qualify to trade options. Make that clear and don’t try to sell them the service as a Push the button and money will fall out magic box — and then deny them a refund.
Be like Costco. Create happy customers. If they’re not happy, refund them, no questions asked. Focus on products people want to renew to. Make them the best they can be.
All this will keep you from making the kind of mega sales that short-circuits the brains of the scammers and makes them addicts of ever-new cash by ever-new products/promises/sales.
Happy customers who bought what they thought they bought and are getting more than they bargained for will not fill the BBB complaints site or pissedconsumer.com, and where there is no pressure building up based on complaints, it’s unlikely that the regulatory inertia will be overcome to take any action against you.
This said, consulting with a lawyer may help you understand what the law is. Never hurts. But make sure the attorney understands that industry, namely that every element of such a publishing business is part of a sales effort, be that new sale, up-sale, re-sale, cross-sale. Most attorneys can’t tell the difference between old-time media and the hybrid, mongrel entity that is the advice industry.
In other words: if you have indeed made $250 000 trading and got yourself out of debt for the same amount, just keep the statements. You have nothing to worry about. If you have not – don’t claim that you have and then sell on the back of it. Someone will complain and the judge will ask for statements. How can that kind on common sense advice cost $ 500 per hour? Because . . . if they pay for it maybe they will listen.
But why should the burden of proof be lower ? Isnt that just opening people up to this kind of vendetta lawsuit? Just accuse them of crap then hand pick some ads and disgruntled testimonials. Then show the ftc these and let them see dollar signs since the company makes $100mm a yr…..and high profile. Then the ftc can just go in and say whatever and force a settlement.
You are an a$$ho,e! I read further down the thread but at this point you have JB tattooed on your a$$!
lol that guy below is saying RB ‘cherry picked’ testimonials but that is EXACTLY what Moore fed the FTC – cherry picked negative testimonials. RB gathered over 500 positive testimonials (sworn for use in court) within hours of being ambushed by the FTC. Ten times the number. It took in a YEAR of obsessive diligence for these bozos to gather 1/10th the number in negative ones. The FTC was more than happy to run with the negative ones! There should be a countersuit here imo.
They should definitely counter sue me. That would be the best course of action.
I stand by the job that I performed on Raging Bull. It was a job well done.
lol all these haters are like this…..also you will find they spit venom and accuse you of being a paid shill for the ‘criminals’ despite no crimes being committed and certainly they are innocent until proven otherwise. Even the lawyer on here seems to forget that!
Actually, a lawyer knows that, in a civil suit, nobody will be found “guilty” — but only “civilly liable” or not by a preponderance of the evidence…
Katana…have you listened to me and looked up BBB and Jason Bond? If you have not then be quiet! You have no right to comment until you read what a scheme they were running!
Dennis was right in saying that the COVID-19 pandemic provided the opportunity of a lifetime for investors. However, investors didn’t need Dennis’ shitty service to seize that opportunity. All they needed to do is read a chart and execute a buy and hold strategy.
They are just mad he is rich and they aren’t 🙂 this place is a cess pool of hate. I mean it is run by a convicted felon that is accused of STILL committing crimes in this field! What else would you expect from his supporters like DickHead Dog and BoonBum ?
Don’t lash out at Emmett for what is your own fault – or whoever at RB you are close to. If those refunds were dealt with promptly and politely none of this would have happened. RB pissing too many people off is not Emmett’s fault. So now American judiciary is in the pocket of Emmett Moore who is the devil incarnate and we are a coven of witches sent to destroy you?
They are “just mad he is rich”? From someone whose ancestor was killed by the communists and all the land taken away from the family in a then communist country – please don’t lecture me about a free society. You want respect? Give it first. You don’t get to treat paying customers like vermin and go unpunished.
Hmmm, “supporters like DickHead Dog and BoonBum.” Well in the absence of any cohesive or convincing arguments to support your position I guess that throwing out insults is a strategy. I am honored to be included in an insult that includes Boondoggle and I think that Nadina S was robbed to not be here with us. Maybe next time Nadina S.
I made money with options with RB Especially with Nathan. I hope he returns. With just SMS alerts many times I did not get iN at his prices. Once I purchased a second monitor and he put sound on his computer alerting his trades I did so much better. He started doing spreads, which can be confusing at first, yet it was easier to get in at a better price. I hope they all come back.
Hi Everyone. How do you get the latest information about RJ case? Do we need to hire a lawyer to get our money back. I paid a lot to them for different lifetime services. Is there a chance they refund our money back even if they resume the services?
Review what offer you responded to when you bought. If it contained a refund clause, the court has ordered to give refunds when asked for one.
If the terms of the offer did not include a refund provision, either by omission or by express language, pull all your information together, including the original offer with all the promises made and any losses incurred based on RB recommendations, and submit that to the court-appointed Independent Monitor that will be taking over the refund requests.
(They may send out an email blast to the customer base with all information.)
The 2 main monitors are former attorney generals w/ strong consumer protection backgrounds, so there is a good chance that they might entertain refund requests where an offer did either not specify or exclude refunds. The court gave them discretion to do so.
However, they have the option of rolling you into another product instead of returning your money.
When it comes to lifetime offers, I think the argument that any RB product’s life expectation is severely compromised by the 4-month shut-down and pending litigation, is available to you. Since life-time offers are calculated based on annual price * x years (you can figure that out yourself), you may be entitled to a pro-rated refund.
That’s not spelled out in the order, but run it up the flagpole if necessary.
At worst, you have logged your perceived damages for the point in time where restitution is either agreed-on or court-ordered, or when it is possible to join the pending class action suit.
all i know is i paid for a life time elite membership on payments i received a one year option to pay it off the last payment was on 11/12/20 a month later they were shut down. I made several paymens towards the elite lifetime and didnt get what i paid for…
Scroll down RB_Back. You must be getting tired of Boondoggle handing you your ass and crushing you. Keep up the good work Boondoggle.
Its all in the eye of the beholder my dear doggy. I just want my shillin fee’s thats all lolol
You’re just a clueless fool who’s either paid by RagingBull to defend them or you truly are extremely blind to their relentless marketing scamming machine. Either way I feel sorry for you and these crooks will eventually be forced into bankruptcy as no one in their right mind will ever sign up for their outrageously expensive fraudulent money losing services ever again. All it takes is a Google search and check out the BBB website to realize what kind of crooks they truly are. You know the saying: Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice…..
That is true.
Of course, that says absolutely nothing whatsoever about the merits of the FTC’s case, only that, relating to the motions before the court, the continuation of the asset freeze and the receivership do not appear necessary at this time, and/or that quite literally putting defendants on an allowance appears relatively unfair/inequitable — especially if B&B put $10m in escrow that would be available for relief.
Quite honestly, the TRO totally floored me when it was issued. It was truly extraordinary. I have been following litigation in the advice industry for decades and never ever seen something as harsh and sudden. Even Agora and OTA were permitted to continue to do business while their cases were pending.
From the FTC’s perspective, it does not matter. They literally have every shred of information that existed at RB. If there was a fly exoskeleton in a broom closet, they have a record of it. Under the guise of receivership, dozens of employees have been interviewed, they have copies of all emails, all recorded customer calls, all communications, bank & vendor statements — again, before defendants have actually filed a response. Adding insult to injury, RB has been paying the receiver to literally suck it dry of any worthwhile information.
That trove of information usually takes years to accumulate in piecemeal discovery litigation. The FTC got more than they wanted and everything they needed in 4 months… and now can triage the wheat from the chaff without wasted effort.
Meanwhile, customers are getting refunds, and the money printing machine has been moved from giddy marketers to a dour legal team that cares absolutely nothing if RB makes a profit.
But if you believe that a Obama-appointed Federal judge with a background as a USASA/prosecutor and as a CC judge in Baltimore City is likely to side with a pair of white conmen and against a consumer protection agency, I have a delightful piece of alligator habitat to sell you…
Delightful. Not the bit about alligators. How do you guys cope with living near alligators? Makes you grateful to see a scammer instead I suppose . . . Good old Europe. We only have scammers here, no alligators.
Does this mean RB will actually need to run every bit of advertising nonsense past the legal team? They can start with the page on their “experts”
https://ragingbull.com/experts/
Every one of them has been a trader for 40 years, makes 1000 % profit and is a MENSA champion.
As long as the have my shill fee’s then thats all that matters :).
Did you write that or did you just cut and paste? I am/was subscribed to their scam! Early on I learned that if you were green close it before Jason dumped his, otherwise you will take a bath. They were constantly changing services. And if you were to do your own research go to the BBB website and read all of the complaints! I assumed you have already done that? I guess carrying water for the steer occupies all of your time!
I just copy pasted from the recent court document on court listener. I’l ignore your other nonsense.
Please do! You tout These guys like some sort of geniuses. If they are so great why do they have an F rating with the BBB? I will ask again, did you go to the BBB website and read the dozens of complaints?
Great to hear they are back! When are they going to start processing refunds?
As soon as they have hired their court-ordered Compliance Monitor.
Derek is lucky and I am happy for him. Why in 2020 Simon Jousef’s Global Trade Room/The Trader Institute scam did also not get a Compliance Monitor? Court Order was passed and the whole thing given to NFA (I think) to monitor. Nothing came of it. We none of us got our money back.
Thanks Boondoggle. Sorry you are burdened with being our forum solicitor. We appreciate you.
Thank you. Having spent too many years dealing with killers and drug dealers for a living, white collar malfeasance certainly is quite refreshing.
Makes sense that you were a criminal defense lawyer……your defending criminal Moore now! What is wrong with you!? I bet you think Hillary Clinton is great since she got that child rapist off despite knowing he was guilty.
Interestingly, I usually got paid for defending people accused of a tort or a crime. (Here, I merely comment.)
Your defense of miscreants appears to be uncompensated. And they are certainly getting their money’s worth…
Next why don’t you throw in Nixon, Jesus, Elvis Presley and also Santa for good measure. Save your breath. Diversion won’t work. Everyone here knows what you are doing. You won’t give any meaningful answer to Derek/ Frank/many others about their refunds so you attack the rest.
They can’t be back! I am not getting the 15 to 20 emails a day advertising their new new service…Heads or Tails trading….it the other one how many fingers do I have behind my back!
I’m very confused as all these RB proponents want to get back to making money via the services yet no one can prove anyone ever made money by being a customer. Yet there is a litany of slaughtered suscribers whom lost everything trusting these goons. How anyone can defend the practices of this marketing funnel and sleep peacefully is beyond me.
There is a term for that:
Stockholm Syndrome.
Do you think? Yes it could be. Victims defending their abusers. But . . . there is something too slick in their comments . . . something trying to be too business like:
“Raging Bull is open again. Yeeeee . . . Let’s get back to business. Can’t you understand that some people actually make money with Raging Bull? There are lawyers who are happy customers of RB!”
They are trying to water down the criticism (they know they can’t delete it) and convince people to sign up again. Introduce alternative view. Get the company back to normal. Get more money in to continue.
Guys – get real – they are just Jeff, Jason, Kyle, Natan Ben, Dave and their wives. If anyone actually made money with RB other than the sellers, they would happily post their results and make us all eat the hugest humble pie you have ever seen. Rub it in our faces.
Meanwhile my newly rescued formerly homeless cat is sleeping by the fireplace safe from being turned into Gillian’s fur coat.
I don’t doubt that, during the existence of RB, someone actually made some money or learned something of value. It’s hard to be wrong 100% of the time.
(Broken clock syndrome: Even old man Bill Bonner is right once a decade — if you predict a market collapse long enough, eventually one will come along.)
The more money you spent, the more you are invested in pretending you made a good decision. It’s like buying a fake Pollock — you need to appear smart to yourself, so you defend against anyone who, by questioning the authenticity of the painting, also questions your judgment.
In view of direct marketed investment advisories, you do have to separate the marketing from the editorial product. The product may actually be not bad — but the marketing is full of lies and misrepresentations. A very good example is the recent FTC v. Agora Financial, which focuses on a dividend stock newsletter marketed as “Congressional/Republican Checks” etc.
Dividend investing is great! (LOVE my MLP’s sh*tting out monthly payments that are immediately reinvested in more shares sh*tting out more dividends.)
But telling people you just need to put your name on a list to get free money (w/o mentioning you actually have to put in a substantial principal) is fraud. Taking people’s credit card #’s to charge for shipping an e-book, hiding the fact that they also bought a 30-day trial subscription to a $99 newsletter whose refund “guarantee” expires before you actually see the charge on your cc statement, AND automatically advance renew them is also fraud.
So I can see why people defend RB. If they were to admit they got scammed as well, they’d have to admit they’re gullible buffoons.
And who really likes acknowledging that?
I love you Nadina! You are a breath of fresh air and sanity!
Thank you Derek. All of us here help each other keep our sanity in the face of injustice and thuggery that leaves one dumbstruck. As long as we can share it here and do something about it we are not alone. Funny – I have been posting here since 2015 when I myself got scammed. I feel like I know some people here personally and they are my best friends. Yet I live in UK and I’ve never met any of them. I am sure there are people here from all over the world but we share a very strong bond.
Friends for life!
Canada here.
lol Nadina is just Moore in disguise lol don’t be suckered in by these shills
….I made plenty of money using the service…
SHILL lololol these wierdo’s will always think you are lying……they need a good whuppin
Waiting for a single one of you guys to provide proof that you made money. That isn’t an unreasonable expectation and it’s not difficult to provide that proof.
Which service would you like to see proof from ? I can do Kyle Dennis Fast5, Monday Movers by Jason or Jeff Williams Small account challenge. Here is the problem though – as you were never a member how will you know if the trades I am showing in my broker statement match up with what was alerted? Dick.
Let’s have Monday Movers by Jason statements please. Don’t worry about what the alerts said. We trust you will not deceive us.
But I could just show u a bunch of random winning trades and say he alerted them ? Its almost impossible imo to prove this without me screenshotting a years worth of alerts and trawling through my 2 broker accounts to match them up for you guys.
No, show us the last 12 months of your trades. Go on, just do that. I’ll show you mine if you show me yours. 😝
But that has no reflection on RagingBull and the strategies subscribers follow? So what’s the point in that? The discussion here is about the trade alerts from them. For example imagine I am a terrible trader (lol not too far from the truth) but every week I made money from Jason’s service (very true). Showing my overall track record wouldn’t help show you that.
Then you have the opportunity to purchase one or several lifetime subscriptions the very day they send out their first communication to customers.
I’m sure the reps will be glad to hear “shut up and take my money!” It will be refreshing in those first refund-heavy weeks.
good for you, get on your knees
Through all of this (and with his other “reviews,” Emmett is making money. Not much, but some based on AdSense and how these review sites work.
Now that I’ve opened that up, my post here will probably be deleted by Emmett, who is an SEC felon – with self-creditability to review others.
In a recent post, Emmett stated he hopes RB wins for some great writing material. RB has won, so Emmett will now make money if he writes from his mother’s basement via AdSense.
BUT – does anyone recall back to when Emmett was saying he hopes Jeff and Jason’s kids starve? He went from that to “I hope RB wins” pretty quickly.
The guy to runs this b.s. site is getting paid by Google for all of your visiting and posting.
Bottom line= Emmett is a broke SEC felon, RB beat him today, but this site will continue to make Emmett money – the same guy who said he wants to see other kids stave.
So, whose side are YOU really on?
Replying to the Ragging Steer shills is like trying to explain things to a toddler, but I’ll give it a shot. Ragging Steer have not won anything. More misery and trouble are still ahead of them, this was simply the lifting of a TRO but with so many conditions attached they won’t be doing business as usual.
For year Bishop and Bond took money from desperate and naive people causing immense hardship for those people and their families. There’s a difference between WISHING and DOING something. Who’s side should YOU be on?
I am not siding with anyone.
In fact, to any new visitor on this site right now – do NOT click on any ad, or you will be indirectly or directly paying an SEC felon, whose name is Emmett Moore.
I really don’t want to see any kids starve – do you? I won’t be tending back to this, but ask yourself for a second if you’d like to see kids starve.
It’s funny that you say Bishop and Bond took money from desperate and naïve people.
Why?
That’s exactly what Emmett did and continues to do. Google literally pays low-lives of his nature for review sites as corny as this.
So people like you – a stray dog – who likely lost money with RB and are envious – are paying this idiot who can only support himself because people like you (and others like you) continue to enable him to do so.
Congrats – you and Emmett have both done very well for yourselves in life. 😂
Hope you find a road to recovery.
I doubt Stray has even been a member of RB. He just screams ‘scam’ by looking at the ads lol or has some vested financial interest in the take down of RagingBull. We should look into the characters posting in support of Emmett on here a bit more imo. I bet they are some kind of whistle blowing ring that split the profits from taking big companies down. The FTC is always on the look out for big money making opportunities and the ‘guru’ field is an easy target because of their over stated advertising. Not to say many are ‘scams’ but the marketing can be a little over done.
Damn Emmett, Boondoggle, Nadina S and the rest of secret whistle blowing gang. I told you we should have used the dog whistles instead of the sports whistles. This is the only response such a stupid post deserves. Like I said, these shills have no grip on reality.
Yeh you seem like a special kind of retarded hater. Shill! Blah blah blah u probably voted for Hillary like the little beta male u are….
Looks like I struck a nerve. Have you got any proof that Ragging Steer provides education that leads to success or is the sum total of what you have to say ridiculous conspiracies and insults? How about you provide proof of all these people making money from Ragging Steer or how about you provide your verified trading accounts. We know as fact that the principals in this company lost money following the system they are selling, so if the people selling the product can’t make money from their own product how can anyone else?
You know it’s not a legal obligation for traders and investors offering services to be a winning trader for any given period of time, right?
No whistles for me. I play cello in a marching band.
Yes quite. Also I shall no longer be using that cheap rubbish aussie whistle you secretly sent me via SIS. I shall stick to british made. 🙂
Ok troll…show me the massive amounts of money you made from a front run trader like the ilk who operate Raging Sheep?
I’m lying im a paid shill may jesus forgive me
As I said previously, it’s like trying to explain things to a toddler.
The amount of money made from advertising on a site like this would amount to enough to buy the occasional cup of coffee.
Why do I say that Bond and Bishop took money from desperate and naive people? Ah, because they did! Read the documents on this site and read the comments from their customers posted in this thread. Then ask Bond and Bishop how they feel about the families they defrauded with auto renews that couldn’t be turned off etc.
If me posting here supports Emmett so that he can continue to expose fraudsters then I am very happy to be on that side of the trading community.
Finally, I have done well for myself and my trading activity is very profitable. I am happy to post links to my verified accounts if you will too.
Lol so melodramatic! Many people make money trading ragingbull stuff. Noone was in hardship from it! Hilarious how condescending you are yet so biased and clueless. How much is emmett paying you ?
Many people make money trading Ragging Steer stuff! Have you read the documents and posts in this review? Not even Bond or Bishop made money trading their own strategy. No one was in hardship from it! Once again read the documents and the posts in this review. You shills don’t have the slightest grip on reality.
have you tried listening to the people who like the services? Nope. You just scream ‘shill’.
Listen you toad, have you looked up Jason Bond and the BBB? They have an F rating! The horror stories are from REAL people who were scammed!
How money is JB paying you you pos!
Well said. Emmett is probably more in it for Whistle blower rewards. These get dished out EVEN if they have to settle. If you can just get them into a court battle with the FTC even under false pretenses you get paid out as a whistle blower. The sheer power of the government means a settlement is almost guaranteed even if the company is 100% innocent! So in my opinion Moore is a professional whistle blower and doesn’t actually care if these companies are ‘frauds’ there just has to be enough doubt by the FTC (who themselves are in it for the money) to launch a case. In this case the FTC is losing but it won’t matter – there will be a settlement and eventually Moore will likely get paid some kind of reward. Sickening!
Justice is its own reward.
nah i prefer to follow the money something not right here.
No lawyer dodging – have you ever been a paying subscriber of RB ? If not shut the F up you are a shill for Emmett! You literally have NO right to be calling them scams etc.
Hmm, let me see… do I have to be a victim of a robbery to call it a robbery? Do I have to be the victim of a homicide to call it a homicide?
See the flaw in your argument?
lol you are a hilarious lawyer asshole dodging the question – you have some cheek dissing alerts services, lawyers are SCUM! You are saying you haven’t even TRIED their education or services? Shame on you for taking a felons word for it. I still think if this is the case you have some kind of financial interest in this.
So… what I hear you saying is… YOU have to actually have a mouthful of excrement to tell it’s a turd?
(No wonder then that you’re a RB subscriber.)
Thats it blame an educated person! So Einstein show us the millions you made from a front running pos like Jason Bond! I have witnessed and experienced the pump and dump scam from these guys! So GFYS!
I have so why don’t you shut the F up?
How can you look in the mirror? How can you look at your family and not feel shame? You are the lowest of the low!
btw he doesn’t make any meaningful money from this blog – a few thousand a month at best according to an article I read about him and my knowledge of what google ads pay. This does raise an interesting question – as a convicted felon with no other known source of income (certainly none would employ him) then where does his living money and all this lawsuit fighting capital come from? The feds had him bent over a barrel etc. Really only a few sources of income could be possible….I will let you figure out what they might be :). Hint some of the most likely possibilities are in MY opinion not all legal and/or moral.
If you change the letters in your name they spell Jeff bishop! You are a troll!
Scroll down and read Boondoggle’s post. It isn’t going to be business as usual. This is not a win for Ragging Steer. They’ve been released from the cattle crush but minus their balls.
if u say so lol
Headline: Failed Felon Flops as FTC Case Crumbles!
Interesting to see where this goes now that the judge has sided with Jeff and Jason and lifted the TRO. They seem to have plenty funds now to fight this case (in my opinion it will likely be dismissed). But what happens then ? The FTC was spoon fed by some horrendous people (many on here). They didn’t check many of the facts, rather preferred to parrot them for sensational headlines that were false. The judge apparently is extremely angry at the FTC for wasting his time with lies and nonsense. sure, no one is saying RB didn’t over cook the advertising – but total fraud. Ummmm, no. Also, the government investigation does not automatically mean that they are guilty – it just means that corrupt lawyers etc. want a win. They are losing and rightfully so.
Thanks for the update! Great news, in my opinion.
It is great news. Hopefully they bring back all or most of the services asap so I can get back to making money again.
You do not know how to trade? Oh right, the front running crumbs for you service!
Thank you judge for showing their IS checks and balances in America’s justice system to stop this kind of targeted campaign against great companies when felons (moore) decide they don’t like being sued for defamation! TO VICTORYYYYYYYYY!
I am not sure what you are smoking or if there is another source of your cognitive dissonance.
But the order merely terminates what had been an absolutely extraordinary preliminary injunction, namely the asset freeze and the receivership. It also orders Bond and Bishop to cough up $10m in bond/escrow from their personal assets & forces them to make refunds available immediately to any disgruntled subscriber who’s entitled to it under the terms of the sale (i.e., shifting thousands more into the class action suit).
WORST OF ALL FOR RB, it explicitly prohibits the company to engage in any misrepresentation when marketing products. No, EVEN WORSE for them, there is now an independent compliance monitor team that RB has to pay for, who will look at each piece of sales copy to determine if it can pass.
So the bad news is:
They can’t even determine who gets a refund: The Monitor decides.
This is almost as bad as the stipulated order Agora Financial got rammed up their collective rectum. It virtually embeds the FTC in their business practices via the monitor. RB can’t break wind without getting prior approval from the monitor!
(It’s like being used to a comfortable pair of boxer shorts that they now have to exchange for a string bikini, while having two fat guys shoving their thighs into each each leg opening while trying to walk.)
Plus, during the 4 months of receivership, the FTC has had opportunity to do their gross discovery before the Defendant was even able to file a response to the complaint. That’s f*ing genius, if you ask me.
Thanks for clarifyng Boondoggle. So Gillian your fur coat off the back of a homeless cat may not be forthcoming.
Really appreciate the update here. Thank you.
Would you be able to reference the site where one can find the judges ruling? I assume it will be made available to the public in the coming days.
Thanks again.
The order is on PACER, unfortunately, Courtlistener only has a link to that site, not the actual .pdf. However, you can sign up on PACER, it’s free… you don’t have to be an attorney, it is a government resource.
Thank you very much.
Oh… and their future ability to attract top-talent professional liars (they call themselves “copywriters”)?
GONE!
What copywriter wants to be “collabing” with a compliance monitor… who’ll be collecting names and feeding them to the FTC, with each promo piece attributable to a named creator of lies?
Thanks for the update Boomdoggle much appreciated. I signed up for $5K worth of their fraudulent services last June 2020 less than a year ago and 2 of these services were supposedly lifetime (Jeff Bishop and Williams). Do you think I will be eligible for some kind of refund? RB is a total scam and I never want to deal with these relentless crooks ever again.
You should try to contact the Independent Monitor. The order only specifies that those subscribers are getting a refund whose initial offer promised to give one. If yours did not come with a refund term in the sales contract, the monitor will have to make an independent assessment. If not, you still may get one when they settle.
Thanks and will do
I looked up the agreed-on Independent Monitors.
These are two veteran ex-government lawyers, each with extensive backgrounds in state Attorney General’s offices, one having served as chief of the consumer protection division in Mass.
I’d say with them in charge, you may have a pretty good chance at a refund even if the terms of the sale did not provide for a refund.
That bull has been neutered, has a ring in its nose, and now wears pink pompoms on his filed-down horns.
lol your totally Moores lawyers from reading your posts….
Nope. Just an interested bystander…
Who is Boondoggle? He or she a lot smarter than any of the Ragging Steer shills but let’s face it, that’s not a very high bar to clear. And he or she is the author of the best posts I have read here. Keep them coming Boondoggle. Those of us with more than a few brain cells appreciate them.
lol listen to you pretending not to know who he is – we all know you guys are in this sham case against RB together……you really think we believe that people like you guys would bother to post non-stop on here if you didn’t have more at stake? None of you appear to have been RagingBull subscribers? So whats in it for you? You aren’t in the least qualified to comment on RagingBull services but you are OBSESSED with this case. Looking through this site you MUST have some financial interest with Moore or you wouldn’t waste so much of your time posting obnoxious comments.
Call it an interest in justice and you’d be right on the money.
Yes. Who is Boondoggle? He or she could be anyone – a son, a daughter, family of someone they scammed. What a mistery! And wouldn’t they love to know! Now excuse me while I adopt that homeless cat I have just seen through the window. With RB wives running lose and uncertain about the future you never know who is in need of a cheap fur coat . . .
Honestly does anyone care about their business model or difficulties? I know all I care about is them opening back up and continuing their services. You are a lawyer but there are also lawyers that were subscribers that support RB. Are you Moores lawyer? Is this how he is able to escape all the defamation claims against him etc? You do pro bono for him ?
lol every felon needs a hate filled asshole lawyer on their side!
and every scammer’s wife needs a fur coat on her back . . . from a homeless cat preferably
meowwwwww
The only huge assholes are the RagingBull cockroaches aka Jeff Bishop Jason Bond Kyle Dennis who kept sucking people into their massive scam. Their relentless false claims and daily marketing emails were just sickening. I’m a full time day trader and I learnt absolutely nothing from these crooks who were running a huge pump and dump scheme by front running all their subscribers and dumping all their shares after sending their alerts! So how about you STFU!
my my arent u the charmer!
Enjoy those money-making services while they last.
The judge has actually removed any financial upside in continuing the business for the defendants. Operating RB now is as attractive to a scammer as running a shoe repair business near a fat farm for retirees with elephantiasis.
(Scammers hate nothing more than honest work, and that’s all they’re permitted to do under the order.)
The order also gives a large number of defrauded people a shot at getting a refund without having to wait for court-ordered or settlement restitution. That money is coming out of the defendants’ current assets — before they have a chance to squander it on attorneys fees and expert witnesses.
Every honest $ in future profit is mentally earmarked to pay damages.
My guess is that Bond/Bishop will wind down the business in the next 6-10 months, and then settle for a draconic stipulated order a la Agora Financial before filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
Meanwhile, they’ll launch one or several new LLC’s with a couple of new products before they get tethered to reporting to the FTC every quarter.
Just my guess.
I notice that some of the marketers involved in RB’s business quickly set up shop as independent marketing consultants. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if some of their “new clients” weren’t already promoting bastard RB offspring products for their former employers…
Just another guess….
lol are you kidding? Jeff and Jason worked their BUTTS off to make the company what it is today. Obviously you haven’t been an entrepreneur and realized what it takes to build a $100MM a year company! You can’t ‘scam’ your way to that – it takes hard work. My ‘guess’ is that most if not all of their awesome services are back by fall. Trust me, my ‘guess’ is better than yours :).
I’m intricately familiar with the numbers dynamics of direct marketing-based businesses.
It can be reduced to the syllogisms: The more you lie, the more you make. The more you cheat, the more you keep.
Street-level trafficking of fentanyl requires more ethics. Risk is higher, too.
Time will tell just how hard your fine feathered friends are willing to work on becoming an actual business… I’ll give them 10 months.
Just a guess.
Gillian, FailedFelonFlops, SuperTed and Jem, those of you who have nuts just had them fed to you by Boondoggle. I don’t think that you will be rubbing anyone’s face in anything Gillian.
JUDGE RULES IN RAGINGBULL’S FAVOR!!! FTC SCAM by Moore and Cronies is crumbling!!!!
Why, you are positively hysterical. You need to calm down.
Nothing is over. The case still stands and continues. Stolen money is back in the RB wallet but the case continues. The complaint says “Defendants are causing millions of dollars of consumer injury”. Nothing is over. Solicitors, court appearances. Doubt. Uncertainty. Fear. When will at all be taken away again? Equates to a lack of sleep. Bad for your health. Better to get an honest job at least you can sleep.
lol i dont work for them…..suck it! You haters are wrong and will just keep justifying as the process goes along. First its ‘they are done will never recover’ then when the judge rules in their favor on the TRO you change to ‘ah yes but they will fail in next phase….blah blah’ just admit you are on the losing side here!
Gillian
Calm down. The language does not befit you. I too can say “suck it” but I don’t. It is rude. And no it is not over. If it was, thievery and dishonesty would win. We can’t have that.
No, you just defame people all over this site thinking you are on some moral high horse!
But I AM on a moral high horse. They steal. I don’t. And who are you? One of the wives? And when are you getting your next fur coat off the back of a homeless cat?
Were you even a member of RB ? SO far, you are wrong they have not been criminally convicted of ANYTHING and the lawsuit from the FTC is falling apart fast. Innocent until proven guilty. You would rather believe a convicted felon than the courts of America?