Viper Trading Systems
Not too often that someone manages to score the lowest possible score of only one star. But these three trading stooges just set a new worlds record for the worst trading room on the internet. A complete and total sham operation. No performance disclosure, no trading DOM present, no account statements, they completely refuse to provide any supporting documentation that proves even the most minuscule amount of authenticity. Avoid at all cost.
User Review( votes)
Today’s Review is Viper Trading Systems
Viper Trading Systems is a live day trading room hosted and moderated by Charles Boyle, Gary Donahoo, and Richard Straiton. The cost of the live day trading room is $399 per month, which includes a group of indicators with fancy names like Viper Pro Indicators, Viper Apriori Swings, Viper Lightning, Viper Shadow Bars, High Energy Times.
If these indicators are not enough to divine the markets, then additional indicators can also be purchased for an additional monthly fee of $199. These include the Time Trader, Viper Channel Trader, and the Viper True Trend.
However, if you really want to experience the full power of Viper, then you should also consider forking out an additional $199 per month, which gives access to an even more advanced set of indicators including: Viper Auto Fibs, Viper Automatic ABC formations, Viper VipRenko Bars, Viper Auto Zones, Viper Money Management Statistics, Viper Automated Zone Trader, Viper Squaring of Price Indicator, Viper Trend Timing Indicator, Viper EMA, Viper Prophet, Viper Triangles, Viper Right Edge, and the Viper Dynamic Trend Indicator.
The full Viper enchilada costs $798 per month.
The Viper Trading Systems website has a history on Archive.org that dates back to 2010. There really has not been much of a change in the website over the years, except for the shear amount of additional indicators that can now be purchased. I think that it is important to note that the website is named Viper Trading Systems, which implies some form systematic automation. This really piqued my interest on whether they had ever offered any sort of track able trading system. I like when a trading vendor develops a trading system founded upon the logic of the indicator, this allows some form of statistical analysis.
Sure enough, after digging through Archive.org, I was able to find where Viper Trading Systems was at one time a trading system vendor that last reported trading result on 25,000+ trades as of August 2014. For whatever reason, they have now scraped the site clean of any performance statistics or claims of making any trades.
Another google search for “Viper Trading Systems Review” turned up various threads on other trading related sites like Big Mikes and Elite Trader that go into greater detail about individual traders experiences regarding the trading systems. I could find no positive written information for Viper Trading Systems, the biggest complaint was that the trading system could not be replicated in real time.
It appears that in early 2015, Viper Trading Systems simply tossed the idea of offering an automated trading solution and decided to focus on just selling indicators and a live trading room.
Another key observation is that Viper Trading Systems is not maintaining any sort of log of performance inside of the trading room. Neither is there any mention of the individual trading performance of any of the company representatives. The only way to measure performance was to log into the trading room each day, attempt to replicate the trades via simulator, and record everything via Camtasia screen recording.
The Live Trading Room
The live trading room begins each day at 5am PST and then ends at 830am PST. In total, we recorded 10 trading days and about 33 hours of the live trading room. The trading room usually begins with one of the three moderators coming into the trading room and discussing the nights events. And then about a half hour later, the other two moderators then join the room. The action starts to pick up about 630am PST, which is the opening of the US stock market.
At no time during the entire 10 days screen recordings did we ever see a trading DOM present on the screen, nor did we see any orders being entered directly onto the charts. It was just talking. Lots of talking. And I mean three guys talking quickly and excitedly, nearly nonstop the entire time. After the 2nd day of live trading, my assistant, whom was attempting to record each trade and trade via a simulator sent me a message written in both English and Tagalog. Whenever she sends me a message interspersed with Tagalog, I know we have trouble because she will use the Tagalog to insult and say nasty things. She is fluent in English and has a college degree, but they don’t teach English insults in a Filipino University. And so, when she starts mixing in Tagalog then I know she is pissed off and upset.
At the end of day number two, I had her quit attempting to copy the trades because these guys were only verbally scalping in and out, and there was no possible way to replicate what they were doing. There was no “enter at price X, with a stop at price Y, and a target at price Z”.
For instance, Gary would say something like, “there’s the box on the Nazy, dipping my toe, hoping for a coast to coast on that Shadow Bar”. And then a moment later, Richard would interject his message of, “Watch the Bandido, Watch the Bandido, looking sloppy taking 3 quick with tight stop”, and finally a moment later Charles would say, “I got that Viper Triangle with a single on the slippery side, exiting on VipRenko”. At the end of these nearly constant quick exchanges, they would then take turns congratulating each other on taking these mystery profits and how the day was turning out to be fabulous.
And the end of each day’s trading, I kindly asked for a spreadsheet of the trades taken in the room. None were ever provided. their attitude was that by watching the living trading, that it should be plainly obvious just how profitable these proprietary indicators where performing. My complaint of everything moving too quickly was met with the response that after using the indicators for a month, then I would begin to grasp the power of the indicators and that my profits will explode, just like them. I wanted to ask for account statements, but since they wouldn’t even provide any sort of accounting of these wild and crazy non stop trading calls, it was pretty obvious that no live trading was happening. Just a lot of lively conversation and back slapping each other for the making of mystery profits. I can imagine how the layperson would of felt left out of all of the fun and money making.
How It Really Works
By the fourth day of watching these guys talk about trading and making profits, the brilliance of their marketing effort began to set in. Let me explain, as the trading day progresses, the moderators will be quickly calling trades, and each of these trades would be associated with a different indicator. Moderator A would quickly call a trade because the “Viper Autozone” just gave a signal, then moderator B, about 30 seconds later would declare that the “Viper True Trend” indicator just gave an ultra bullish reading in the dollar index and how he just got 5 ticks, and about 1 minute later moderator C would declare that the Dynamic Trend Indicator just fired off a beautiful short in the crude oil and he already locked in 8 ticks with an additional runner.
At the end of each trading session, the poor rube watching all of this gets the feeling that everyone was pulling profits with ease because of these magic indicators. The poor rube is thinking to himself that he just witnessed something fantastic and exiting, and with a little practice with these indicators, he also will be pulling in big bucks.
I have watched a lot of trading rooms moderators since I started this blog, and this was one of the more entertaining, in terms of hustle, chicanery, and misdirection. These guys at Viper are quite obviously not trading, but they have figured that they can sell these indicators by creating a group think dynamic that feeds on itself. The trading room attendees want desperately to join the fun, and enter the race. But what they do not understand is that none of these guys are actually racing, they are just talking excitedly and hoping that the excitement rubs off.
These guys really remind me of three guys at a Las Vegas craps table, they are screaming and whooping and hollering and high fiving each other. And you naturally look at them and want to be part of the action. Once you arrive at the crap table, they are excited and tell you about their “Viper Craps Betting System” that allows them to make quick cash and beat the house. You have no ideas how to play craps, but their enthusiasm is contagious, and so you quickly give them $798 and then try and follow along as one guy is betting the pass line with odds, the other guy is betting the come bet, the other guy is betting the hard ways. As the dice are tossed, one of the three guys always seems to win and then they all whoop and holler and congratulate each other. You are sitting there with your chips all over the crap table, totally confused and you have no idea what is happening, but it all seems so exiting and profitable. The following video clip does a good job capturing the nonsense of this trading room. Watch, and ask yourself if you can replicate this…
Wrapping Things Up
When evaluating these trading rooms, it is always important to remember to not lose focus and not be distracted by fast talk and shiny objects. What matters is performance. And the bottom line is that none of these stooges will reveal personal trading performance. And there is no record of the trading called inside of the trading room. If you watched the above video, you should of counted nearly 10 separate trades that were called inside the span of this 15 minute trading video.
Now imagine having to watch, monitor, and record each of these guys over a 2.5 hour period. How many trades do they call out during the typical day? On average they call out nearly 60 trades an hour. The typical trading day, we estimated nearly 150 trades. Just image for moment, after watching this video, could you possible have any chance of replication at 150 trades each day? Would you even want to? And can you imagine how much in commissions you would be paying to your broker? 150 trades each day, at $4 per trade, and you would be spending $600 each day in trading commissions. This would be insane and a sure fire way to quickly destroy a trading account.
Well, that’s it for today. Yet another crummy trading room with zero performance disclosure, no trading DOM, no trading from the charts, no chance of replication, moderators that refuse to provide a track record of live trades, refusal to provide an account statement of trades. Just a mess of mumbo jumbo from three, fasting talking stooges looking to make a buck by selling indicators at $798 each month.