The Oil Trading Group
As much as I really did not want to believe in Jason Love, he really converted me. A great product. A great trading room. Only knock is that trading can get stressful and the oil market opens very early in the AM.
User Review( votes)
***Updated Review-May 28, 2015***
The following review is for the Oil Trading Group, moderated by Jason Love.
As many of my readers know, I am always trolling for the newest, latest and greatest trader that I can find and hopefully exploit for profit. I stumbled upon Jason Love while I was trolling through the funded traders section of Top Step Trading Group.
Top Step Trading
What the heck is Top Step Trading? Top Step Trader is a sort of proving ground for aspiring traders that have no money to trade, but need someone to take a chance and give them start up capital. The catch is that the trader must pay a “combine” fee, its basically a try out fee and performance is tracked on a trading simulator. If the trader meets the minimum performance threshold, then Top Step (through a funding partner) will provide the start up trading capital. You can read more about the pro’s and con’s of Top Step Trading here. There are some good things about Top Step, and quite a few negative concerns. If interested in Top Step, read the review.
Finding Jason Love
Anyway, I found Jason through his “Trader Profile” that Top Step uses to market to aspiring traders. What really impressed me about Jason is that someone else had already vetted him through an independant training combine. So, I knew that his performance was real and not faked nonsense that we see and read from so many trading educators. He was a real dude that a 3rd party trusted to trade their capital. I wanted to call him and ask him about his experience at Top Step. I emailed Top Step and asked for his contact information, but they stonewalled me and wanted to sort of protect their investment for marketing purposes. So what did I do next? Well, I did what everyone else does whenever they need to find someone…I googled Jason Love Trader. Bingo. To my surprise, I found Jason Love running a trading room titled The Oil Trading Group.
The first thing I noticed. And it did not make me happy.
Whenever I make my first visit to a trading educator’s website, the first thing I look for is a performance spreadsheet of trades called in the trading room. Who cares how well a website looks? The only thing that matters is whether the educator can actually trade. Does he even trade? To my chagrin, NO PERFORMANCE figures. This is like going to a restaurant, and there are no menu’s. How in the hell is anyone to judge whether there is any value? And so, I emailed Jason and asked him…what is your performance? He responds that if he posted performance figures, then he would run aground of the Federal regulators and was concerned that Top Step would pull his working capital.
Initially, I thought that this was a load of crap, and I told him so. He told me that he really did not care, and that I could look elsewhere, which irritated me further. He just told me to show up for the free trial in his trading room, watch the trades, and see if things worked out.
The real work begins.
Trading room operators seem to universally agree that if someone shows up for a trial in a trading room, that they will be able to quickly discern truth from fiction, value or wasted time. The truth is that showing up to a trading room and watching what is happening is of very little value. It takes a huge amount of time and energy to watch and attempt to figure out if the trading moderator is valuable or not. For instance, with Jason’s trading room, I had to show up for nearly 3 months, take the trades, and build a track record on a simulator. Not only must I watch and record every trade, but I must keenly watch to make sure that the trades called by Jason are not faked limit orders and or mystery trades (read more about faked limit orders and mystery trades) Of course, all of this could of been avoided if Jason would of simply sent me account statements, but he refused for fear of the regulators. Which sucks.
Does Jason really trade?
So, does Jason really trade? Yes. He clearly displays his trading DOM and his resting orders are there for everyone to witness. Over the past 3 months I have witnessed him make some great trades, and witnessed him make some gut wrenching trades. The types of trades where I could clearly hear and feel his anguish over the screen sharing software. A few days in a row, he had an incredible run of tough trades where the market would stop him out by a tick, only to reverse for huge wins. With his voice over the internet, I could hear the intense pain he felt for leading his team to a few losses in a row. I truly felt bad for him. He cares about the team.
However, what I will also tell you is that Jason is tough. Really tough. You don’t really know how tough you are until you have been beaten flat and bloody and the fight is gone. Do you have the will to get back up? I watched Jason get back up off the mat on several occasions and lead the gang back into the green. Truly gut wrenching stuff, and probably the most honest display of pure trading I have ever seen. I know for a fact that I don’t have that type of toughness. A few times, I even stopped taking trades on the simulator because of the stress. I really got emotionally involved-even with play money
Can Jason teach his method?
Yes and no. What I mean is that he has had so many market battles that he has developed a feel for where to place stops. Many, many times I have watched him put in a tight stop and the level held like a iceberg holds water. I personally do not have this feel for the markets, and I bet that most of you reading this don’t either. The “feel” was paid for with blood and disappointment.
What sort of performance can someone expect trading with Jason?
The following link is my weekly performance trading with Jason on a simulator on my platform. I think you will find that its volatile, but I cannot stress enough that this is what real trading looks like. Its bloody, gory, messy stuff. There is no such thing as a smooth upward equity curve. At least not in the trading world I have experienced.
This is what sets Jason and The Oil Trading Group apart…
In all of the trading rooms and thousands of trades that I have recorded, Jason is the one of a very few that adds to a winning position. On several occaissons, he would have a big winner and would double down his position, at the market. And many times the market would just keep right on moving and he would turn a huge winner into an outrageous winner. Its takes big balls to double a winning position. Another odd feature is Jason’s extreme short term memory when it comes to markets bias. On one morning all he did was harp endlessly about how the oil market was going lower. The market would not go lower and he would take a loss. And then just a moment later he is entering at the market to go long and adding long positions as the market moved higher. Crazy stuff. How can a person hold such convictions one moment, and then so easily toss aside those convictions and trade in the opposite direction? The mind of a psychopath, I guess.
What You Will Not Like
If you trade with Jason, its very similar to being stuck in a very fast car, with a professional driver, driving very fast around a test track, with lots of crazy traffic. Your will to follow and hang on will be tested to the extreme. Your courage is going to be bent and twisted into shapes you had not thought possible. On some days I was left mentally and physically exhausted from the experience. Some days I just wanted out. I wanted out so bad that I did not want to show up the next day.
Every night Jason puts out a video of trade performance. Its a slow, meandering video of what happened during the trading day. But the video is a complete lie. What you missed were the gut wrenching trades that were made. He gleefully omits the vomit inducing slopes, angles and experiences that will be cast upon you. He has this corny way of saying, “It was another profitable trading day, here at the Oil Trading Group”. All slow and easy and calm like, he makes no mention of the terrible panic and stress of the trades. Laughingly, I wish one day he would just be honest and spill the beans about the gut wrenching rides and the vomit inducing craziness of the oil market.
A Warning To The Weak Hearted
Jason’s room is not for the faint of heart. If you are not emotionally tough, you will not last long and wash out. Making trade after trade after trade, even on a simulator will leave you worn out and tired. However, if want to see how a real trader operates, this is the guy to watch. Many days I watched Jason pull out thousands of dollars on huge trades. It really got me thinking how I would actually deal with making over $5,000 at a single trading session. How would this type of money change my life, could I even handle having this type of money? The type of money that Jason plays with is life changing money. Maybe I like my life simple and stress free.
Jason is the real deal. But, for me, this style of trading is just too much stress. Regardless of how much money I make, I would be miserable with stress. There are other trading rooms that are slower and less stressful, and just as honest. Albeit with slower profits. If you are a youngster with big ambition of being the next Soros, then Jason is your guy. If your goal is to generate as much profit as possible, in the shortest bit of time, then Jason is a great fit.
Hope this review helps and thank you for reading. Also, your comments are really appreciated. Anyway that I can improve my reviews, you need to tell me how. Also, please feel free to call me with your experiences. Thanks, Emmett
OTG has lost money in the last 6 months
Here’s the end result of 6 months of data collection for Jason Love of the Oil Trading Group. The collection started on July 30, 2018 and ended January 25, 2019. While his gross profit for the 6 months is just $1,220 USD for both CL and ES trades, his net profit turns negative when commission costs are included. Maybe this is why he has so many reasons for not posting his trading results. What I do find rather comical, his gross CL trades are negative, it’s only his ES trades that took up for the slack, so much for the “OIL” trading group. Here are the numbers:
Contracts Traded: 1017
Commission Cost @ $3.70 round trip: (-3,762.90) *Adjust $3.70 value if desired.*
Gross CL P/L: (-2,530.00)
Gross ES P/L: +3,750.00
Gross P/L: +1,220.00
Net P/L: (-2,542.90)
Days Traded: 110
Winning Days: 58
Losing Days: 52
Best Day: +1,957.80
Worst Day: (-1,045.10)
Average Daily Contracts Traded: 9.25
Average Daily Commission Costs: (-34.21)
Average Daily Net P/L: (-23.12)
So with a daily loss of $23.12 USD, I think I’d have much better results if I just go buy a some scratch off lottery tickets every day.
Did you find this review helpful? Yes (7) No (2)
High pressure tactics
Hi Zillt you are right Really high pressure sale tactics and alot of 2 to 0ne stuff.
Did you find this review helpful? Yes (1) No (1)
I tried the room twice and you are right. The people in the background are like hungry wolves. Lets set up a time to chat. Give me your phone number, Did you buy yet. Its definitely high pressure.
Tried the trial ..extremely high pressure from Roderic and they boot you out really fast
room seems to have died
It’s still active, and has a YouTube channel with previous videos. I started watching his series on how he passed the TST combine in 15 days this October (2018).
I got the free trial and watched this morning, following along (but not trading yet) on Tradestation, and it would have been easy enough to duplicate his entries. While I watched, Jason took 3 trades: a stop-out loss, a stop-out after moving his stop to break-even, and a $2000 winner where he held 2 contracts f0r 100 ticks. All 3 trades were the same entry at a level Jason had marked on his chart beforehand, he just kept reentering the same trade. It worked.
Fairly odd that he gets a 5 stars rating while the ad banner is sitting atop of the website…
For a guy that hates people claiming “get rich quick”, this sounds quite ironic.
” Can literally plug in and start trading immediately, and expect to earn real money. Positive cash flow, month after month.”
Now I don’t know how I can give you any credibility :/
Emmet, how can you give this OTF (Jason) a 4.5 star rating with these comments?
Emmet, how can you give this OTF (Jason) a 4.5 star rating with these comments?
After being in a few trading rooms…I think that you’re better off trading your own account. Use a good software setup…and trade your own.
this trading room was about as average as most of them. Nothing special about this one.
When questions arise regarding a trading guru’s expertise, level of trust or success it is helpful to check out the guru’s bio/history.
Guru Jason Love appears to have a recent bankruptcy and for that reason we suggest one should be very suspicious of his real trading acumen.
In light of this Emmett might want to reconsider his review.
Coincidentally, while typing this comment it is noticed that Jason Love’s banner ad is at the top of this page so someone should probably take a look at that as well.
What I noticed was there is no picture of Jason and no about us section to learn anything useful to make any educated decision. I have passed into funded on 3 separate occasions in a year. This proves nothing.
My trading strategy is ever evolving. I don’t know much but for being transparent I would say not really.
Would not give one dollar to be in this room. I did a trial two years ago, and when I asked one question, a statement was made to me that it appeared I needed to join the mentorship. All for asking one question. I never returned to that room and never will. Not for the faint of heart.
I found The Oil Trading Group through your Trading Schools.org site.
Please consider re-reviewing this room and take out your fine tooth comb. Without any doubt, the trades, (weather real money or simulated), are transparent. They are consistently drawing down however. I wish that that was not the case as I had hoped to find someone more consistent with drawing up. Perhaps, I simply choose the worst, (past), 4 months of their trading. What does strike me as potentially misleading though is the consistency of them resetting The Top Step Trader Account when it dips below the $50,000 they start with. This happens often.
My contention is they are masterful at selling their product while they are not masterful at drawing up their or their members accounts.
Please pay particular notice to the moderator control of the members chat to include constant deletion of honest and critical member comments. They simply have a free 2 days trial to sell a subscription and they are able to successfully do this through their methods of sale and your positive endorsement.
Thanks or the review. I just don’t believe that they would be on my Best Trade Room List however. My trial experience with them is as you say “messy”, up & down, inconsistent. As many reviewers pointed out, it is hard to judge how good or profitable they are overall without say a 1 year performance record, especially when the daily performance is so erratic.
My other experience is that anyone can be a great trader for a day or a month. Thus 9 day performances mean nothing. The best of the best has to show consistency month after month, year after year in variable markets that can creep, plunge and accelerate at any given moment. With a prolonged period of consistent performance, then I could have confidence in your Best of the Best list. Having the Oil trading Group on that list with such flimsy performance makes me highly question the integrity of that list in general, which betrays the very reason for that list and becomes a disservice to everyone in the end.
In other words, your best recommendations have to be held to a very high standard that very few of us can reach to be of benefit to those of us who look to you for guidance. As it has been shown, even a monkey can pick the right direction 50% of the time, no disrespect to anyone.
Good points. Makes me wonder if the trades in the room are all done on sim. I had seen another room where a host would “add” to a losing trade and then double down or more on the next trade. I mentioned in the room that thankfully it was just sim which I meant that I was trading sim myself. The host misunderstood me and accidentally blurted out “yes, it’s sim!, but..” . Then I realized the guy was putting on a sim show. He also had mysterious trades in the “recap” video later on in the day in the email. Where if it was a losing day, or small win day in the room, he would put trades made “after” the session that would up the profit by thousands to make it look good. Looking at oiltradinggroup’s “results” page as only a record of topstep combines isn’t that impressive. If the host is supposedly making thousands per day live, why does he even need to do topstep combines for “proof”? Why not like RobB suggests they show redacted broker statements etc. For that matter, if the trading profits were so good, why even need to charge 300/month which is still hefty considering 20 signups for a month would mean 6k a month, while 50 signups is a cool 15k a month. As usual if most people find it doesn’t help the dream to profitability, they will leave and newbies will come through the revolving door i.e. the churn rate which becomes the average signups per month. Well, this seems to be an older review, and the standards for proof were not as informed maybe, as they are now.
oh and please do the rob mitcheel oiltradingroom https://oiltradingroom.com/
he has been at IT for years : NO performance reports , zilch.
I think this would be a good scam to re-review Emmett?
It was pretty obvious from the beginning though, what with his “proof” being a topsteptrader account..
Emmett Moore, do a review on http://www.rickackerman.com. he has 14 day trial.
you wont be disappointed.
This group is looking like one of the leading scams as far as trading rooms go.
Please have another look Emmett
For those that don’t know, Topstep Trader is another BS firm that like to sell wannabe traders a dream…a dream of trading with their money and you keep most of the profits. Just pay for the combine that most will never pass. The few that do pass find out that they don’t get funded but need to pass more tests. IF they make it past that set of tests they MIGHT get a very small account (smaller than you signed up for) and they must follow their impossible trading rules (impossible to make money) only to get their funded account taken away from them. They must start over again paying for another combine. Jason is selling this crap to his members, he went to Chicago last year to meet the topstep people. Another source of income for him. Trading is a sure fire losing task when you trade the way Jason does… day trading momentum indicator based style trading using tight stops. Will always lose over time. find more info here http://www.jltrader.com/2015/01/29/get-funded-a-pitch-of-the-trading-dreams-factory/
It’s pretty obvious that you are a failed trader and have probably blown out many top step combines. What you call BS is simply you being unable to pass a combine so now you troll on here because you are butt- hurt. OTG and Top Step Trader are legitimate, however you are not.
So Rick, how much Free Trading money has topstep given you to trade with? I have never paid to do a combine because I know from Real Professional Traders here in Chicago that TopStep is BS. It is in fact obvious that you are the butt hurt failed trader that is still in denial. Thinking that you will someday get $150K of free trading money by passing a 10 day combine where you can keep 80% profits. Keep the dream alive I guess. Trading oil futures with a 10 tick stop loss, thinking you can do what is mathematically impossible.
Did a couple of trials a few months back. Tried again recently. What a diff. New indicators, simulated trading accounts, testy exchanges, super focus on sales and TopStep (seems to be a huge distraction), failed breakout room. What the heck happened????? I really thought OTG was one of the good ones?????
He needs new indicators to sell to make up for the losses in trading that these indicators create. Just another total B.S. trading room that only makes money off selling you crap you don’t need.
I sent an email to OTG about the result on their $15K account, and no joy on the response. Does anyone know what ever happened to the $15K account? I’m assuming he blew that one already, and that’s why he did not respond to my email about this inquiry.
I did learn a ton from joining the Oil Trading Group. 1. Trading Indicators don’t work. 2. There is no such thing as a trading guru. 3. You will never make money over the long term using a stop loss. 4. There is no such thing as a trend.
For one year I saw this all first hand…Jason would get hot for a week maybe two and talk up his indicators and his knowledge of the oil market. Then would go on two to three weeks of losing, talking about choppy markets and bad luck….To The Tick, he will scream the second his stop is hit. Big drawdowns would lead him to bust out a new set of indicators.
I’m sure Jason makes good money, but it is not from trading oil, it is from suckers like me who pay for memberships to his trading site. At least I did learn that all the crap he hypes and all the crap other “trading gurus” talk about is just that crap. No indicator or person can predict the markets. Don’t waste you time with that. Learn how to reduce your basis and give yourself time to be right, that is the only way to make money over the long term.
Ouch. Jason does have some nasty draw downs. All well documented.
This is yet another variation of these sites that sell expensive indicators. There is always some upgrade or some drastic change every few years. A new method. Often the members who paid so much for the old set don’t gt a free upgrade and have to pay in full for the new set. Like OS markets forcing another upgrade, or printers making you buy printer ink. Except often these are scam trading sites that don’t trade real money and show backtested results only. A prime example that has been around a long time is netpicks and their variations. They need to be reviewed and exposed. They have plants in their trading room too.
I am seriously posed now. By deleting my review, your true intentions are shown. I am disgusted that I got duped because of your bs reviews
Why delete my truthful post? It’s all the truth. You are costing people a lot of money with your high rating. People lose real money because if your referral. How much are they paying you? Ridiculous
Excuse me. I am not sure what you are talking about. I dont delete anyone’s posts.
This is Emmett. I never delete a negative post. In fact, I love negative posts. I am the king of writing negative posts, you are just a puppy at writing negative posts! Negative posts are awesome. It keeps the vendors on their toes.
Every vendor gets a few negative posts. If Jesus were running a trading room, I am sure that even Jesus would get a few nasty messages. Please so feel free to air any grievances, complaints, irritiblities, our just be grouchy. Trolls have a home here! So let Jason have it! Go ahead and blast him.
Hey WTF. Maybe quit being a little coward and put up your real name. U talk a big game but that’s easy hiding behind a computer.
Very bad room. This guy Jason loses almost everyday and then abruptly closed the room. Once in a while he will have a good day but most days are losers. It’s better to fade his trades then to follow
Hi Emmett, Just an update on pricing for Oil Trading Group. I spent some time in their room on a free trial basis and liked the service. Unfortunately the room price appears to be $500 per month with a minimum of 3 months. Just too expensive.
Funny, how after that run up in early september it is all gone. Jason was showing his topstep account, after that he was showing his “live” 15K account, with daily PnL.
And one month later, it is all gone. No longer showing daily PnL. No more spam messages about otg trade of the day 100+ ticks.
As I said, now he is in churn mode, burning money and getting whipsawed.
But wait couple of weeks\months, he will get market that acting in sync with his style and there will be another burst of activity.
The only problem is: those favorable days are not that frequent, and he is losing money over time.
Btw, why he keep switching his “live” accounts all the time? It was cqg, then something else, now it is interactive brokers. Weird. Or are they test accounts maybe? 🙂
I no nothing about Jason, but I do know about real world trading and I am sure some if not many will disagree with what I say here. But there is a reason 95% of traders lose money day trading. They trade in what I call the fantasy world. It would take an essay to explain. But in simplicity the fantasy world is where you have a $5,000 account, expect to make $250K a year using an arbitrary 10 tick stop loss, expect an 80% win rate and take home a paycheck of $1000 per day. They expect this picture perfect equity curve that just goes straight up or maybe has a small draw down. The fact is the reason most day traders lose money and blow their account is they are delusional. They do not even want to hear what real trading is like or even look at facts to what are reasonable returns a day trader can expect to make.
Real trading is messy, very messy. You can easily get 30-40% draw downs, which means if you want to make $250K you better be prepared for a $100K draw down. And I can guaranty you the draw down occurs before the winning. Hard to do that on a $5K account. Churning and whipsaw is normal and yes big winning days are not every day occurrences. In Real World trading you might be down for 29 days then on day 30 make all your money for the month. Well I will get off my soap box as this it would take an essay to explain. But Jason churning or losing money for awhile says nothing about his ability to trade profitable. Again I know nothing about Jason or ever watched him trade.
I completely agree with you Rob.
The issue that I personally have with Jason is that when he is on a winning streak, he will post about it everywhere.
But once he is churning\losing – he will try to hide any details about it.
He only shows wins, but tries to hide loses.
And I think majority of trading rooms are like that (I tried a few before learning). That is why they are in a business of trading room, and not in a business of trading.
Anyway. I am also done. 🙂
Hopefully who ever thinks about joining Jason, will think twice, but at the end of the day, we all have to make mistakes to learn.
I agree with you there and I personally do find it a bit misleading. when a trading room has one of their great days they post everywhere then everyone joins and they have a bunch of losers and everyone quits. Few are honest with their members about real expectations.
Ok I dont know where my post ended up.. so i’ll repost. Ok Jason has changed his setup in the 15k account from 1 lot to 2 ,my speculation is he wasnt satisfied with profits or losses. How is it going? though he is at rj obrien is it a real account? as with all brokers they have sim accounts. I have seen Jason trade compared to the 150k Fluffery account offered by Topstep. 2 different animals. 15k account he’s in it for half hour or so.. while the 150 k account its seconds. I must say it is hard trading in front of people all day long… but the cat is getting out of the bag as Emmett and I have discussed whether people can post trades or their account profit or loss.. as it stands.. If they person is a non professional then all is ok. Topstep offers very little, but hope.
1. Account size is a scam ..they offer leverage not true cash
2. Most accounts they go through dont even make it meaning the ones that have passed.
3. Stringent is the word with their program ..in a way , thats good because money mang. is half the battle.
4. I think its better that a person trades a 5k real account none of this paper trading junk.. man it up and lose to your margin call so most places that are conservative such as Interactive Brokers will still leave them with 3k in their pocket.. trade 1 contract only.
Your point is well taken. However, the reasons for not posting performance past results are not as nefarious as you suggest.
Let me explain.
1.) You say my main reason for not posting historical results is that they can be easily manipulated. While that is one of the reasons I don’t post, the main reason is that it does not matter what I do, it only matters what YOU do. Specifically, I have untold examples of people who tell me, “I got the losers, but didn’t catch the winner”. And like I have mentioned before, the reasons are as endless as they are funny; “I had to go to the bathroom and missed the trade”, “the delivery guy came to the door”, “my kids needed to get ready for school”, “I like to take profit earlier”, “My system didn’t agree with what you said”….etc. etc. You get the point. My point is this…did it really matter that I made (or lost) 100 ticks, if you didn’t participate?
2.) Your results will NEVER EVER be the same as mine (or anyone else for that matter). There are many too many variables to list, but here are a sample few.
b. Connectivity issues
c. Account size
d. Lot size
e. Risk tolerance
f. Trading personality
g. Holding for long winners
h. Moving your stops
i. Hardware issues
k. Vacation / jury duty / sick kids….you get the idea.
3.) Trading in the simulator. When you come into our room for the trial, the first piece of advice we give you is to not take any of our trades live. Do it in the simulator. The reasons for this are obvious, but as Emmett points out there are SO many rooms out here that are not of good quality, that you have no idea who or what I am all about. This advice goes to all “new” rooms / systems you are trying. Also, if you decide that you like what you have seen from my site, we strongly encourage you to trade only in the simulator until you prove that YOU can be consistently profitable trading our program.
4.) Results are never enough for people. Go back and read the comments in the latest positive review that Emmett completed on B12 Trader. Excellent Stuff! Emmett wrote about verified statements for B12. Emmett then posted the previous 8 months of history. But still not good enough, in fact there was a request for 8 years of trading results. Really, 8 years? Why not 10 or 20 years? Again, it can’t be both ways…Emmett does all the diligence and we trust his efforts, yet it still isn’t enough. Sometimes people just can’t be satisfied.
5.) “So, you say all this and then brag about a “$9,000 combine in 9 Days”. This certainly seems contradictory / self-serving / counter to your rationale. Yes and No. I know people “crave” performance results. But as I have mentioned above (and in previous) replies, I can create anything you want to see as it relates to results. I could send them to you privately, send those to Emmett or keep them under a locked section of the website and only show those to you when I about to close the sale. Tell you some B.S. that these are my personal account statements and that I don’t want the information to fall into the wrong hands. For the most part no one would be the wiser. The bottom line here is that I go back and complete “random” combines in real time in the trade room. No BS, just a TopStepTrader (recognized industry leader) $150,000 combine. Yes it is only 9 days performance. But, let me ask this…could I guarantee that I was or was not going to pass it live in front of you? Could I dictate how the market was going to perform? Could I dictate market conditions? I completed one in January and made $41,000 in 10 days (By the way, until this thread developed, you did not see that ANYWHERE on my website…just did it in front of the room members.) Could I dictate how the market was going to perform then? Of course not…I go out in what I feel is the most random and transparent way and do “random” audits of our system…live in front of people. Then I come back and show you how I did it and if you have interest in learning it, you can purchase it or not…the buying decision is yours!
Remember, you control the purchase…no one is making you pull the trigger. If you don’t feel comfortable, have enough information or just plain think it is B.S. the choice is yours to purchase or not to purchase.
That is the bottom line. Thanks for listening.
I am asking for your live trading room performance records….
Not your Top Step Trader record or insults.
Once again, trading statements can be EASILY generated with a copy of photoshop and Adobe PDF maker. We have chosen the route of TopStepTrader combines as our source of independent verification. There are several reasons for this…but Emmett has eloquently laid out the case for TopStepTrader in this post. https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/topsteptrader/ As you will see , according to his research only 18.9% of people pass their rigorous trading criteria. We have shown you how we have done it twice this year using different trading styles. In January we completed the combine using an aggressive trading approach and cleared $41,000 in 10 days. In the latest combine, we completely changed the style in which we approached our order entry system and passed it in 9 days. You are invited to read more about those experiences by reading the “Mission Accomplished” post on my website. Also, we just completed a live webinar where we laid out the tools and strategies of our most recent combine experience. You can view the webinar replay on the site as well.
Finally, you can go through the 9 Days where I documented my performance through the combine in the form of blog posts. In the videos that accompany the posts, look in the top right hand corner of the screen. You will see the “live” TopStepTrader Performance widget. In these videos you can trade the +/- performance of the highlighted trade, as it relates to that trading day. Then compare that “widget” to the end of day TopStepTrader screen shot I provide. That is ABSOLUTELY THE MOST transparent thing I can do. No photoshop and Adobe PDF manipulation. Just raw on screen video that has been backed up by an industry leader’s, third party verification of my performance. You can see all of that by clicking this link. http://tinyurl.com/potgjvy
So, as I have mentioned before, I will continue to use this recognized leader in talent scouting as the independent verification of the things that we do.
we all have good runs and bad runs. That is the nature of the business.
9k in 9 days doesn’t mean anything. In last two weeks we saw insane volatility in all markets, including oil. Your type of strategy is aimed for that type of market. But volatility will calm down and you will start bleeding money, like you did in June\July and beginning of August. For some reason you don’t post about those days. 😉
Now, your main reason against posting historical results is that they are easily manipulated, and that is true. But, that is why we have websites like this. If you would post results that are not true, or would go back and start changing them for instance, your current members will notice that and start posting about it on websites like this. Even Emmett does the same when he does his reviews, he records all trades and then checks them against what is posted in historical results.
I believe that the main reason you don’t want to post results is that in the long run you bleed money. To prove otherwise, you have to start posting historical results. Like you did with combine, but don’t stop on 9 days, keep posting. Every single day. And if you are truly profitable – what do you have to lose? You will only gain more members.
Top step trader. Omg. It’s simply a tiny practice type setup.
Who cares if someone can pass it.
It looks to me like this Jason is using a sim otherwise why won’t he post actual trade statements from his broker. He says they could be doctored: yes they could but then the authorities can immediately bust him for fraud.
Clearly a con game
You would be surprised how many educators can’t pass a combine!
I have been in 5-6 trading rooms the past 6 months looking for the best fit for my style and I will say this about Jason…..he is 100% transparent. If he has a losing day he doesn’t make excuses and sugar coat it. He has shown everyone step by step how he passed a “live” Top Step combine in 9 days which is very impressive.
I have a small trading account so I have been very cautious about which room I am going to chose but with his new money management system i think he is going to earn my business. I plan on doing a Top Step combine and getting a large funded account.
In all honesty Tom you sound like the kind of guy who will ask for a month of results and when you get that you then ask for a year of results. You cannot doctor Top Step results so maybe you need to look for a room that fits your style a little better.
You can sit back and miss the boat while everyone else is making 9k in 9 days…..good luck with that Tom.
“You can sit back and miss the boat while everyone else is making 9k in 9 days”
Fear of missing the boat is the surest way to blowing your account.
On a bright side, a lot of good traders went through experience of blowing their account, so, you might be on a right track Ken. 🙂
P.S. Learn how to trade on your own, without shadowing someone’s trades. It is more difficult and stressful, but payoff is much better in long run.
John….I never said that I “shadow trade” what Jason does. I have some things that I also look for and out trading styled are very similar. However I have learned a lot by just being in the room for several days and by watching all of his trade of the day videos. IThe OTG market maker levels are very interesting and I’ve never seen anything like them before. Add to that, the new money management system is truly a game changer for someone like me who has some bad habits. I don’t know about you John but I would rather learn from someone who’s been doing it successfully for a very long time rather than sit back on my own and blow out my account repeatedly.
And you might want to check your stats John because Jason was on fire the first half of June so it seems like you are going out of your way to try and discredit his results. I do find it somewhat funny that he starts putting up results and guys like you continually make excuses as to why they’re not sufficient enough. Sounds a little like sour grapes when you say “making 9K in 9 days is nothing.”
I doubt you made 9K in 9 days John….
According to your most recent post, 9 days of TopStepTrader combine is not enough results. But by your estimate 17 days is enough. As this is the amount of time you claim to have witnessed my trading.
Ok, if we can agree that 17 days is enough of a performance record, for you to post on this site that I am a fake, then I invite you go go to this link http://tinyurl.com/nv9fs25 and look at the results for the previous 21 trading days that have been recorded since August 10th. During this time we are +1,320 ticks .
I use the TopStepTrader combines as a 3rd party verification system, because it is WAY TOO EASY to fake any other type of performance result statements. Photoshop, PDF’s etc, can be manipulated….TopStepTrader provides me with the ability to provide independent verification in the form that many many traders will recognize.
In the future I will do more of these combines for verification purposes. In the interim, read more about my experience with this most recent combine, along with the other successful combines i have traded. http://tinyurl.com/n98mfjh
Good response “J”, TopStep tells it like it is, there is no doctoring results. You’ve been a great mentor and a long time friend and having to deal with angry, bitter folks like ol’ Tom is a real bummer. It is what it is and I want to say congrats on your recent conquest of the illusive TopStep Combine.
Tom: head on over to Big Mikes, they love negative guys like you……you’ll fit right in.
If you’re the real deal you would post your performance record. I believe you loose money in your live trading room and are afraid to post the actual results. I was in your trading room for 17 days and saw you loose (results were listed in an earlier post). Having a successful 9 day Top Step Trading Combine does not make you a profitable trade. Your a fake, just like all the others, that’s why you won’t post your trading performance. What are you hiding???
17 Days!!!!!!????? The trial is 2 days. Tom, you are “scamming” to get more than the 2 days; don’t like what you see? Move on!
I have been reading and keeping up with Emmett’s site since I was made aware of its existence. While Emmett’s review of our product / site was mostly positive, the comments have not always been as positive. You know how it goes…good news is never that interesting…we all want to see and talk about the negative, real or imagined.
I get it.
People have the right to their opinions and I am not here to dispute the reality of someone else’s experiences. What I would like to do is share some facts with you.
I just recently completed another successful combine with The TopStepTrader program. As you can read from Emmett’s review of TopStepTrader. (https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/topsteptrader/) Emmett does a VERY thorough review of this site and he gives them very high marks. Additionally, you will note that Emmett tells you that you must bring your “A” game to make it through their grueling combine process.
Well, I am pleased to tell you that we have successfully completed another TopStepTrader combine. We will periodically run through a TST combine for our students and guests to provide independent 3rd party evidence that our process and program can be successfully traded.
If you cut and paste this link ( http://tinyurl.com/n98mfjh ) into your browser I detail out for you the $9,000 in 9 trading days that we just completed in the TST combine. Also, I give you additional information on some other successful combines that I have completed.
Finally, we have successfully assisted 8 Oil Trading Group members make it through the TST combine process. Our most recent member was Mark F and I believe and interview (conducted by Emmett) will be posted here soon.
The bottom line here is that I feel that Emmett is doing a good job in his efforts to police the trading industry and I have been able to use the constructive feedback from this site to enhance the products and services that we offer.
Thanks again and best of luck with your trading!
I got the free trial and was in the room for one day and that was painful. Ok, everybody has bad days and maybe that was just one of them for Jason, but what bothered me the most was his strategy. He draws lines on the asian and London ranges and uses those as guides, so far so good. When the price was going up, he would set some limit buy orders on a price above the price traded. So if the Market confirmed it was really going up he would be in long. The problem with this strategy is that when he got in, it was already a chase and soon enough the Market would reverse taking his stop losses, just before moving in the direction he wanted. Entry points are key, and his were not good at all. He would be green for a while but, since he goes for big targets (like 100 ticks), the Market would reverse before he was able to take profits. Also because of this scale in/ all strategy he is using. If he took at least some of the profits he would be green. Most of the times he was buying it on a chase when I was already seriusly considering shorting it. Maybe he is profitable, I dont know, but I really dont like the strategy since it doesnt suit my style.
The Oil Trading group is worthless. I paid $1,800 for a 3 month subscription. I recorded the live trading room and reviewed the trades at the end of the day. The following are my results. Jason is the trading room moderator. Jason posts “Trade of the Day” videos almost every day. Don’t be confused, Trade of the Day winnings are only for one trade and are not representative of the profit/loss for the entire day. Trade of the Day videos have no informative value (anyone can win one trade). Trade of the Day is meant to mislead you into thinking Jason has a winning system which he does not have.
Daily results for Jason… trading CL futures contracts
6/17/15 +118 ticks
6/18/15 +0 ticks (broke even)
6/19/15 -208 ticks, 8 trades, finished at 1:50pm EST (always starts at 8:45am EST)
6/22/15 -284 ticks, 9 trades, finished at 1:00pm
6/23/15 +171 ticks, 3 trades, finished at 10:30am
6/24/15 +43 ticks, 5 trades, finished at 10:30am
6/25/15 -280 ticks, 15 trades, finished at 1:30pm
6/26/15 +14 ticks, 5 trades, finished at 11:00am
6/29/15 -214 ticks, 10 trades, finished at 11:50am
7/2/15 -236 ticks, 4 trades, finished at 9:30am
7/7/15 +68 ticks, 18 trades, finished at 11:50am
7/8/15 +105 ticks, 10 trades, finished at 12:15pm
7/9/15 -256 ticks, 14 trades, finished at 1:30pm
7/10/15 -26 ticks, 5 trades, finished at 10:30am
7/13/15 +43 ticks, 11 trades, finished at 11:30am
7/15/15 +64 ticks, 2 trades, finished at 11:00am
7/21/15 -239 ticks, 11 trades, finished at 11:50am
Total -1,117 ticks ($11,170 loss) in 17 days of trading
Wow, that is an ugly, ugly run of trades. How many lots per trade?
I also experienced some nasty draw downs, but I also experienced some awesome run ups with Jason. The biggest draw down that I recorded was $5,800…but yours is nearly double. In my reviews, I hardly talked about drawdowns because I knew they were rough. And this is the reason why Jason does not openly post results because with numbers like this, whom would subscribe? The oil market is tough.
That is lame reason, sorry Emmett, but I think you are biased.
You saying that with draw-downs like that no one would subscribe.
Well, let’s imagine that his results for the year would show:
Worst draw-down: $25,000.
Would you subscribe? I think so. Even that draw-down is bad, but overall you are still in solid profit. And seeing historical results like that would only give you reasons to stick with Jason, as you know that previously it worked out.
Reason why he doesn’t post results is that his final PnL for a year is probably really small or even solidly negative.
He charges crazy amount for his trading room and rushes you to subscribe ASAP, giving you only two days of free trial. This is scam and nothing else.
I agree with Tom regarding Trade of the Day. Quite often Jason would be in the red, than he would catch his trade of the day, barely make it break-even for the day and call it a day, since he got his trade of the day and can post on website, letting you think that he finished day with solid profits. Majority of the day he finished in the red or at break-even at best.
If someone considers signing up, at least don’t be rushed, use fake email\names and keep getting 2 days of trial and look at his room for at least two weeks, preferably a month, before you will risk you hard earned money.
That is a very good idea as 2 days is only enough time to sucker punch you in.
Well, that might have been but his drawdown period, don’t you think so ?
Thank you Emmett for this clear review, much appreciated
Great site… I like reading your reviews.. you put in a lot of work!
He must be trading a large account, if your stressed with size/risk you can risk half or a third etc.
Too bad the data feed required though
They may be legit, but everyone should know that if you buy their tools, you have to keep paying them subscriptions to get the data that those tools use.
The hard-sell is not welcome either.
When I look to trading rooms/systems I look at longevity and the way they treat members. OTG used to have a London trading room, which not that long ago they were selling “lifetime” memberships to for a pretty-penny. All of a sudden that room was shut down, no reason, no explanation, no communications, nothing. Not impressed.
So, I was in 2 days trial. I’ve made about 15 trades and was down about 2500 bucks.
The guy is indeed a trader. The problem I found is it will be hard to cope with all his trades since maybe more of half of them was entered before he finished to call them and I was left behind the price action. Since his first target is many times 10 ticks and after that moves stop loss to BE 1 or 2 ticks difference in entries will make a difference in final trading results.
One will find nowhere any kind of past trades result, even the last one so can’t be objective about how close is in mirroring the master.
..so if you don’t want to put the full log at least please put something like this: 7 losing trades in a row with a DD of 1500 USD.
Agreed! My reviews are definitely evolving. Am working on getting videos up with a time line on the video player, that way you watch the video and jump to the trade entry and exit without have to sit through hours and hours of waiting.
By far the biggest pain the ass is having to review video and waiting for something to happen. Currently export the video out of Camtasia and replay at 2X using a product called enounce. This allows video playback without distortions in sound quality.
Let me know of any other improvements.
I understand what you mean, but as far as I can see on his site now he has paid trial for minimum 3 month. Free trial is only 2 days.
I would like too see a 3rd party trading performance log to see if I can handle his draw down periods since I know very well how much heat I am capable to handle. If his DD is above my limit I will spare my time and money with these 3 month trial.
I can’t find the link to the “weekly performance trading with Jason”
Is it still available ?
You noticed that. Jason has never posted results on his website. When I went into the Oil Trading Group review, I thought for sure that Jason was BS. But he is not. I recorded several months of live trading sessions. I got to see the real blood and guts of his style. I won’t lie, its not for the faint of heart because trading crude oil is very volatile.
I called Jason and really pressed him on posting performance resorts on his website. He is terrified of the CFTC and posting results is a clear violation. In fact, everyone doing it needs to be registered as a CTA, but the CFTC has been very lax in recent years. So what are you to do? Dont believe my review. And dont believe anything that Jason tells you, or anything you read. Download a free 30 day copy of Camtasia recording software, then sign up for a trial account. Turn on the recorder during trading hours, but don’t sit there and watch the trading session. Collect a weeks worth of video. Replay the video and record the trades in a spreadsheet. This will give you a clue. Next go back and sign up for 3 additional trials using 3 different email addresses and make sure your browser is in Incognito mode (hides the IP). Record an entire month. Be meticulous about it.
You should do this with every one of these trading vendors. Heck, if my mother started her own trading room, I would record it and parse out the trades with a flea comb. I trust nobody in this crazy business. Not even my mother.
You still didn’t answer why you don’t post your simulated trades from Jason’s room. And Jason (if he said that) and you are wrong: I spoke with the NFA on two different occasions, and they ENCOURAGE a person/room to post all of their results. And you do not have to be a CTA to do so. You have to be a CTA to give investment advice, not to post your results.
And, though he may not post results, he says in his videos how many ticks that he made. No different than posting results.
Thanks for your comments. Its been a while since I visited Jason’s room. Its about time for a new review.
Not sure if you are aware, but Jason is a trader for a registered prop trading group, Top Step Trader. I have not taken a look in several months. Do you have anything that you would like to report?
I agree with your assessment on posting ticks on the videos, but not the website. But the guy is terrified of running afoul of the regulators and or upsetting Top Step. Regardless, its time for a new review.