Vantage Point Trading Software
Vantage Point Trading Software, a product that company salespersons claim is 86% accurate at predicting prices 1-3 days into the future. High-pressure sales presentation that recommends retail investors put the $4,900 cost of the software onto a credit card. Company salesperson stated as fact, “most people recoup the cost of the software within 60-90 days after purchase, from trading profits.” (telephonic recording)
Company salesperson claims that a “single mom with little to no trading experience earned $100k on her very first trade.” No evidence of claim could be provided. (telephonic recording)
TradingSchools.Org caught the company using a paid ‘shill’ that represented himself as a full-time professional trader using the software profitably, daily. It turns out that the paid ‘shill’ is actually an employee of the company.
Use of high-pressure, boiler room like sales techniques tailored to the financially naive. In my opinion.
Owner of the company, has no verifiable track record of successful trading, spanning over 40 years. We asked for verification, Vantage Point refused.
Thanks for reading today’s review of Vantage Point Software
What is Vantage Point Software? The company is offering a trading software program that claims to incorporate Intermarket analysis and artificial intelligence to predict where markets will be at some point in the future. The company claims that they are the “World Leader in Market Forecasting.” Nearly every single tradeable market is covered with the trading software. This includes stocks, futures, Etf’s, bonds and commodities.
The company proclaims that their trading software is 86% accurate at predicting the future direction of just about every tradable financial market. And that this accuracy is ‘proven’ to be accurate 1-3 days into the future. What exactly does ‘proven’ mean? Apparently, the company gave the software to several PhD’s, and various financial publications and they all proclaim the greatness of the software. Several of these financial publications include advertising partners: Traders World magazine, Stocks and Commodities magazine, Futures magazine, and various other smaller promotional magazines.
It is important to note that these magazines are all promotional magazines. If you have been around the trading scene for any amount of time, then you know that all of these magazines write only positive reviews of trading products. They are in the business of selling the dream, and each new month includes yet another positive write up about yet another amazing trading software product.
In fact, I challenge anyone to find an article, from any of these trading magazines that gives a negative review of any trading software.
About Vantage Point Software and TraderTech.com
The software can be found and purchased at TraderTech.com. A review of Archive.Org reveals that TraderTech.com has had an active website since about 2002.
Prior to 2002, the company was a very active advertiser with Futures magazine, Traders Magazine, Stocks and Commodities, and various smaller trading promotional publications. In fact, a review of archived and non-web published Futures magazine and Traders magazine reveals that the company has actually been selling the software since the early 1980’s.
What I find amazing is that Vantage Point software has been around since the 1970’s. Over 40 years selling software out of Tampa Bay, Florida. Quite a promotional achievement! Isn’t it funny how much trading software seems to spring out of Florida?
Louis B. Mendelsohn
The owner of the company is a person named Louis Mendelsohn. Personal computers came onto the scene in full force during the 1980’s, and it seems that Louis Mendelsohn was one of the first to jump on the gravy train of selling trading indicators and software to the general public.
Louis Mendelsohn describes himself as coming from humble beginnings. His personal narrative includes “growing up in a public housing project and tenements in Providence, Rhode Island in the 1950’s.” Somehow he pulled himself up by his bootstraps and escaped this blighted ghetto and attended Carnegie Mellon and eventually received his MBA from Boston University. Both excellent schools.
During the 1970’s, as a hobby, he began trading stocks and commodity futures. At that time, traders were still using a pencil and pieces of paper to draw charts from prices published in local newspapers. In 1977, while working as a hospital administrator, he realized that pencils and pieces of paper could not compare with the charting ability of personal computers. In 1979, he founded his trading software business and it was released as a program named ProfitTaker.
After the financial crash of October 1987, Mr. Mendelsohn released a new trading software product that took into account Intermarket analysis. He considers himself a pioneer in the field and developed the software because he apparently could see “hidden patterns” and his software was now updated designed to uncover these “hidden patterns.”
According to the NFA, National Futures Association, Mr. Mendelsohn was registered in various capacities including a branch manager of a futures company for a year (1989), and a commodity trading advisor for a couple of years (1988-1989). There is no negative information or reparations associated with Louis Mendelsohn. It appears that Mr. Mendelsohn withdrew from NFA membership in the year 2000.
There is no published track record of Louis Mendelsohn’s performance as a CTA (Commodity Trading Advisor). And there is no mention of Louis Mendelsohn’s individual trading history. A very long and wide history of “breakthrough software” but no individual performance summaries. The big question…has Louis Mendelsohn ever made any consistent money by taking his own advice? Has he ever been able to convert these supposed secret patterns and amazing trading software into actual trading profits? TradingSchools.Org attempted to answer this question by contacting Vantage Point Software directly. Unfortunately, the company was unwilling or unable to comment on the supposed trading performance of Louis Mendelsohn.
However, our interaction with company representatives of Vantage Point Trading software was quite revealing.
Vantage Point Trading Software: a well-oiled sales machine.
During the month of February 2017, using an alias, TradingSchools.Org requested a free demonstration of the trading software. Included in the free demo request are 3 pieces of information that a user must submit to receive the free demo: Name, Phone Number, and Email.
Once this information is submitted to the company, this sets off a chain reaction of sales related activity. The first thing we noticed is that a wave of phone calls began to immediately arrive. But here is the funny thing, the area codes for these incoming phone calls were not from a toll-free number, or from the company headquarter located in the Tampa Bay area. Instead, the phone calls begin to arrive from a local area code. We did not answer and instead let the calls drop into voice mail, where a message was left from a salesperson located in Tampa Bay, Florida.
A day later, and yet a different local area code, from yet another salesperson located in Tampa Bay, Florida. What does this mean? Why is this important? What is happening is a clever marketing gimmick. The company realizes that individuals are less likely to answer toll free numbers, or number located in different states. Most people dont like sales calls. And so, the company is injecting localized area code prefixes into the caller ID of the outgoing phone calls. People are much more likely to answer a phone call if the phone call comes from a local prefix, it could be an emergency call from a spouse, child, or work.
I find this really clever and eventually answered the incoming phone call.
Vantage Point Software: a boiler room situation?
After you pick up the phone call from Vantage Point Software, you will be greeted by a chipper young salesperson. The very first words mentioned to us were, “Hi, this is Kevin Garniak from Vantage Point trading software, and this call is being recorded.” I thought this cute and agreed. Little did he know, I was also recording the phone call. I record every single phone call.
The very first thing I noticed was the cacophony of voices in the background. I felt like the conversation was trapped inside of call center located in Bangladesh. I asked Kevin where he was calling from, he said Tampa Bay, Florida. Next, he started aggressively gunning into his rehearsed sales pitch. And what a sales pitch!
The first statement that he makes is that Vantage Point trading software is 86% accurate at predicting future price direction, for the next 1-3 days. That the software has been proven to work since the 1980’s. I kept my mouth shut and let him continue to spew his sales pitch.
Next, he explains that the software has been 3rd party verified and authenticated from various reputable sources (Traders Magazine, Stocks and Commodities, etc).
He then tells me that the price of the software ranges from $2,900 to $12,900 and that most people purchase the $4,900 trading package. Incredibly, he then recommends that I purchase the $4,900 trading software with my credit card. He next say’s, “Within 30-60 days, most people recoup all of their costs from trading profits.” I was flabbergasted at this statement, and the crazy part is that he consented to have the entire conversation recorded. This is the type of stuff that sends the CFTC into full action mode.
He didn’t stop there. Kevin then launches into ‘full promo mode’ and states that one of his customers, “A single mom with little to no financial experience made $100,000 on her very first trade!” I am just sitting in my chair, quietly laughing as entangles himself deeper into the regulatory web.
The sales presentation rambled on for over 40 minutes. It included screen sharing of the software where he gave picture perfect, hindsight trades where customers were supposedly making massive profits. Every so often, in the background of his sales presentation, I could hear loud cheering and clapping. I asked Kevin what that cheering and clapping meant, he explained that someone just sold a trading software package and the entire salesroom was congratulating the salesperson.
A short time later, I hear what can only be described as a cowbell wildly banging in the background. Yet again I asked Kevin what that wild sound was, he enthusiastically described that yet another salesperson has sold some sort of mega software package. I thought to myself, this must the $12,900 package, I really wanted to trigger that cowbell.
Of course, I had no intention of purchasing anything. Instead, I just wanted to string poor Kevin along and let him drop more regulatory turds in his underwear. Next, I asked Kevin if he could refer me to an actual trader that was using the software and was making profits. He said, “No problem, I can let you talk to a full-time trader, using our software and making profits”. He next gave me the telephone number of a person named Matt Golden with a 407 area code. I checked the area code…another phone number from Tampa Bay, Florida. I told Kevin that I was going to purchase the software package, but I just needed to talk with a real trader making profits. I hang up.
Vantage Point Software and the professional shill.
After hanging up the phone with Kevin Garniak, I next picked up the phone and called the front desk operator at Vantage Point Software. I asked if there was an employee named Matt Golden. The front desk operator confirmed that Matt Golden was an employee.
Next, I called the cell phone of Matt Golden. Wow, was Matt Golden more than enthusiastic about Vantage Point trading software. He explained that he is now a full time professional trader and that the software is “amazing, and it works, it changed his life, I just bought a new house with my profits.” All the while, I am sitting in my chair wondering…how many other people are falling for this ‘song and dance, bait and switch sales presentation’. Was Matt Golden the guy in background ringing the cowbell?
Reviews of Vantage Point Software
Of course, all of this is highly unethical and some might say is downright fraudulent. I won’t give my own personal opinion. Instead, I would like to offer some choice quotes from purchasers of the trading software. These quotes were pulled from the pages of Forex Peace Army. Its important to note that Forex Peace Army does have some positive reviews regarding Vantage Point software, but they appear to be shill responses from the virtual swamp of negative reviews. Lets take a look at what a few individuals have written about this trading software:
Very clever marketing & misuse of statistics have resulted in a product that looks and sounds wonderful with great endorsements, however it offers absolutely no edge in the market at all. I spent manny thousands of dollars & it was a total waste. I would even go so far as to call it a scam. Stay away !!
Vantage Point is over priced garbage. It cost me around $5000. Within 4 months my entire trading account was wiped out. I trusted this system to deliver and it didn’t. The accuracy was more like 20%.
Vantage Point in my opinion is overpriced and probably a borderline ripoff.
I have been attempting to find some value to using the VP software but I’ve totally failed to find any added value at all to using the so-called predictive indicators. Completely my fault that I paid $5k for the useless software.
Hello everyone thinking of purchasing vantagepoint software. I spent the money for the entire futures package and I am embarrassed to say how much it was because I was taken for a ride.
Ok, let me be honest. If you buy this, or any, software which claims it can accurately predict tomorrow’s range or tomorrow’s anything, THINK about it instead of dreaming about mansions and Ferrari’s. I saw those nice high numbers on their website about accuracy etc and thought “hey I can’t lose”. The bottom line is this: VP is one of many scams out there run by people who have no heart or soul and can sleep at night after robbing hard working people.
As you can read, these are some pretty nasty user comments. And there are many, many more.
Some readers might be tempted by the 14-day refund policy. But before you allow your money to be transferred out of your account, you should also read the page upon page of negative comments from people that were not able to receive their refunds, either outright or through clever linguistics contained within the sales contract. Vantage Point software is not in the business of happily handing out refunds.
What about those positive review websites?
It appears that a lot of people get drawn into Vantage Point trading software because they read a positive review from a third party website, that spoke highly of the product. But what you need to realize is that Vantage Point offers a very handsome affiliate program that pays generous commissions to whoever is referring traffic. A quick google search reveals many of the usual suspects.
As much as TradingSchools.Org loves to promote trading products, we wouldn’t touch this company. I cannot imagine my readers being subjected to that ridiculous boiler room of piranhas trying to weasel $4,900 from readers. As many of my readers already know, I am former boiler room guy that trained hundreds of salespeople how to rip off people from shady investment products. The sales operation of Vantage Point reminds me of everything that I despise about my old life. Just fucking lying to people for a quick buck and having no remorse for the financial devastation and pain that is inflicted upon others.
Wrapping things up
Thank you for taking the time to read this review. It was a bit of a long review, and I know that most of you are too busy for a 2500 word diatribe. But this company is obviously running a large operation and I wanted to make sure that potential purchasers of the product have the complete and honest story of how this company operates. As usual, its my opinion.
Your opinion is more important. And I would love if you would make a comment, or if you have purchased the trading software from this company, would love to read your story.
Check out WiseTraders.com – A very professional operation
I guess my question would be…If the software works so well why do they need salespeople? The salesperson would see it works so well and invest in the software. They in turn would be making lots of money and wouldn’t be working for VPS. Makes you wonder!
Lane and his pup have been selling this snake oil for two generations.
Got talked into buying this last week, got billed for $5387.00, can’t even download the software, started reading the reviews on this just about all a negative. Going to demand my $$ back, If I get no response from this bunch, their offices, if they exist, are not far from me, am going down their and confront them in person
Sorry to read that you had a bad experience. Vantage Point seems to treat their customers fairly, so I would be surprised if you have any problems. You definitely do NOT want to march into their offices with “crazy eyes.” That wont help anything.
You have a few remedies through your credit card company. If you get any resistance, then please reach out to my wife Susanne (she is a lawyer), and can probably get something happening (pro bono). You can reach me directly at firstname.lastname@example.org if you need some extra pressure. $5k is a lot of money.
I saw this organization’s ad on Yahoo Finance again this morning, and after ignoring the prior ones, I decided to check it out. The first tip that it was a scam: no pricing on the website, just a come-on. Google offered the link to your review.
Wow, what a surprise it was not that they aren’t able to predict trading signals three days in advance.
Loved your review! The description of an active boiler room is so reminiscent of that movie.
Of course, the simplest of logic would bring one to the same conclusion: suppose their claim was correct. Then, everybody with $4900 would be using their software, which would …
Completely change the trading signals, of course. The software would have to go back three days from the three days back. And then, when traders used the new three-farther-days-back signals, it would have to go back three more days, and like the lady said, “You can’t fool me — It’s turtles all the way down.”
This is definitely a “turtles all the way down” system.
Haha, I’m listening to a webinar on Advantage right now and your EXACTLY RIGHT..word for word. Total B.S. Thanks for aGreat articule on this SCAM…
I would like to say thanks for this review. I must have had the same Guy you spoke with. He spoke to me on Linkedin and ask if I thought about investing money in the company he worked for. I gave him my personal e-mail. That was a huge mistake. When I didn’t respond fast enough for him, he became very rude and insulting me. I called him out on it and then he said” I beg you for forgiveness. I will never be disrespectful again.” Well that was a lie because it did not stop. I finally told him I would not do business with him and to stop e-mailing me.
That is when I Googled the Company and read your review and I’ m so glad that I did.
Thanks for your review.
i use td ameritrade and need to know how to find ideas on sector rotation and swing trades not day trades when to get in and when to get out help!
Could you help me find a good trading software and personal coach ?
Trade Navigator is a great platform that I personally enjoy using.
And as far as a coach? Well, I don’t recommend that you take the coach route. And I recommend that you completely avoid all forms of day trading.
The best route? Focus on buying high-quality stocks that pay a dividend. Stocks that pay a dividend are much less likely to have shady accounting practices. Start building and holding high quality stocks. Never sell them. Ever.
Thank you for saving me a lot of money!
Vantage Point Software is also a trademark rip off from a website Vantage Point Trading, formerly run by Cory Mitchell – a respectable trader. I hate that they come up in the search for his articles.
Thank you for exposing these scams.You are saving at least some of us, who are doing due diligence on these pseudo gurus…
Thank you so much for this detailed information regarding vantage point. You saved me a bundle. Figured it was a scam.
I purchased Vantage in 2018 and initially I won 8 out of 10 options trades that were all Calls. I just used the 5 VP indicators and I puchased RSI as an add on. Iven wrote an honest objective review. After These first 10 trades. My success rate was 1 out of 10 trades for the next 16 months and I lost about 100k. So in late 2019 I gave up on the software and started trading on my own and investment services. During the covid lock down I ran across videos on youtube of people doing well with the software and for some reason decided to dig into it to see if I was doing anything wrong. I reached out to Vantage and can say the customer service is very good and seems to care, but as a trader/investor the bottom line of my account is the bottom line. From researching and watching all sorts of videos, my conclusion for my lack of success is that I needed more indicators. So I bought Larry Williams EMAI and PSI indicators based on reviews and results about Larry Williams outside of Vantage. I am now reading that there is an MCAD, TSI and stochastics (please forgive spelling) that traders use which is more $$. I don’t have the budget to buy anything else. I am trading on paper now starting from Late February 2021. My objective conclusion is that Vantage alone I know does not work. My bankroll is my proof for that. But I do think Vantage in combination with proven indicators should work in that those indicators are used by professional traders. Vantage has to know that the software by itself is not enough. The indicators needed to win at over a 50% rate should be included, but their money is made by purchasing add-ons. I see from the reviews that many people have lost using Vantage and one or two have stated some success. The item they are not stating is the many additional indicators they had to purchase.
Just wow. Reading this makes my stomach hurt.
Ok, I am going to publish a free course on strategy development so you can create your own gameplan. I stopped listening to gurus years and years ago.
The real key to success is to first ditch day trading. Secondly, you have to learn to program strategies. The platform I use is super simple. I just need to get readers to start trusting themselves and stop trusting the shady hucksters with ‘magical’ software. After you start developing strategies, you will never look back.
Have been meaning to do this for years. Its time.
On futures.io (https://futures.io/trading-reviews-vendors/9643-vantagepoint-predicting-market.html#post669778) , this guy posted –> “I was one of the suckers that bought the software. After buying the software, it was impossible for anyone at Vantage Point to give you the details of what 80% was based on. Their AI predictive indicator was the most common response as to what they were referring to.
Since I like developing Ninja and Tradestation trading strategies, I went on a quest to understand their predictive indicator. I found out that it uses a 14 day ATR and takes 42% of a the ATR and adds/subtracts from the prior day’s close to come up with it’s predictive range. (Wow, I’m impressed at the amount of work they did on that AI. – sarcasm)
Please read the following review if you are even slightly considering buying the software
I would also comment that these old-timer legacy trading softwares are usually composed of simple ideas that could be a simple variation of an indicator coded on ninjatrader or any modern platform today. i.e. like when stochastics, or fib tools were considered “advanced tools” in the 80’s and 90’s for example. I think Emmett is correct in that VP’s software is buffered by their immense shamshow sales & marketing dept. to preserve its perceived “value” over the years fooling newb dupes, far beyond its outdated obsolescence.
Hi. Thank you , for your information i hare frauds and lost a lot of money to criminals . In a court room you are innocent till proven guilty. On the internet is the opposite. Keep up the good work .
Thank you. I am a new trader and felt this was too good to be true. I have been trying to use trade ideas but it is very complicated AI software for someone new to trading. So far no calls but I only saw the webinar today. I am doing best with long term investing. Thanks Matt for the tip on the 3 day vs 8 day MA. I will check it out
Phew many thanks again for saving me lots of money, really appreciate it. Keep the good work going.
It’s been somewhat helpful reading the comments on AP. While we are on AI subject anyone try TC2000? Appreciate, the feedback.
Hi, I read your review and want to thank you for providing it. I had spent 2 hours with a rep from vantage this afternoon (7/23/20) and was doing my due diligence. You sure made it easy for me. Thanks again. Since I left my e-mail, perhaps you could steer me in a better direction?
I am so fortunate to have read this review… I had an interview arranged for this week, and have cancelled that interview!
Thank you for that review. I read the whole thing and found it very helpful because when I looked at the software demo, That they use in the webinars they give to demonstrate the package I thought “I can do that, to help me through these times starting small.” And seeing your review all the way through really was helpful to make it clear not to go there.
So thank you again. What made you change from not caring to how what you did affected people? I thought it was courageous that you were willing to share that.
Thanks so much for sharing the info and your review to save our hard earned money!
Thank you for saving my money. God bless you !!!
Hello, I’m watching a video with a sales person from Vantage Point software with one of a few trading companies you have recommenced, Follow me trades. How can this be? What are your thoughts on this partnership? To check out what I’m looking at go to: https://followmetrades.com/vantage-ltr-recordings/?inf_contact_key=5c4e0db00e67751b55a7852b34a655e116358d5485884e2f31e6019a0d26c8b0
That was a great review! It made me put away my Ferrari dreams and keep my hard earned cash in my pocket. Thanks!
Oh no! Don’t ever lose your Ferrari dreams!
Thanks for very useful information
I bought the lifetime package that includes everything except Canada, Forex, and Crypto. I then added on the resistance/support package. This package came from an -mail ad and I made that purchase without the aid of a salesman. For me, it is worth the investment for the IntelliScan feature alone. In seconds, it screens EFTs and most of the US stock market for potential trades. I say most, because it doesn’t have some stocks I’m finding from other sources. I use that IntelliScan screen to review potential trades for the day. Within about 15 seconds per stock, I can decide if I want to add it to buy it or add it to my watch list for the day. I don’t have time to calculate the results of my trades from VantagePoint and post it here. I do know the software has given me ideas for trades, that I wouldn’t have found without it, that have made me a lot of money. I use stop losses of 3% to limit the downside but that’s just my preference, not their training. Even so, the software will show me the beginning of a potential downtrend before it can cost me, thus the use of stop loss. I also use the software’s feature of predicting the highs and lows for the upcoming day. For you skeptics, those predictions stay in the history of the daily results, so you can see yesterdays predictions vs. the actual highs and lows. The software is wrong quite often, not by much, but it’s usually because it didn’t predict a breakout from a trend. I have evaluated other investment screener options from other websites and many of them require a monthly subscription cost that will eventually dwarf my investment in the lifetime package of VantagePoint. I am not an employee of the company. I’m just a CPA who is trying to find a way to use trading profits as a way to replace my current income so I can retire.
This is very interesting Jim as you are the only one who seems to have actually used the software. I am serious about that. Could you share some more of your experiences? Are you currently still using the software, etc.?
I use it every morning. It’s not always accurate because no one and no software can predict what happened in the market yesterday. I also need to follow it more closely. It told me to get out of Apple, Microsoft, Tesla, etc, but I stayed in until I hit my stop-loss orders yesterday. You also need to fully understand what the charts in the software is telling you about a stock before buying it. It may say a stock is a buy, but my experience tells me it’s just a mild buy or I’ll take a pass. So out of 30 stocks the software says is a buy for today, I’ll actually buy three stocks. After my orders are filled, I put a trailing stop loss at 3% of the last price. That protects me from an unexpected reversal the software didn’t predict. Another thing the software does is to predict sector shifts. For days it’s been telling me gold and energy stocks were the way to go, but I was fully invested in tech stocks. Tech sucks at the moment and the gold and energy stocks are doing well. I believe the software works, but you need to spend time with it and learn how to use it properly.
What you said makes no sense to be at all. Anyone can see on most platforms vti, qqq, spy, iwm, and the other sectors and can see the yearly monthly weekly and daily trend – why spend 4900 for something that if you just looked at your selected lists each night you could see for free. Particularly since you say vantage can’t see the breakout before it happens. NO ONE CAN because no one knows the minds of the thousands of traders each day. So most people just realize that you can buy during the consolidation a little each day and wait for the break out or don’t buy at all until you see the breakout.
They imply and push that it is 86pct accurate. I have the software and agree it can give say 30 trades that intelliscan finds. But these 30 trades will show a high amount of inaccuracy the next day. I would want it to be 86% accurate the next day since that is what is advertised. For me its closer to 34% accuracy for the next day, but to use for options DTE 30-60 days the accuracy is about 10%.
I listened to the full hour webinar and was sold, hook, line and sinker! I got the phone call and gave my credit card details. Wow! Pressure sales for add-ons! I asked how much was the renewal after 1 year… she had NO IDEA! Alarm bells, no-one renews!? While on hold, I searched for reviews and found yours. She came back on the line and offered me 3 more sectors for $1500 but I replied, “Please just cancel my order and cancel the credit card transaction” She reluctantly agreed to do so but I can’t trust her word so I contacted my card issuer and told them what happened. A ‘dispute’ was started. Results in 6-8 weeks. If the result is in my favour I will consider that a VERY LUCKY ESCAPE and I would like to thank you for posting your review to help the rest of us.
Thank you for your detailed review!
Wow! Excellent analysis! They were trying to get my bro in law to pay $99.97 to get a taste of their info. But I see the trap that would be coming. God bless you for turning your life around. You have blessed me and my family with your honesty. Great detective work.
Thanks for the good information.
Thank you so much, in so glad I did a little research first. You saved me big time!
Thank you Brother
I certainly agree. Only wish I had seen this before I blew my money on VPS. You go through and do all your scans daily and come up with 10 to 40 candidates based on group strength or weakness. Of the five trainers I had at VPS, none could tell me how to boil this group down to one or two or more 80% winners in the next three days. It was as if they did not understand the question. Probably not on their script. I tried for a refund after 3 weeks, no dice. Several rumors that extremely difficult to get a refunds.
I made the VPS mistake. Most firms in the trading industry seem to try to be above board and responsive. VPS is responsive, but not so above board. I tried to cancel in 3 weeks, but no dice. From others I have heard it does not matter. No refunds. First trainer was so bad I gave her the benefit of the doubt and stayed a little longer before I decided to bale. But they would not cancel or refund. Over a year they shuffled me around between 5 trainers and one member. Consensus was I understood the product and how to use it. Based primarily on sectors and strongest stock in a sector. I would run my scans and come up with a list of prospects both long and short. Prospects ranged from 10 to 40 candidates. Of those, 2 or 3 may do well in the next day or two, however no one could tell me how to figure out which of the prospects were going to be the ones that moved. They were generally clueless about actually selecting a stock that was going to move. How can you have over 80% accuracy when you can’t pick them? My accuracy was more like 10% to occasionally 20%. The customer success person (gatekeeper) tried to be accommodating and offered me a peak at other services available at times I was not able to use. They hooked m up with a trader who uses the product and offers training. He actually said they use the product incorrectly. Unfortunately to work with him I needed to learn Oranda and Forex. This effort cost me several months and generally a bust for me.
Stay away from this product or if you really want it, contact me. I have one copy available.
It was a nice read. Good to know. ( I’ve seen the Boiler Room and its nasty. )
I received an exact call as described above. First, I smelled something fishy about their charitable donations to a hospital. Second, I simply thought that if the software truly offered the said values (86% accuracy is way more than expected, too good to be true!) , they did NOT have to make a sale call. I would go days and nights hunting them and begging to buy. In addition, I would pay double the sale amount for their charity. I politely terminated the conversation and put their phone # in the blocked list.
You verified what my online search seemed to indicate. Thanks for investigating these folks. I had no interest in this product, as I received an aggressive cold call from a spoofed phone number. Have traded long enough to know that if it sounds to good to be true – then it is too good to be true. I read through the many reviews and felt as though the negative reviews were pretty consistent in what they had to say. The positive reviews were strange – a pro trader with lots of experience – buying this sort of software – huh? Anyone with lots of trading experience buying such a product? – not likely! (perhaps right after buying some swampland in Florida).
Horrible service and salespeople at VantagePoint software. Desperately trying to pin you down and make you feel like worthless even before seeing the product.
“I get it. Losing money doesn’t really matter to ya. Give us a call when you need us.” — Brad Rogers
Yes, indeed, I too were attentive to Brad the Closer in listening to him apply his trade during the webinar. However, despite his smooth and convincing delivery, I resisted because my personal policy is to never make a major purchase impetuously without first performing research, which BTW, started with Trading Schools.org.
I wanted to look at VP’s “deal.” I get a huge number of come-ons about how rich they want to make me. Ugh. It’s all BS. I loved the “Shill-Test” in your writeup. All this stuff is massively expensive and pretty much worthless major-league nonsense. This sounds even worse. I replied to the email from their rep, Vinnie Andriotti, with the link to this page, nothing else. I’m sure he’ll get the message.
I have been bombarded by VP emails. I never answered any of their sales calls. I never intended to buy anything from them, however they sent me an email for a one hour “seminar” tomorrow July 11 at 4 (PST? EST? no mention. just as I sent them my email I got a popup “Never mind the seminar” here is the link…. so no seminar… just go to the link. So they dont want to waste time on showing stuff in real time to prove their software works. Juts go to the link and get bombarded by more crap…
I figured I would check the reviews on them before wasting an hour.
Actually I half expected what i read from your review.
Thanks for taking the tie to write
Thank you for the honest in depth review of this company! I was curious about some of the great reviews, I didn’t even think about the affiliate companies writing reviews that help sell their product; until you mentioned it in your review.
Thank you again!
The idea that *any* software, “system,” or guru can consistently (86% !) predict both the direction and the timing of a stock’s price movement is mathematically absurd. I doubt that a single (real) professional trader has that high a success rate on real trades on a real stock in a real market in this world. Here is a simple illustration why, based on a mathematics process called geometric progression. If such a system existed, and a trader like myself got ahold of it, they would trade both call and put options with it continually. Starting with just $1K of initial capital in an options-enabled brokerage account, they’d invest about a hundred dollars per option position in about 10 different companies at once. Assuming just an 80% predictive accuracy, 8 of those $100 bills would (@ least) *double*, while the other two would essentially vaporize. So, inside of *one week*, $1K becomes $1.8K. The next week, they would repeat this process precisely the same, but starting with more $$ to invest, their $1.8K would become about $3.24K (now two weeks into this imaginary adventure). Inside of two months, they would have traded that initial $1K into over $110K. In under 12 WEEKS, the value of that trading account would stand at over $1.1 *million*. NO ONE using that software would *need* to work at that company any more, one summer after discovering it. . . . This imaginary example does not even take into account the greeks phenomena of options, how the options don’t always track directly with the underlying stock, how by participating in a market, you change it, or how you would *soon* run out of options contracts that you could actually trade (always limited availability at whatever time & strike price). All such con men should be personally sued out of their money and put in jail. All companies behaving as you have described should be sued out of existence.
Thank you for taking the time to write this review. I have an idea it has saved me more than the cost of the software.
Did you find this review helpful? Yes (22) No
FYI: A sales guy just called to tell me that they predicted the market impact of Powell’s Fed gaf’s, last Fall, before he said them, as well as said, they also predicted the impact on Boeing stock before the 2019 crash….labelling it all – artificial intelligence….Claiming to have predicted every market correct+crash, since their s/w inception….Haha…Wow!
I recently went through the training progress to sell VP A I an I can tell you it’s a scam – a sham – I’ve been a futures trader for 8 +years – It help with direction and that’s it – nothing more than you can get from your free longer term charts with the moving averages.
I can not with good conscience recomend this product or AI ?to anyone . FACT .
Just think about it logically / they spent 10,000,000.00 US dollars they say in its production – if it really worked can you imagine a 10 million dollar margin account being propelled by AI (Artificial intelligence) rocketing through the currency’s of this planet. They say they have 35,000 customers – times an average sale of 10,000 dollars I being kind to their average sale . That’s 350 million over 40 years or even the last 20 175 million . Minus huge overhead ie saleries , bricks an mortar buildings , there office rent, office rent in 3 locations … I gaurentee you . 10,000,000 dollars on margine in over 10 years just 10 years – YOU WOULD BE A BILLIONAIRE ! So simply as a busdinwss manager on the out side looking in – the company’s a joke . PERIOD . They use scripts to take advantage of people’s hopes and dreams like the boiler rooms of the 80s . I do well with good old TD Ameritrade ! Good luck everyone all the best .
Come on RB Higgins! This post is bogus. They don’t have three locations and they have never claimed to have multiple locations. If you ACTUALLY worked for them, you would already know this! So obviously you never worked for them which means your post is a complete and total fabrication. And why are you quoting the dollars in USD? Sounds like you’re just another imposter…code word for “Competitor or Troll” No one in the USA quotes money in USD so perhaps you’re abroad? So how did you get a job with them if you’re not in the USA? #Bogus Review. Wake up people! The trolls that are posting all of the negatives aren’t even using the software. The only one that I’m convinced is actually using it is Dean Jenkins over at Followmetrades.com and he seems to really like it. And Emmitt swears by this guy. So what does that tell you? How can Emmitt shun VantagePoint when he’s never used it, but he promotes Dean Jenkins who openly admits that the software actually works? Use your brain folks, VantagePoint really does work and can give you a serious edge. Do more homework, don’t believe the haters. This is nothing more than “fake news”.
I received a call yesterday and sat through the demo today. I was uncomfortable with the pitch and decided to look for reviews.
Thank you for your review. It confirmed my doubts.
One more thing – Call me snob but I value education and my first red flag came when I saw that the current CEO of VanatagePoint (the son of the founder) does not have a college degree.
About 10 yrs ago I met a fund manager that had purchased the software– about $4-5k worth if I recall correctly. I got his name as a user from the Mendelsohn’s son who was working for the company at that time. High pressure sales as mentioned. They call often and for days on end trying to wear you down. The fund manager purchased bonds, S&P and one or two other modules…I believe they threw one in for free for him to test…He could not make it work and gave all the software to me for free and went back to a simple moving average crossover system. That should tell you something!
Emmett, I appreciate your reviews but don’t stoop to their level by using language that is only used by people who don’t respect other people when they themselves have issues to solve like proper grammar. Please remove any f— words from your reviews as I cannot recommend your reviews if you use that kind of language. I’m sure it is an oversight on your part that you would love to fix.
I agree, cuss words are certainly not necessary and only undermine your perceived educational background and degree of professionalism. i can say i have had vantagepoint for 3 months now and it has taken about 2 months to get used to using it, and most of you were not at all patient or disciplined long enough to make it work. i made my 8 of 10 strictly vantagepoint (naked options) trades profitable while on vacation on the other side of the world with only 1 hour of prep each evening scanning for new trades, and I generated $3,000 in profits on those 10 trades in those 30 days, with the losses being about $200. the beauty of it was less than $300 invested per trade. Next month will be much better. don’t critique something until you’ve really given it a try, which means you must be willing to anti up in this case. They have been around this long because it works, and i might ad that i am taking full advantage of their included 4 months of training. Rob
Thanks a lot for the review. Today I was approached by a third party company promoting Vantage Point software. I was curious when I saw the 86% claim and started searching. 🙂
Here is the third part company which sent me the promotional email: https://followmetrades.com/
While I do believe that followmetrades.com is a legit company and have shown great results, them promoting Vanatage Point is just ridiculous. I did reply back to the email and let Dean Jenkins know that he shouldnt promote a company with such bad reputation. I sent him a link to this page. I am hoping he will stop his promotion.
As we discussed in our email exchange, I am fully aware of this negative review. I fully tested VantagePoint before implementing it into my trading and the results of the testing were very good. Bottom line is that my results improved and I continue to use VantagePoint and it continues to be a valuable part of the suite of tools I use.
I had a Skype session with Emmett and told him I was using VantagePoint and his expression was priceless! His jaw literally dropped and he had to stop and get a nicotine hit from his vape before continuing.
I also sent him my VantagePoint test results and it sounds like he is planning a follow up post at some point.
I appreciate your positive comments and looking out for my reputation!
There is no magic indicator, no magic feather and no free lunch on Wall Street. Trading is hard work and takes incredible discipline.
My eyes are open and I am convinced VantagePoint is legit and is helping my trading results.
It’s true. I grabbed my vape and went gangbusters.
Dean loves it. He trusts it. He uses it. And Dean does quite well.
My main gripe is the army of dancing monkeys in their sales operation.
Well . . . I “like” it. Love is a strong word. I try not to love anything that can’t love me back.
I think they have a solid product and that they would do better without the aggressive sales tactics.
The salesman kept me on the phone for almost an hour and wouldn’t tell me what his software showed for AAPL today (1/24/2019). My software indicated a start of a down trend. He showed me a chart that his software produced for some non-descript stock and went on and on about where the buy points and sell points were. It was nothing more than a 40 day simple moving average and 40 day exponential moving average and, of course, the lines crossed occasionally to indicate action needed. With only ten minutes left until market close I hung up on him and bought a calendar put spread on AAPL.
THIS IS A HIGH PRICED HIGH PRESSURE SELLING TEAM. THEIR PRODUCTS ARE NO BETTER THAN BASIC TECHNICAL ANALYSIS. IF WANT TO TO FEEL LIKE A COMPLETE IDIOT, BUY THIS PRODUCT, I KNOW I FEEL LI,E A FOOL AND AT 63 SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER THAN SUCCUMB TO THESE CROOKS. THIS WAS A COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY.
Obviously, you are not familiar with what VantagePoint is and what they offer.
At age 72 I know this is a good product. I have it. I use it. I have profited with it immediately after purchasing it.
If you set up 3 day vs 8 day Moving Average lines, you will find something dangerously close to Vantage Point signals.
You are welcome.
Hehe. you are absolutely right! I use the 3 – 8 – 20 ema and it works very well and cost me nothing extra!
Dangerously close. How close is that? Simple Moving Averages? If that is what you use to PREDICT future probabilities, you must have a MAGICAL calculation for those Averages.
Care to share your MAGIC?
I am currently going through the “review” period of the software. My review will be 100% objective. I am a stock investor as opposed to a stock trader and want to do more trading. The sales pitch and negotiations was interesting. They really want to get that credit card number and when I said I I truly wasn’t interested the price kept going down and down. Then say things like evaluate it and if you don’t like it return it. Don’t mention the return free. Many of the stocks that I trade where I would of used the software for my exits they don’t track. When I contacted that department on why they don’t have data for TRXC, the response was not why they don’t track it, the response was “we don’t follow every stock”. Of course I know that, that’s why I am asking genius? “”up to” 86pct is used a lot which of course we know means absolutely nothing. They could say up to 100% and that would be correct also. I spoke to them about the tricky wording and they said its 70%-86% accurate depending on the sector. I then asked what sector is 86%, the response was “I don’t know” I would pay 100k for software that is 70% accurate and become a millionaire in a year. They have added crypto which I do trade, but I trade alt-coins so many they don’t cover.
From a software standpoint and function, I give it a 5 star rating, as investors fancy software that causes you to lose money means nothing.
I have tracked two marijuana stocks I am in CRON and CGC. The charts and signalas have been accurate for them on good entry points, I am going to use it for exits. The Crypto has not been that accurate, but crypto is a different breed of trading. I want to follow up and help the consumer. I will let you guys know how those trades do.
Frankly, I am pretty surprised to have recently discovered that Dean at FollowMeTrades starting using the software…and he loves it!
Am working on some sort of an update regarding his experience.
I actually wanted to contact you about this.
I’ve been a subscriber to Dean from FollowMeTrades for years, and you’ve given 2 glowing reviews. But I’ve also noticed Dean uses the software (I stopped joining the wed night reviews as they don’t add much value and work gets in the way but I used to) so when I recently joined one becuase I had the day off I was surprised to see them going on and on about vantagepoint software.
And now I am getting emails pushing the software from Dean. I guess he’s after that sweet sweet referal bonus money?
I can send you an email of the email I got from Dean. It has a subject like “Vantagepoint AI Software – Take it for a test drive!” and there’s definitely a referal in the link.
Actually, I am working on an update for Dean regarding his use of Vantage Point.
Apparently, he finds some value in it. Which of course, conflicts with my review of Vantage Point.
At this point, I cannot say much without revealing the new article. But it’s important that readers have more than just one opinion of a product or service.
Hi Emmett, when can we expect this updated review for FollowMetrades. I am close to pulling the trigger and buying. I don’t want to throw money away on this if followmetrade is going to lose its positive review in this update.
Some comments about Dean’s use of Vantagepoint. 1-Dean will readily admit that his use of Vantagepoint is but one tool of many that he uses to make his trades, and that he would never use VP by itself to select a trade. 2-Dean’s methodology of his VP “study” is faulty and refutable. When he did the “study” he used two completely different time frames, “before using VP” and “after using VP”. This in itself should negate the usefulness of the study because two different time periods can yield greatly different results in overall trade success. Not only does he use many tools (or indicators) to select his trades, he also uses his many years of experience in selecting trades and has refined this into an art. A better way of doing the study would have been for him to perform a kind of double blind study wherein he would evaluate a stock before seeing what VP says about it, make a decision on it, record the decision, then see what VP said about the stock, record that decision, and follow both decisions of the same stock and compare it during the same time period. This way he isolates his artful experience from VP and uses the same stock during the same time period. It also allows for documenting on which trades VP was actually used and useful. This is no way a commentary on Dean – his training and services areoutstanding – but rather a commentary on his Vantagepoint “study” results.
would you share how much did you pay for what software?
I agree, except that they do post a list on the web with each tracked instrument’s degree of accuracy.
I used the software for about a year and do not think it is a scam. The predictive lines are similar to moving averages and the bottom moving indicator is easy to understand. It can help improve your trading if you know what you are doing. If you are not a skilled trader, you probably should wait before you purchase expensive software like this. It helps, it is not perfect, but provides some direction. I see it as another software tool, but always rely on my technical analysis first.
Join the discussion Hello Randy, you mentioned you rely on your technical analysis first. Isn’t vantage technical analysis? I also got their sales pitch and evaluating it now. The “up to” 86% accurate is misleading. I mentioned this and the answer was then stated as the software is 70-86% accurate. As a stock investor (not trader) I’ve had some good success. But mostly from long term holdings.
Is it worth $4,900, or whatever they can get out of you? Probably not.. The guy I dealt with there initially was great. He is no longer with the company. Since then, they try to upsell me even though I was told I own the software after it is paid for. The tech people are o-k, but they have this new scheme to try and upsell your training which I was told came with the software. Oh, and they will try and upsell you on every improvement or upgrade. So, I suggest you get in writing that all upgrades and all training is paid for with your expenditure on the software. Overall, an unpleasant experience, dealing with boiler room type salespeople who don’t seem to care about you, only the almighty dollar.
Ok if the software is so bad members should be requesting a full refund minus the $495 “tire kicker fee”, right?
Good luck with that.
Yet, I would guess that most skillful traders that are VP members are not seeking a refund, because the software works. It is trend predictive software. I do agree that it helps to have some technical trading background, but also VP is a different way of thinking and you need to get the training and understanding of how it works and how to use it to make money, and that takes time. So you have to be prepared to bite the bullet and pay for the basics and stick with it. What I do not like about the sales tactics of VP is that once you get the basics, they have quite a long list of “add-ons” that they entice you with about every other training session, but I always make sure I get some instructions to go with the extras. You don’t need the extras, they will just help improve your profits, so you can add on at your own pace. You don’t get all stock “sectors”, ETF sectors, FOREX sectors, FUTURES sectors, etc. etc: you have to purchase each and every sector you think you might need or be able to afford for the initial “package” that they tailor to what they hear you say you need or desire or are currently trading: it’s up to you to be able to say, “no, I don’t need that initially until I learn how to use your software and start making a return on my investment.” Rob
Great review, I saw an article on yahoo finance that referred to this software which in all actuality was probably just a clever ad.
I looked into it because I was impressed with how accurate it predicted my rise in Sirius stock recently but it was likely a post dated “article”.
Wouldn’t think yahoo would want to partner with such a shady company
Yahoo promotes scams every day.
Thank you. I pretty much figured this is the case.
Plus I have an Ameritrade account with MANY types of advise, ‘predictors’ (although they don’t as much predict, they show the status of companies plus analyst ratings plus news etc. Plus LOTS of help with different types of investment. Couldn’t be happier, and frankly it’s practically free.
Thing is you still have to know what you’re doing. Anyone who tells you that you don’t have to ‘know’ anything – just follow the formula – is flat out lying.
Everyone here is saying how bad vantage point is so why aren’t you rating them on BBB? They currently have an A rating with one negative and about a dozen positives. Why not nail them if it’s a scam?
BBB is a ‘pay to play’ scheme.
Pay the fee to become a member of the local BBB chapter, and they will allow you ‘resolve’ disputes and then remove them.
Not everyone. Maybe I am just gullible and real lucky lately with my trading, and I am one of the least trusting of trading-software packages working, but right now/so far I believe in this software and my belief is increasing on a daily basis: it keeps me on the correct side of the trade but more importantly, it keeps me from getting into losing trades, and that is priceless in my opinion: trading less and trading better. Rob
One way they are supposedly able to have high accuracy is to not include all stocks, as they imply. They only include the ones they believe they can have accuracy with. They lead you to believe that their program is all-inclusive by saying that they have all sectors. They only allow a refund on your investment if you notify them within 15 days of your purchase. It took me a lot longer than that to realize that it is not for me. In my case, I got screwed for nearly six thousand dollars.
But, I own my copy of the software, right? Anyone want to buy a used trader program really cheap?
Hello Lanny I’m interested in buying your software, can you cantact me in private?
I spent $5000 for the software and did make back the money after 4 months. It did force you to trade frequently and to get rid of losing propositions quickly and not hold them forever. It is debatable as to if this is better than just buying an index fund and holding this forever. One has to constantly trade every day and you cannot look at their indicators in isolation since there are varying degrees of “correctness” with their analytical predictions. My little success with the program is probably all due to Trump (meaning the overall rise in the stock market). Probable that a SCAN in TOS using various criteria would work just as well as this program together with an inspection of earnings. I was very annoyed to get a message from them today with an update to their program for $1500 together with a new neural network prediction program which I think is a farce. The sad reality is that you can only make money with this program by trading all the time. Additionally you cannot blindly follow their suggestions. You need to consider data from other sources in order to up the probability of a jump in the stock price. This does get tiring after a while particularly with losing money.
My 2 cents. I have been trading for 2 and 1/2 years. This past year, maybe 6-8 months ago (?. Time flies when you are having fun), I got a call from VantagePoint salesman. He was very good. Even told me his wife was from my hometown (apparently that helped convince me). Very long story short. I paid $3900 for the VP software package. Yes, of course he came down from the “retail” purchase price. I think he actually, really did like me! While learning to use the software, oh yea, I forgot, I had to pay an additional $250.00 for the nightly updates software. I studied hard, viewed all of the youtube video’s. Thanks Hal and Matt. Hey Hal, I too was a military aviator. Before I place a trade, I check the VP, predicted high-low, neural index, PTS,M,L and it’s relation to the 0-1 neural and PRSI. I have realized that this about 50/50 right/wrong. Definitely, without a moment’s doubt, NOT 86% accurate. When calling customer support, I have found that, after speaking with them, I know more about trading than they do. Granted, they do have good answers, like, “why are you trading difficult instruments like options?” That’s all I know. Now, for the past few weeks I am receiving emails to pay them more money for new 9.2 version. Maybe 9.0 is becoming obsolete? 50% off new courses, new market sectors, etc. I am about to unsubscribe. My other trading buddy laughs at me when I tell him what VP is predicting. I hang up, knowing full well, he is right. Since using this technology, I have had more than 60% drawdown. I know, I know, nobody forced me to buy it. As a relatively new trader, I was simply looking for a really good indicator to help me add a little bit to my retirement. Surprise! Oh well, maybe I won’t live as long as I thought anyway. I have always been in the business of helping others. Maybe it’s the Boy Scout in me. Shame on the “users” of the world!
Unfortunately it is honest people who buy these products and scoundrels who sell them.
So sorry for your loss.
It’s hard to let go of that “I really, really, really, really hope this works — and I just know it will” feeling.
If there was a software that hit 86% winning percentage, the folks who made that software wouldn’t be peddling it, even for $4,000; they’d be in the Caribbean, sipping those pina coladas.
It took me several years to learn how to trade, to watch price action, find the indicators that confirmed what price action was telling me. Time spent in front of the screen, watching the charts. It took me a while to develop my trading system, one that worked a good percentage of the time, but that also limited my losses (losses are a part of trading, that’s also hard to accept if it’s your real money leaving your account).
When I developed my system, I wanted several things: a system that worked on any market and any time frame, a system that gave me a precise entry point, a precise stop loss to limit my loss, and several targets where I could take profit. It suited me and gave me confidence because I had worked at it. I’ve used it for more than 15 years.
Good to see you that you are still around these pages rtchoke. Give your system a fancy name, build a website with plenty of trader porn and slap a hefty price tag on the purchase price and you can be sipping those pina coladas in the Caribbean yourself.
Hey, stop that! You cannot be giving away the trade secrets of straydogtrading dot com and my fantastic fantasytradingroom dot com.
How dare you?!
I too purchased it but only was left to pay around $700 for their non-refundable fee even though the software was returned. Really a huge scam and I wish I would’ve known.
Now Larry Williams is pushing this system. Williams claims he has been a friend of Mendelsohn for 40 years. It is apparent or probable that Williams is earning a referral fee or commission to jam some more people into this salesfest. funny to think someone like Williams who sells his own worthless garbage would tell his people to buy this system. If Larry’s plan works so well, why would you need this? Salespeople stick together and that is what Williams is and has been for decades.
Williams is selling his 2 indicators on their software at $1500 each. I had the EXACT same experience with the company as described in this original post. They failed to predict Gold’s fall a few days ago… The normal TradeStation LW indicators didn’t. I followed LW indicators and got out right before the fall! Saved by TradeStation LW indicators and NOT with VantagePoint. They charge a $495 restocking fee, which will be deducted from your refund. And they require that you get a datafeed with another company at $360 per year with TradersOnly. TradersOnly did give me a full refund.
I purchased VP for $20000 around May 2017. For the first a couple of weeks, it worked ok. The performance was getting worse and worse recently. The predicted range displayed on the chart always look good because the ranges it predicted are extremely wide!
Yes, the sales is very aggressive that’s why I ended up spent $20K. I got a phone call recently from the sales lady. She said VP had improved the software and asked me to pay more for the update! I was told the software was life time supported for the money I paid. Now she asks additional payment for the support!
Don’t deal with this company!
Bin Xue, allow me to introduce you to Pete. You two will have a lot in common.
Nah, this one does not seem to have taken a high-interest loan. I think it may have been from savings? Who knows? Still a bummer though.
$20K for a software package from a vendor who shows no proof what so ever he can trade profitable. And then they have the nerve to ask for more money for their BS updates. Did you think about asking, “If your damn software works so well, why are you not using it to make money instead of scamming me out of more money”.
This might be the text book case of throwing good money after bad.
Emmett’s job is not done until there are no more stories like this. I surely hope you did not buy the SW after reading this review. Hopefully these reviews pop up first on any Google Search. Anyone dumb enough to buy the SW after reading this review, Gets what they deserve!!!!
And I really wish there was some brave lawyer who would start a class action lawsuits against the big players that promote these con artist vendors like Ninja Trader. If a major lawsuit was filed and won, then NT would stop promoting con artist vendor and start putting up huge warning about demand proof as all (yes all IMHO, I now is bad to be absolute, but this industry deserves it) these day trading vendors are con artist.
I too purchased the software. Luckily, I only came out with a $600 plus the monthly fee but got the rest back cause it was still the trial period. Real waste of money.
I got contacted by VP today(a call from Land O Lakes, Florida).Spoke with one person, then got introduced to an expert who gave me the long online presentation.He started with selling $6,000 package.When I kept declining he came down to $3000.Then he sort of hang up.Got another call 15 min later from my own area code, Columbus, Ohio.This time he gave a number of someones who have been using this product for years & is very successful & Happy.
I too was caught in the hype, 86% percent accurate my ass. Now i can’t even email them. I think i will call them like shall said and mention the BBB. will follow up later
I have recently been on the calling list of these guys. They said I recently attended a webinar or something. I have been trading for over 25 years and I rarely fall for this type of marketing anymore, but they have a “hook” about predicting the future. Clever marketing that even catches the interest of someone who has been doing this for a long time and has wasted 10’s of thousands of dollars falling for such claims from a variety of “scams”.
I won’t call them out publicly here, but I am always happy to give my honest opinion on these “scams” that I have previously fallen for. The reality is that there is no “Holy Grail”. Regardless of these claims, picking direction, be it stocks, futures or forex is a 50/50 proposition at the instant the order is executed.
What is accurate is that a financial instrument will stay within its’ one standard deviation range 68% of the time and will move outside that range 32% of the time. The math works!!
Relative to Vantage Point software, thanks to this site for confirming my suspicions. You know it is a scam when they keep reducing the price and offering additional features to close you. They can go back and “ask their supervisor” to get this price cut, etc. Sound familiar?
Thanks again, I owe you one!
Thanks John for the good comment and information. Value added. I have to agree with the 50:50 rule in my experience. Short term gains/prediction are tough to impossible.
Their environment is completely boiler room environment. Don’t believe the accuracy that the salesperson tells you. “up to 86% accurately 1 to 3 days in advance” The accuracy is the neural networks not the direction.
The Neural Index predicts if a 3 period moving average of typical price will be higher or lower two trading periods in the future. Since this prediction is either correct or incorrect, its accuracy can be measured in terms of percent correct.
For example, if the Neural Index is correct 86 of 100 periods, then the accuracy is 86%
The entire company is only worried about profits and selling the software for as much as possible. The script is there with many key words to protect them but in reality it is easy to see through all the BS that is spewed during the presentation.
The free demo is all scripted and they look for charts that they can wow you with by showing you what someone could have picked but more than not they don’t pick it cause there are so many choices to choose from.
Don’t be fooled by any of the sales tactics that this company uses. Does it give you somewhat of an advantage? A little but no where near what they claim.
No one has mentioned their one achilles heal that they do seem to care about despite the fact of all the lies about accuracy. I too was taken by them, but was able to get a third of my money back by threatening a BBB notification. Believe it or not just like the algotrading.net guys listed here with a good rating who I also can give a honest review of, these horseshit excuse for human beings at Vantage point do somewhat care about their BBB rating and you can use that against them. Algo after a year has now just become profitable for me personally, not counting the startup fees, and there was a 45% drawdown. Ouch! most people cannot take that and it was their NQ product not the ESTY which does seem to be eventually profitable if you can stick with it. Which like this website says is so f’ing rare. Threaten them with their BBB rating to at least not throw up from the idea of how much you have been taken.
they swindled $7500 from me; software is garbage. The reps keep saying I need more training and need to watch more of their videos online to be a successful trader. Their 80% accuracy is made up. You may make money doing the opposite of what the software says.
You will not make money doing what the SW says or doing the opposite.
Yes you figured it out that is Con Man 101 to say, “You just have to work harder” . And then they have the shills saying how they are hitting it out of the park so you figure it must be you. And that is why so few stand up against these con artist. I know I have been there and believe that crap until I woke up and realize the whole industry is one big con with people like Lying Dean Handley and Run for Ecuador Big Mike and his mindless group of morons all creating this huge scam industry. If I was AG I would take them all out and have them shot.
In fact I will tell you how I really feel, “I HATE THOSE SITES”. IMHO they are the worst of the worst pretending to be on your side and vetting vendors. What a complete joke. They vet no one!! In fact one of those sites will tell you it does not matter if the vendor is making money as you might be able to use the information to help in your own trading. Give me a F’in Break. In other words, “The vendor is a failed trader selling some crap system that they could never trade profitable, but heck maybe you will luck out and figure out how to.” The odds of that happening are Absolute Zero. Yes, not .0001%, but Zero. You will never trade profitable following some failed trader’s system.
The reason I came and post at this site, is not because it is perfect as it is far from that, but because Emmett is the first one to call these Scamming Con Artist out. First one to dare to ask these con artists for actual proof. This whole industry is built on lies and absolutely no proof of any of their claims. In fact you are shamed for daring to ask for proof and question the great con artist, I mean guru. I would ask for proof and was always told I do not need to show you proof, which is one of the reasons why I started to wake up from that Fantasy World. So it is great to see a site that calls them out.
” In fact one of those sites will tell you it does not matter if the vendor is making money as you might be able to use the information to help in your own trading. Give me a F’in Break. In other words, “The vendor is a failed trader selling some crap system that they could never trade profitable, but heck maybe you will luck out and figure out how to.” ” And according to Big Mike a doctor doesn’t have to be able to treat illness, a dentist doesn’t have to be able to fill a tooth, a plumber doesn’t have to know how to clear a drain, hell no one needs to be able to do anything that they tell you they can do. What a wonderful world Big Mike’s world is.
I talked to these folks just recently. The concept is interesting but the reviews are not good. Friendly people with varying levels of experience. They are aggressive closers. Each time I told them that I wasn’t going to make a decision today, he treated it as if it were a negotiating position. If you’re prone to acting impulsively, you are going to lose everything in the market anyway, so getting burned there might save you a bundle. The first rule of trading is that it involves risk. I sent an email with a few solid questions but didn’t get a response. The salespeople should do what many of the customers have done: learn from the experience and move on.
Per the review, I’d gather that since 99.9% of all these tradingschool vendors are shamshows, the “paid shills” are mostly part of the organization or friends or family themselves.
This software got an excellent review in TASC magazine a while back – directly catered for the novice retailer they lead the sheep to the wolf.
This just emphasizes how careful one need to be when navigating the jungle of websites, magazines, conferences etc.
I spoke on the phone to one of their salesmen years ago and he actually said that the software “predicts the future.” Yep, I typed that correctly. It seems that the bigger the balls out lie that the representative comes up with the better they are at their job. I told him to contact Stephen Hawking, because although he’s primarily interested in the possibility of time travel the ability to predict the future would probably also be of interest to him. “Click!”