MES Capital *Update*

MES Capital
  • Verified Trading Capital
    (5)
  • Verified Traders
    (5)
  • Transparency
    (3)
  • Reputation and Affiliations
    (4)
  • Clearly Defined Funding Program
    (2)
3.8

Summary

Sometimes I get these reviews wrong. With regards to MES Capital Group, I got this one dead wrong. The original review stinks. It was written from a skewed perspective, and since I was not able to personally speak with the ownership, I acted like a petulant child.

Since the original review was written, I have been personally contacted by both funded traders as well as traders that have flunked out. I have also been contacted by large amount of traders that did not pass the evaluation period, and the company subsequently never attempted to sell them anything. My suspicions of some nefarious conduct where way off the mark.

The comments section of the original review contains a large amount of helpful and enlightening comments from various MES Capital participants. In fact, several funded traders have written about their experiences in that section.

Comments Rating 4.55 (33 reviews)
Pros: A legitimate, high level trading opportunity. Absolutely zero costs. Anyone can try out. Real trading accounts are awarded to the best and brightest. You will not be pitched into purchasing education, indicators, or worthless trading mentorship programs.
Cons: The only complaint is that there is no clearly defined demarcation line that qualifies or disqualifies a person from receiving a fully funded trading account. The company is assesses new traders on a case by case basis.

Thanks for reading today’s updated review on MES Capital Group

On January 1, 2016 I published a review of MES Capital Group. The original review was a pretty good thrashing of the company. If you read the original review, you probably walked away thinking that the company was a scam. The basis of my negative review was based upon the following assumptions: I could not verify whom actually owned the company, I could not verify the existence of trading funds used to fund traders, the company stonewalled even the most basic questions, the female administrator of the company was rude and secretive in multiple email exchanges, and finally, the company was linking out to several websites that I had prior negative experiences.

In addition to having a difficult time with the company representative at MES Capital, I also carried into the review a very negative bias. Why would I have a negative bias? Quite simply, in the past year, I have written about several companies that were outright frauds. The common theme was that a person could possibly receive company funding to trade, but they must first purchase a suite of $6,000 indicators or purchase a “training” program for anywhere from $3,000 to $20,000. If you have spent any amount of time on the TradingSchools.Org blog, there are plenty of negative reviews that you can find that highlight and expose this scam. The commonality of the scammers are that they refuse to verify if any traders have ever been funded, and if an actual trading account exists that could support more than a single funded trader.

The funded trader scam rubs me raw. Really raw. The people most effected are usually the most desperate. Many fell into the scam believing that they were getting an actual job. Others spent thousands of dollars and were convinced that they would be able to soon quit there current job and begin trading fulltime.

One scammer in particular actually paid someone to fulltime post Help Wanted ads in craigslist.org. The target had to first spend a $49 fee to download a free copy of Ninja Trader. After the target downloaded and installed Ninja Trader, they then traversed a nightmare of upselling and creative storytelling by the owner. All meant to lure the victim down the primrose path, every step used to drain their personal credit cards even further. For many, this nightmare scenario ended only when the victim finally had exhausted themselves trading on nothing but a simulator. Some even passed these “trading tests” and had jumped through all of the prerequisite hoops and fully expected to receive a funded trading account. They only wanted the opportunity that was promised to them. However, what they later discovered was that entire series of educational events and trading simulators were just a series of barbed wire fences that mercifully ended at a crocodile moat.

So Many Scams

Admittedly, I went into the MES Capital review with the attitude and preconception that THIS MUST BE TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. Like a old dog that had known only a life of abuse, deception, and the ugliness of mankind…perhaps my eye was too yellow and cloudy. After seeing so much fraud, perhaps I prematurely jumped to an aggressively negative conclusion.

When I drafted the original review, it was so provocative and accusatory, that I was hoping to “smoke out” the truth. Surely, once the review was posted, the truth would be easy to capture. I expected that a flood of emails would come into my inbox, and there would be messages that people had failed the combine and were then instructed to purchase an educational package from one of the selected trading educators. If a person purchased the education, then they would be given some sort of priority to receive a funded trading account. Surely, it had to be a scam. Right?

Another thing I wanted to see was whether any funded accounts would contact me directly, and come to the defense of the company.

It was sort of a perverted experiment. Time would tell.

Discovery

In the last two months, I have been contacted by dozens of people that had taken the free trial. Not a single person that failed the trial was marketed even a single trading product, educational course, indicator package, or nutty mentorship. I expected the exact opposite. And I got it dead wrong. Instead, a literal army of people came to defend the company. And these were not the usual shills that troll the comments section of the blog. These were unique IP address’s from all over the globe.

Some of the comments that I receive included,

This review is whack.

I got funded and your an idiot.

You are just a shill for Top Step Trader

 

And so, I have to be honest that during the year 2015, I earned $2,100 from Top Step Trader. Oh, and I got two frozen pizza’s sent to me as a thank you. Maybe it did influence my perspective a bit. Maybe it influenced my perspective a lot. It did influence my perspective.

Real Traders

During the last two months, I have been contacted by three traders that have been funded by MES Capital. Two of the traders received a funded account and promptly blew it up. The third is still with the company and is really happy. In fact, he made me promise to not mention his name as it might hurt his status with the company. Apparently MES Capital was really pissed off about the unfair review. And truthfully, I feel terrible about making some pretty wild accusations and connecting dots that were spaced between far reaching planets. In retrospect, the fuel for the negative review was fueled by an ugly combination of dealing with so many scammers, being paid by Top Step Trader, and being initially stone walled by MES Capital.

Obviously, I got it wrong. The company funds traders, and is probably the most deserving company of a positive review that I have written about. Whom else in the trading arena is willing to give a retail trader a free shot at anything? Most trading vendors just see retail traders as suckers and idiots, but this company decided to get down into the mud and try and find a few gems.

Conversation with an MES founder

Finally, during the final week of February 2016, I received an email from one of the founders of MES Capital. He had some issues regarding privacy and asked to speak with me directly. We exchanged phone numbers are procceded to have a very pleasant telephone conversation.

One of the things that we talked about was the early stage of MES Capital. Apparently, with a hilariously laughable naiveté, the guys as MES Capital decided to run an advertisement and simply hire some good traders. They went about finding full time professional traders in pretty much the same way a convenience store would hire a clerk to sell candy bars and soda pop. Predictably, the initial attempts at hiring professional traders was an absolute nightmare and they essentially gave away 6 figures on a bunch of people that had convinced them that they were the second coming of George Soros.

After hearing about all of the failure, lost money and frustration, it dawned on me with a real sense of dread that these guys got a really bad deal from me. The last thing they needed was a moron writing negatively and causing even more problems.

So the real question that readers probably want to know is whether the MES Capital model of funding what are traditionally the weakest market participant’s, is it profitable? In speaking with one of the founders, it is profitable. But it is not the easy money cash cow that they had envisioned. They are in fact taking on a massive amount of risk and the funded traders assume none of the liability. Juxtapose the position of MES Capital vs Top Step Trader, and you cannot help but cheer for the company that is not placing participants onto a perpetual hamster wheel.

What you should immediately do

If you are interested in becoming a funded trader with Top Step Trader, you should put it on hold. The first step should be to attempt to become a funder trader with MES Capital. It costs nothing, and you will not be sold anything. Why spend $200 dollars a month for the opportunity to run on the Top Step hamster wheel, where nearly everyone eventually fails? Why not first thoroughly exhaust all available free options before going out of pocket? I recommend it. I should of recommended it earlier. And for that I can only apologize and try to make things right.

Wrapping things up

If the owners of MES Capital read this update. Hopefully, they are gracious enough to accept my apology. I truly mean it. And for all of my haters out there on the internet, this would be a great time to get out your Billy clubs and write something nasty about me in the comments section. I certainly deserve it. But I am also human, and like everyone else on this planet, irrevocable bound to constant stream of mistakes.

One final note, if I had to come up with a critique of MES Capital it is that the company does not have a “set in stone” series of steps that guarantee funding. Even if your simulated or real results are sterling, for whatever reason, they still might not like your style of trading. At the end of the day, its their money, and they can and should allocate it to only the best and brightest.

 

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sam
sam
3 years ago

admin could you do update on tradenet meir barak

mark
mark
3 years ago

MES has joined with One Up Trading and now seems to have duplicated the TopstepTrader model

chuck
chuck
2 years ago
Reply to  mark

I just saw that too. One Up trading does seem to have better loss limits than Topstep trader though.

BCBryant
BCBryant
3 years ago

I signed up for an evaluation and they provided ABSOLUTELY no help. This is a lazy bunch and good luck if you think you’re getting your money from these guys.

M M
M M
3 years ago

Hi amt-trader, could you please describe your trading method more in depth please. Things such as: number of trades, biggest win/lose, average win/lose, did you use SL/TP, were you consistent with your trading style etc. thanks in advance

amt-trader
amt-trader
3 years ago

I was just evaluated by MES, adhered to their rules and exceeded their profit target, but was turned down for funding. I would say the experience with them was positive, no nonsense, but the only downside as mentioned is there are no clear published criteria for passing or failing their evaluation. Their welcome email says adhere to the rules, hit the target and you will be funded – in my case this wasn’t to be….

M M
M M
3 years ago

Hi Emmett, thank you for the all reviews so far. Regarding the funded members at MES, any new stories to tell? I saw you have mentioned 3 funded guys in this review, did they show you any kind of proof that they were/are funded?

CharlesB
CharlesB
3 years ago

Ahhh – Apophenia cuts both ways. Connecting the dots can be negative as well as positive. Great article!

Ben Cai
3 years ago

Emmett Moore, thank you for the honest and thorough reviews of different trading firms and schools. Coming from a military background, it’s hard for me to wrap my head around people that are making a dishonest living. I just sent my trading statements to MES Capital and just got approved for the 30 days simulated trading test. I will keep you up to date on that goes. Again, thank you for doing all the diligent work my man. Keep up the good work!

jnbadger
jnbadger
4 years ago

I was just accepted as a funded trader with MES. I submitted 5 days of sim trading. Was accepted for the 20 day trial, and downloaded the software with no problem. The process was smooth, so i don’t know what AJ is referring to. And someone always responded when I contacted info@mescapital… I went through the trial and barely hit the minimum number for consideration, but I was very consistent, and my winning days were much bigger than my losing days. This is important, because i have read of other traders not getting funded, even though they hit the number.

I am just giving this a shot, and i’ll see how it goes. I was never asked for any money of any kind, but I learned after I passed that the split is 50/50. There is nothing about a non-compete in the trader agreement, so I am keeping TST, and possibly even Savius as back up options.

But I did like the fact that you are only able to attempt their trial once every 12 months. I ended up liking the pressure of not having the option to reset the account, because I learned what I could really do when I was down to the wire.

Anyway, I submitted the agreement, and should start trading the week of 7/25/16.

jnbadger
jnbadger
4 years ago
Reply to  Emmett Moore

Thank you Emmett. I guess I’m not really leery, but I am taking it with a grain of salt. If that makes sense. I’ve been in this business as a stock trader for a long time, and I’ve seen all kinds of “deals”. This one feels good. That’s the only way I know how to put it. There is zero risk on my end so far.

I am new to your sight (after doing a search for MES, lol), and appreciate what you are doing. I will keep you posted.

raj
raj
4 years ago
Reply to  jnbadger

I went through the trial and barely hit the minimum number for consideration, but I was very consistent, and my winning days were much bigger than my losing days. This is important, because i have read of other traders not getting funded, even though they hit the number.

Hi
How did you know that the winning days need to be greater than loosing ones? Are you Mes Insider? They never mentioned in their parameters and never do they give feedback or reason about failure. I just completed 3 days ago and met their parameters, but they didnt fund me.

Dont write false reviews on behalf of MES trying to glorify the company.
You seem to be an employee of MES only.
At least top step trader have clear cut rules and if we achieve the target within the rules, they really fund us.
Not like MES, no clear rules, no clear parameters, total secrecy and nothing good.

Dont write reviews on behalf of MES or being MES and misguide all others to waste their time.

Dont waste your time with MES. Nothing is free in this world. Pay to TST and achive real funding.
Otherwise at the end of everything, like me, you will feel that you wasted your time with MES.

It can be better utilised with TST at least or your own trading account .

skeet
skeet
4 years ago
Reply to  raj

What are the buisness angle of scamming ppl for MES?

raj
raj
4 years ago
Reply to  skeet

really dont know. Maybe they just want the best of the best traders, but if they say all their criteria, then no one will sit in the trial. So, they dont disclose all parameters.
I regret to waste over a month to successfully complete their trial.
Nothing is free, I lost my valuable trading time

jnbadger
jnbadger
4 years ago
Reply to  raj

I’m just sharing my experience with them, and i will continue to do so if I have a bad experience. No false review, here. You are obviously bitter, but that’s your problem. And in their FAQ’s, it says they do have a minimum target, but they also look at your risk vs reward. It doesn’t take an insider to read the FAQ’s.

Metal Trader
Metal Trader
4 years ago
Reply to  raj

There is more to being a good trader than hitting profit targets on a simulator. How was your “in trade” draw down? how many trades did you take? I have done risk management in the past and the long term guys tend to have similar trading habits, they keep tight stop losses, scratch a lot of trades “breakeven trades basically” and let the winners run. Guys who make money fast and furiously generally lose it fast and furiously. I am interested in knowing if any of you that trade for MES live had made withdrawals from your trading accounts? and if there has been any issues with it.

IPhone
IPhone
4 years ago
Reply to  Metal Trader

I withdrew twice and it was a seamless process. I had a $10k draw-down.

raj
raj
3 years ago
Reply to  Metal Trader

I actually sat again in the test on behalf of my family member to check if they are real.
1. I traded all 18 days.
2. only one trading day was a loosing day of $100
3. Highest profit was $350
4. MES seemed to progress me to the final questionnaire stage after the completion of trial.
I had to fill up several answers to question. One of them was on AGE, experience, qualification and profession.

I filled up age 60 as I was trading on behalf of a family member.

But after that the next day they just wrote me –
they are sorry they cant fund me.

Really guys, dont waste time on MES, Go for TST. Spend some money to get money.

I traded twice, and both times I found that I can trade well. I am in TST now – no more MES for me

Good luck with you guys who gets funded from this secret agent.
NO CLEAR RULES – Is all i can say

Metal
Metal
3 years ago
Reply to  raj

Those are very good results, but I definitely would not of told them you are trading on behalf of a family member. You would need a POA to do that and they are gonna see that as a red flag.

cala
cala
4 years ago
Reply to  jnbadger

jnbadger- That is great fellow MES trader. I bet you will have nothing bad to say. I been telling people here how easy and comfortable it is working with MES, but as you know 99% of them are just negative. Even Emmett changed his mind once he knew the true. I wish you the best of success with MES.
@raj- You have to be really talented to get funded. these guys only want the best of the best. It’s free so they can fund whoever they want.

T.N.
T.N.
4 years ago
Reply to  jnbadger

jnbadger – It would be great if you and everyone else who passed the trial could come back and give us an update on your experience with MES Capital. Also it would be helpful to let people know a little bit more the result of your 20-day trial like how many losing/winning days, biggest losing/winning day, largest draw down from the starting amount, number of trades per day, length of trade, etc. so we have an idea how your were funded.

David Knight
4 years ago
Reply to  T.N.

Good point. Personally I don’t like the Rithmic pro software given for this … I have decided to go back into TST combine here.

T.N.
T.N.
4 years ago
Reply to  David Knight

David,

Did you started the trial? I just started the trial a week and a half ago. It took me a few days to get around the Rithmic platform. I’ve already exceeded the minimum target profit so it’s going well so far. I’m not crazy about the trading platform either but there are planned updates to the platform. You could also use other platform during the trial with the Rithmic data feed. Have you taken the TST combine previously?

David Knight
4 years ago
Reply to  T.N.

Yes. I will be on Day 3 at MES … but I don’t really care for Rithmic Pro. Cool about exceeding the target already! There were some nice trading days in CL as well last week.

Yes on TST. I have taken and passed the combine and been funded 3 separate times. My last time funded I lasted 14 days before I had to close the funded account and take a check for profits.

T.N.
T.N.
4 years ago
Reply to  David Knight

David,

Why did you close the account when you have profits? So you’re taking both MES trial and TST combine currently? I just posted on the this review about my current MES Trial. As I was typing out the post, I was logged out of my RTrader platform and now I’m having trouble logging in with my credentials. I hope they didn’t shut down my account. After 8 days of trading I’ve surpassed the minimum profit target and never hit my daily stop loss. I had some small losses the first few days just getting around the platform for the first time. I’ve emailed them and waiting for their reply. You can search for “T.N.” on this page to see my other posts.

David Knight
4 years ago
Reply to  T.N.

I wasn’t able to login today either at MES. You?

T. Nguyen
T. Nguyen
4 years ago
Reply to  David Knight

I couldn’t log until later in the day.

jnbadger
jnbadger
4 years ago
Reply to  T.N.

Hi again.

Well, I said I would give an update no matter what, so here goes.

What a disappointing experience. Raj, you are right when you say they don’t give specific parameters. Well, they do after you go live, but they don’t honor them.

After 2 weeks, I was given a warning via email, which said i wasn’t trading like i did during the simulation. Not true. 3 days later I was let go. They said they were aware I was trading multiple accounts. Also not true.

I was given a max drawdown of 1500. I was down around 350 at the time of the termination email. So their decision to let me go was totally subjective and had no basis on reality.

My only thinking is that they were able to review all of my profitable trades that they can use for their own gain. Nothing else makes sense.

I actually really like the Rithmic software. I’m in my 4th day at TST and I’m doing well with it. Up around 500 in the 50k combine.

In short, I am bitter as hell. I traded my ass off to pass the trial, only to be let go for no reason what so ever. I didn’t start making money in the live account right away, but I was taking it slow, and that was also the case in my trial. Hell, I made 1600 in the last 4 days of my trial to make it to my goal. That’s how trading goes. You take advantage of the short lived profit opportunities.

There is something wrong with this company, and i still can’t put my finger on it. I was a bit leery to begin with, and that feeling was warranted.

The one positive I got out of it was that I proved to myself that could do well under a deadline while only trading 2 contracts. I originally hated the idea of a deadline but then I ended up thriving on it and then really went for it. And now I’m with TST, and I’ve never been so relaxed while trading.

Questions are welcome.

T. Nguyen
T. Nguyen
4 years ago
Reply to  jnbadger

jnbadger,

Thanks for coming back and giving us an update. I doesn’t look like I will be getting funding with MES Capital anytime soon. The last few days, I find the Rithmic Pro trading software with MES Capital very glitchy. At one point I couldn’t even log in for nearly the whole day. Also charts and trade ladders showed one price but the “real” price was totally something else. I did not know what was going on. The moment I enter a trade I was already down quite significantly. I think at one point prices were off by more than 50 ticks. So imagine you enter a trade to buy 1 contract on CL and the moment you’re in, you’re down $500 because you’ve actually bought 50 ticks above the bid/ask price…YIKES!! 2 contracts and you would have hit your loss limit instantly. I couldn’t figure out what was happening until it was to late.

I understand TST also uses the Rithmic software. Does this same problem occur with Rithmic for TST?

I may go with TST if I can confirm this doesn’t also happen with TST.

Cyn
Cyn
4 years ago
Reply to  jnbadger

So it sounds like they are looking for fantasy traders who never have a drawdown. What else would you expect, when they will not even set any published success criteria?

That alone should clue us in that they themselves have no idea how trading should or often goes.

Volvic
Volvic
4 years ago
Reply to  jnbadger

Yes they will terminate you if you don’t show consistency between demo and live. It’s hard to shift to live, fu@ks you up big time.

AJ Trader
AJ Trader
4 years ago

MES is a sham. Emmett were you paid to say something different? Very suspicious. There is no person or phone number that works for MES Capital. There website is a joke with little information. No software download for Rithmic. Just a weird video sent about the Order Book . . . I received a Congratulations you are ready to start your trial for a funded account. Why would I bother when I can’t even talk with someone for a simple software license question. The VP of Operations a Julia Harrington’s email is a bounce. When you try to contact anyone you are just shifted to other companies . . vanark trading? Why does this business have such a lack of integrity? So far TST has been the best outfit to work with and looks like I will be going back there. There is nothing worst than having your time wasted when you are trying to make progress with your goal. I guess it is better to have this problem

Rob B
Rob B
4 years ago
Reply to  Emmett Moore

Let us know what you find. If the only somewhat legitimate source of funding for day traders is gone that tells you something. And no TS is not legit.

raj
raj
4 years ago
Reply to  Emmett Moore

check my post, as recent as today

kenneth
kenneth
4 years ago
Reply to  AJ Trader

I respectfully disagree it’s a sham. (I do not have any opinion about your specific experience, so it did not count towards my current bias)

Dennis
4 years ago

My experience with MES: In January I presented 5 consecutive positive days of sim trades. I was accepted for trial. I did well, at first, then had a losing streak and hit loss limit. I have not yet reapplied. I have received no follow up emails from MES to sell me anything. I have no complaints about MES, only disappointed with myself…

I also have experience with Topstep. Again, no complaints about the company, only with myself… I like the way the Combine trading results are displayed in your account on their site, following each trading day. (“Combine” is what Topstep calls a trial.) With Topstep, you can restart a Combine as often as you wish, but the costs add up.

Winning with either company requires that you learn a level of discipline that will make you a better trader, whether you are funded or not.

It is absolutely essential that you learn to never allow yourself to reach the draw-down limit, if you expect to be qualified to trade someone else’s money.

Don’t expect to win a Combine, if you are a complete beginner at trading. It is harder than it looks. First, you have to be a consistently profitable trader. Next, you have to adapt your trading system to their rules. You may be profitable by your rules, but that’s not good enough for them. You have to do it by their rules.

If you really want to win at trading, keep trying. Most funded traders did not get funded on their first try.

Mark
Mark
4 years ago

I am suprised to see MES LLC located in the Virgin Islands. Does this concern anyone? Have any implication for traders in US?

Jack
Jack
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

You still have to pay taxes!

ZakO
ZakO
4 years ago

i negotiated my DD with them and they gave me 3k. Not bad for 2 lots. Profit sharing in return I asked for 30% and 50% > 20% they agreed. No issues so far. I asked them if I can disclose the profit split they didn’t mind.

Yie
Yie
4 years ago
Reply to  ZakO

Hi Zako, I wish to contact you, as I have some specific questions. Since there is no PM feature here, could you please contact me at yiehom at hotmail dot com. Thanks a lot in advance

vk79
vk79
4 years ago

I thought finally I found somebody who honestly would like to help traders. But I found your updated review of TST review and affiliation very disappointing.
You have proven “once a crook always a crook” true.
Most probably you are getting paid more from MES that made you switch.

Your updated TST review:
“On July 31, 2015 I published a gushing, candy coated review of TopStep Trader. You can read the original review here. Part of my motivation was monetary. TopStep Trader has an affiliate program that pay’s companies and individuals a commission of sales that are referred to them through a third party webpage. From July 31, 2015 to Jan 1st, 2016 I was paid a grand total of $2,150 in affiliate commissions. In addition to the affiliate commissions, I was also sent two frozen pizza’s from TopStep Trader, as a thank you gift.”

raj
raj
4 years ago
Reply to  vk79

MES dont fund anymore. I completed 15 out of min 18 days and completed their profit target too. My account was opened late by 6 days, so I didnt get 20 working days, but still i achieved their profit target.

But they said that I failed as i didnt trade 18 days minimum. It was not my fault that my account was not ready for 6 days.

I think they are fraud or maybe recently not funding

T.N.
T.N.
4 years ago
Reply to  raj

raj – I’m not sure what happened for you but I was away from home when I got the email about qualifying for the trial. Trial accounts are created on Sundays, Mondays, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays. I’m not sure why you said “my account was not ready for 6 days” because once your account is created should be ready.

Personally I was concerned about not being able to trade the minimum amount of days because I was away and wasn’t properly equipped to trade so I emailed MES Capital. I guess my email was forwarded to Vankar Trading who I supposed is MES Capital’s broker/risk manager, the one managing and approving the trials. I was told that the trial actually starts once you sign in with credentials that they provide you.

I’m pretty sure once you have your login that means your trial account is ready. The login expires 29 days from the day the account is created. I’m my trial now but I’m not sure I will meet the minimum number of trading days because I was away from home when the account was created. I did not get back home to my computer three days later. Then a week after that I loss electricity for 4 days and experienced an historic flood (they called it the 1000 year flood) in Louisiana and had to evacuate my home. I wasn’t sure I have a home to get back to much less a computer to trade. I had to wade through chest-high flood water a few days later to get back to my home but surprisingly my home had very little damage from the flood. I was one of the few fortunate ones.

I’ve only traded 8 days but I’ve already surpassed the minimum target profit. If I did not meet the minimum trading days I hope MES Capital will make an exception or extend my trial account due to my unfortunate and untimely circumstance. I can’t think of waiting another year for a trial.

Also when I submitted for my trial, I sent in trading statistics for 5 trading days from a Ninjatrader demo account using the same parameters as MES Capital trial account parameters. I had a little over $3,957 net profits for those 5 trading days and received the email that I was approved for the trial about 7 hours later.

Wow, as I’m typing this, I’m having trouble logging into the RTrader Pro platform with the my trial credentials. Copy and pasting my login from the email doesn’t work either…oh, oh…

Gerald A.
Gerald A.
4 years ago
Reply to  T.N.

Vankar is currently under investigation with the NFA and the CFTC

day trader
day trader
4 years ago
Reply to  T.N.

i just finished my trial with 2000$ target hope i get funded.. i will update my statue if i get funded..

day trader
day trader
4 years ago
Reply to  day trader

hello traders , i get funded with 15k$ .. and now i trading live.

Gary
Gary
3 years ago
Reply to  day trader

day trader, congrats! what maximum loss limit did they provide?

day trader
day trader
3 years ago
Reply to  Gary

loss limit is 1500$ only and i lost them.

Cyn
Cyn
3 years ago
Reply to  day trader

$1500 in a day?
$1500 drawdown at any stage?
$1500 of initial funded amount?

Which?

Jonh
Jonh
3 years ago
Reply to  Cyn

Here is hidden rules:

After you pass the trial you’ll get funded $1,500 only (not $15,000 to $50,000). As soon as your account reach 3k they will block 1.5k. It’s mean you never lose your account under 1.5k initial deposit.

And if you have the talent YOU can increase your account up to $1,000,000. But if any given time the account loss back to 1.5k, GAME OVER!

Minimum lot size: 1 lot/contract
Pip value: EU, CAD, CHF, JPY… $12.5/pip

GL

Jeff
Jeff
3 years ago
Reply to  Jonh

If the funding is only $1500 then does it mean no ES or SPY?

Dev
Dev
4 years ago

The recurring idea that these funding houses have a bad business model is starting to chafe me tender bits. It would be dead easy to hedge the risks of taking on a new trader who has at least shown some basic level of skill with a month of acceptable risk/reward trade management. Just trade against them for a couple months, mirror every move they make. Profit/loss would be essentially flatlined until you have some confidence in the trader and then you step back. There are any number of variations on this theme that would work to limit the risk in the short term. As for sustainability – obviously if you have a rock star trader in the stable, you do not keep them at a 50/50 cut and hope they don’t figure out they could do better on their own! *facepalm* You increase their funding and/or offer a better cut. It is naive to think that the cookie cutter terms for newbies would still be applied to the rainmakers. I am beginning to think that a lot of the anger expressed regarding MES comes from the fact that their offer forces wannabe traders to admit (if only to themselves) that they really don’t have the chops to make it as pros. They want to keep rolling the dice with their underfunded and shrinking accounts and pretend they don’t suck, and call MES a scam or whatever so they can feel better about not being good enough to make the cut. Full disclosure – I am not an MES trader. Yet.

Stray Dog
Stray Dog
4 years ago
Reply to  Dev

I don’t think that it would be “dead easy” to hedge risk to the point that you come out even until you identify your rockstar, rainmaker traders. MES would have to access to each trade the new trader makes as they make it and then have someone or some mechanism in place to trade against that position. Possible but not dead easy. As for keeping the rockstar, rainmaker trader, yes you could adjust your profit split and you could increase the amount of funding they receive which would work up to a point but eventually they would have enough of their own capital to trade independently. I can see however, that there would be an appeal to having an attractive profit split and essentially trading risk free with someone elses cash. Do you know if this is happening with any traders? I still think that it is a brave business model and not one that many would be willing to embrace.

Rob B
Rob B
4 years ago
Reply to  Dev

My guess is if you tried to hedge a micro scalper and they lost you would end up with 2 losses; their trade and your hedge. I think Stray Dog brought up an interesting point. If you found one or more rock star traders; what would it take for them to stay. I know the draw downs allowed in TS, you might as well go it yourself. I would think they would have to allow the trader large draw downs otherwise why stay and split your money and be kicked out on a small draw down. And if you are such a rock star trader such that you never have any draw downs why would you need to stay. If you look at mutual funds and hedge funds these guys can lose money for years.

Stray Dog
Stray Dog
4 years ago
Reply to  Rob B

There is also the mathematics of the split. No matter what the split is MES is going to want their part of that split to represent a return on investment that makes it worthwhile for them. So MES gives the rock star trader $1,000,000 to trade and a very generous split of 70 for rock star and 30 for MES. That 30% has to equal a return on the whole 1,000,000 that MES can live with. Say they want a 10% return on their 1million. Their 30% share of the profits has to = 100,000. That means that rock star has to make $333,333 total profit or 33% on the 1 million MES has staked him to trade. Hopefully I’ve got my math right, but the underlying point is that the more generous MES makes the split the harder it is for the rock star to generate a return that is worth MES’s time. I can’t see the split moving much beyond 50/50 for the reason outlined above and also because they have to get a return that is higher overall to make up for all of the traders who aren’t rock stars.

Rob B
Rob B
4 years ago
Reply to  Stray Dog

Plus would the rock star day trader trading a small account, be able to successfully trader a large account. At some point you become the market. It is one thing to micro scalp a small account, but try that with a large account. My guess is they are still struggling to figure it out. All I know is if I had Saudi oil money, I would be buying hotels, shopping centers, apartment complexes and other profitable business, and not be funding day traders, but that is me (please no hate mail).

Stray Dog
Stray Dog
4 years ago
Reply to  Rob B

Yes, me too. Property builds wealth and replaces your income over time and the best part is someone else buys most of that asset for you through the rent they pay but it takes time. Trading can give you a better return than letting some pension fund get their hands on your cash and could replace your income but wealth will most likely come from investing rather than trading.

Dev
Dev
4 years ago
Reply to  Stray Dog

@Rob and Dog, those are all valid points. Some trading styles would probably not work but that is why there is a vetting process. I agree that ultimately the limiting factor for a funding house like MES is that they need a slice big enough to justify their risks. So they either become a revolving door for traders, which could work just fine, or they cut new deals as needed. I doubt that a paltry million $ (as advertised) is the real upper limit for successful traders, in which case a trader’s capital could be renegotiated many times before the numbers finally favor striking out on their own. If MES gets their numbers right they will eventually be a hedge fund with an innovative talent scouting department. Hedge funds do crater, but nobody doubts the viability of the business model.

Rob B
Rob B
4 years ago
Reply to  Dev

Hedge funds are brilliant business model. First trading other people’s money. You get 2% to just to manage plus 20% of any profits. And what is less knows is if they lose money they just close down and start a new hedge fund so they can get their 20% on gains. And the worst part is for all that most cannot even beat the S&P. Why people invest in them is mind blogging to me. It is like the more you charge the more you convince people you have some type of advantage.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/23/the-surprising-hedge-fund-strategy-thats-beating-the-market.html

Karol
Karol
4 years ago

Hey guys, I’m futures newbie.

What do you trade during evaluation period?

How can I trade 1 lot of CL, if it’s worth more than $15,000?
-is that even possible?

I’m really confused. Thank you for your help and sorry for stupid questions.

Yie
Yie
4 years ago
Reply to  Karol

Info on their site, Again, it is all FREE

Karol
Karol
4 years ago
Reply to  Yie

I could not find answer to my question. Would you be so kind and answer me directly please?

Yie
Yie
4 years ago
Reply to  Karol

Do this Karol : on their website, scroll all the way down to questions & anwers and pick the question you seek answer for.
You will be trading CME futures and options products, during day time. So, not sure about CL, from Nymex.

Best

Karol
Karol
4 years ago
Reply to  Yie

Thank you, however how am I supposed to trade something with its value bigger than 15K per 1 lot?

Osikani
Osikani
4 years ago
Reply to  Karol

That is the whole point of trading on margin. You are going to have to use your Google Fu to find some information on the mechanics of trading futures. It is not possible for anyone to explain that to you completely using posts in a forum discussion.

Osikani
Osikani
4 years ago
Reply to  Karol
Yie
Yie
4 years ago
Reply to  Karol

Again, you pay nothing for the trial.
Depending on the broker, you can trade 1 lot intraday for 1.000 intraday margin, and even less. With Mes K you can trade up to 4 contracts at any time. Crude and currencies futures included. You have to take the initial 15.000 to 17.000+ in 20 trading days. Taking it to 13.500 disqualifies.

Dev
Dev
4 years ago

Thank you Emmett for going where the evidence has led you regarding MES. To change your mind and say so publicly is the mark of a true gentleman. Disregard the naysayers and critics, it is sadly common these days for people to fail to recognize an act of integrity. No good deed goes unpunished.

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