Thanks for reading and responding to today’s update of TopStep Trader
On July 31, 2015 I published a gushing, candy coated review of TopStep Trader. You can read the original review here. Part of my motivation was monetary. TopStep Trader has an affiliate program that pay’s companies and individuals a commission of sales that are referred to them through a third party webpage. From July 31, 2015 to Jan 1st, 2016 I was paid a grand total of $2,150 in affiliate commissions. In addition to the affiliate commissions, I was also sent two frozen pizza’s from TopStep Trader, as a thank you gift.
On January 1st, 2016 I decide to discontinue my relationship with TopStep Trader. Why?
TopStop Trader Unofficial Complain Department
Almost immediately after publishing the review of TopStep Trader, I began to receive a steady stream of complaints. The complaints were usually the following:
- Its a hamster wheel
- I thought that once I passed the combine, I would receive a trading account that was identical to the combine
- I didnt know that I had to pay the exchange $85 to $200 a month in “professional” exchange fee’s
- Nobody told me about the Trader Prep Period
- They only give you 10 days to make money
- I wasted money on a TopStep Trader recommended mentor
- They intentionally confuse to keep collecting monthly combine fee’s
I am not going to go into the details of these very common complaints. But these complaints represent the bulk of complaints. How many complaints have I received? Plenty. If you Google search any term related to TopStep Trader, you will find my review on page one of Google search. As a result, approximately 2 to 3 thousand people, each month, read the original review, and continue to do so. As TradingSchools.org continues to grow, yet more people are continuing to read the highly positive review.
The side effect of the web traffic is that I have sort of become the central, unofficial complaint department of TopStep Trader. When the complaints from the original review started to consistently hit my email inbox, I knew it was time to pull the plug on TopStep Trader. Although, I still like the general idea of qualified traders receiving funding, the complaints left me vulnerable to criticism.
Now that I have cleared the air. The real reason for this post is because I need the help of the trading community. In the past few months, I have spoken to approximitely 30 ex-TopStep Traders and have accumulated quite bit of useful data. However, there are hundreds of people taking the combine each month and the really big question that everyone wants to know is whether anyone is actually making money with this concept?
I did reach out directly to TopStep Trader and attempted to curate this data. But what I was given can only be described as a highly skewed and colorful representation of statistical fiction. In short, it was crap. And so I here we are…I need people to complete the survey at the bottom of this page. If you have ever paid for a combine at TopStep Trader, then I need your input. Even if you only paid $1 for a combine, I need your input. I NEED YOUR INPUT.
If you know of anyone that completed the combine, is currently a funded trader, or was a funded trader…then please encourage them to participate in this survey. The data that I currently have represent only the “super complaints”, what I need is more data and more input so that a follow up review can be published. The follow up review should give us a much clearer picture of TopStep Trader.
Once again, thanks for your input and participation.
The SURVEY IS NOW CLOSED.
This is a FEE based internet FUTURES trading contest kind of scam which assures to open a LIVE funded account if you make a specified amount of money trading on a Simulated Trading account. Its called COMBINE.
Most are scammed in a never ending LOOP. Even if they manage to pass the test they soon end up doing the COMBINE again in few days or weeks as the room to trade is very tight and impossible for most dreamers if they trigger some losses in their accounts.
Also the tax rate for FUTURES traders is 23%, but they send a 1099 which hikes the tax to nearly 38% + their 20% cut which comes to total 58%……. who would be so dumb not to know the diff between 58 and 23 ?
Rampant False advertisement wherein they show new traders Funded every month but they are not.
They are the old Funded traders who constantly go back to Combine pay fees again and go LIVE for few more days or weeks and then back again to the paid Combine. That is the design of TST. It’s a scam
TIMELINE of the tricks they played with me ….beamerUSA
NOV 4th COMBINE started 100K
+1354.13
NOV 6th COMBINE deleted
Say a Complimentary Combine has been given
Which is of 50K……and say cannot credit the already gained +1,354.13
With lot of hassle KEVIN puts back my old COMBINE +1K back
I instructed KEVIN to merge the accts as it is difficult switching accts.
And I never wanted the free complimentary COMBINE as I was already up +1,354.13
KEVIN sends email that he has merged the accts……LIAR
He never did what he said in emails…
Traders got to pursue emails or concentrate on trading?
Then I make +6000 reaching the target for a LIVE FUNDED ACCT in under 10 days.
Then suddenly on Friday NOV 18th the ACCT is DELETED
When asked why they say the acct was not paid for…..
Whereas no COMBINE starts without being PAID for by CC
Then they ask to send the proof of payment.
I sent it …..
Monday they say they have refunded my fees and I am banned from the Program
ERIN says Your actions this morning on Squawk Radio Chat and through email have forced us to enforce this ban from doing business with TopstepTrader.
I have not logged in the useless Squawk Radio since a MONTH…. ! Liars
This implies that she had some instructions from the Squwk operator but he nor she knows that there will be no IP proof that I logged and will have no comments to show from me. Erin made that comment in haste without knowing that everything can be tracked in this digital age…..LIAR
This whole situation I suspect was initiated by the Squawk Radio operator and ERIN where I had suggested to talk about Critical EIA reports and FOMC meeting which is only for couple of minutes in week. The operator cracks jokes and talk immaterial things when in those few minutes the Market moves hundreds of POINTS.
Traders are in Jeopardy if they don’t know what is going on in those few minutes. And he did not like my suggestions as he has to work diff for those few minutes and keep track of the announcements.
Rampant False advertisement wherein they show new traders Funded every month but they are not.
They are the old Funded traders who constantly go back to Combine pay fees again and go LIVE for few more days or weeks and then back again to the paid Combine. That is the design of TST. It’s a scamI was not going to go into that cycle as my results of wins were very high and I would stay there and I wouldn’t be a Cash Cow for them.
Also the tax rate for FUTURES traders is 23%, but they send a 1099 which hikes the tax to nearly 38% + their 20% cut which comes to total 58%……. who would be so dumb not to know the diff between 58 and 23 ? Not me and I was vocal about it in the chat room….this is another reason for them to Breach my Contract.
By the way I have also WON a third Prize @ TST in a CONTEST against hundreds of traders trading FUTURES.
Every move is documented in chains of emails.
BREACH of CONTRACT by TopStepTrader.com
Poof, it’s gone. With the new update and website … all of your previous work is gone. Your tick balance has also been zeroed out … is this right?
I was a 14 year old trader who was funded in a 10k combine. I passed everything including the funded trader prep. After the 10 day grace period of the funded account, my balance was -$5 (negative). SO being down 5 dollars my account was pulled. My dad called them and spoke with them and managed to get the funding back as I was only 14 and how could they do such a thing.
I kept the account for another 3 months but was so afraid to do anything because if I had one bad trade my account would be under the required value to stay active. All the while, it was costing $85 / month for the exchange fees.
I eventually just traded one afternoon and blow it up out of spite.
Then no sooner did I do that, I get an email from them, saying too bad, but hope you try another combine and give it another go.
My dad has passed 3 combines at all levels and done so with flying colors all in less than 15 days .
He had the same problem once into funding. Regardless of which combine you pass, you have this 10 day period in the funded account where all the rules change in order to keep your funding. The rules are so hard.
In the end, what TST does is assures themselves you are over zero to continue passed the 10 days. So after 10 days and your profitable , you are not really trading their money anyhow.
I now know what a hamster wheel, and pyramid schemes are first hand.
I know Beanz_Jr during my stint of trading….BAD TST. Its a scam. If they can CON a 14 year old then they can CON their own mother also.
The reason I think TST is impossible is due to the probability distribution of winning/losing trades. Over time EVERY method of trading will experience the freakish run of losing trades in a row, or losing periods. It’s not the fault of the trader. It’s just probabilities. If you always have a trailing max drawdown, by law of the distribution curve in trading, you WILL hit it. There is no way around it. It’s just a matter of time. Traders with the own real money accounts on their own experience drawdown on a regular basis. Drawdowns of 10% or more are frequent and very normal. Research probability of ruin and you can test it for yourself. The TST structure is mathematically impossible for nearly everyone. I’m sure there’s .01% of traders who are freakishly good at risking a handful of ticks and catching a big runner. But that is by far the rare exception, and even so, I wonder if anyone has lasted with a funded account. If it was a positive stat they would publish it.
i can’t imagine staying above $0 after 10 trading days for very long, given my extremely picky intra-day trading style AND the fact that I would have to close positions into economic data reports with TST. I’m more of a daily trader, rarely having more than 1 trade in a day as I’ll pick the best setup when I see correlation between my choices.
Really got no idea who TST would be possible. given profit scaling, it is my understanding that max contracts can be exceeded just by having a bracket order ( profit exit, stop loss). so if I chose the 30k combine, made it to funded…. that’s 3 max contracts to start. So I can’t trade 2 contracts, because I would want a 2 contract stop loss and a 2 contract profit exit bracket order, which would be 4. Guess i could always sell at market, but how annoying….
anyways I think it’s doable for myself, would have to pick a good time of the year to start the funded account, even so odds are against me staying above $0 after 2 weeks
I strongly disagreed with this post.
1.) the 10 days trading trial is gone, replace with combined continuous
2.) exchange fee clearly stated in their agreement
3.) Prep Agreement also clearly stated
4.) Selection of mentors is your own choice, you have to work hard in the end.
All of what I mention is on their website
Hi Jim,
I think we both might not be on the same page. You are correct in that the 10 day trial is gone. However, you are confused in that the 10 day funded trader portion of the program is still valid. In other words, once you pass the combine, you must then pass the funded trader prep, and then once you pass the funded trader prep…you are only given 10 days to build your account balance.
As far as the exchange fee’s being clearly stated, suppose that you trade Crude Oil, the mini Russell, and the mini SP500? I suggest that check this for yourself. I am not going to tell you, because I want you to do your own research on this topic.
There are plenty of things that readers are also curious about. But TopStep will not publish…what is the success rate? The burn rate? How long do traders typically last? These are very fundamental questions that should be part of the decision making process. You and I will have to disagree whether this is important. After I publish my statistics, you will have some hard data to hang your hat upon. The hard data is beyond opinion.
Conor from TST gave a webinar at BMT a few days ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GedxHEPgAdU
Around 53 mins he answered the survival rate question, but his answer included traders not being with TST anymore, so basically his 97% answer was meaningless. (supposedly this was based on a survey) The interviewer didn’t catch it, he should have asked for a clarification.
Obviously the questioner wanted to know how many % of the Live traders traded with TST after 1 year, but Conor nicely avoided it with a meaningless answer. Obviously they don’t need a survey if they want to know the answer, they just have to crunch the numbers.
Anyhow, Emmett you keep teasing us with your stats, when are you going to release the data?
About 160 responses thus far. Figure I would wait 30 days before publishing the results.
Olive Oil = Emily ?
May be they (TST) are using their Trainee Intern (Emily) for this purpose supporting online . Who knows …
Here is the bottom line for newbies who don’t know how to read their 150K funding offering:
1. You are essentially self funding yourself with the help of TST using a 10 days Live trading period, when you can trade max. 3 cars. During that they are actually backing you, but after that you are left with an account size equal to your trading profits. Thus most Live traders start to fly on their own with a 2-4K account or less and that is where they are supposed to scale up from.
2. After 6 glorious years, their biggest trader is trading a maximum of less than 30 ES contracts. If you do the math with day trading margins and such, that is a smaller than 20K account.
3. They have just eliminated their cheapest Combine, so the non-refundable try out price has just increased to $150 minimum.
Now knowing this, do you feel lucky punk today to sign up?
so its a scam. people are basically paying to train on a sim?
someone like me, with a $ 30,000 account would have no benefit at all joining them, would you say?
Robert,
It’s plain simple. If you trust your edge, you will get $4500 for 10 days to risk by paying $375 for the combine, and investing one month to complete the procedure. If this is the first attempt, you don’t need to pay that $375 either, as you can get that for $1. So, it’s better not to think in terms of the account sizes.
The real question is, can you take advantage of $4500 free cash in 10days or not?
Hi Bunny,
Thanks for the thoughtful comment. In your prior message, “can you take advantage of $4,500 in free cash in 10 days or not?”. I believe that if you look closer at the $150k combine rules, you will notice that the max loss for the corresponding combine is actually $3,000, and not $4,500. And during the 10 day funded trader period, the maximum is 3 contracts.
I am purposefully holding off my opinion, until I report the statistics, which is now over 100 sample size. This data will certainly be enlightening, and will present a very clear representation.
Folks are going to find it very interesting at how much is taken in, versus how much is withdrawn by funded traders. Good stuff. I wish I could publish now, but I want a larger sample size.
Emmett,
Good to know that you are working on the update and I am looking forward to read it. 🙂
Regarding my comment, $4500 is the maximum drawdown you are allowed in the first 10days. $3000 is the maximum loss per day. That’s what I meant when I said $4500.
And regarding the maximum position size, you are not restricted to only 3 contracts throughout the 10 days. You can use 5 once the account size goes above 1500, 7 when it goes above 3000 or something. I am not well aware of those numbers exactly as 5 is the maximum number of contracts I ever traded with TST.
haha. omg. jeez my visa credit line is 5 times that alone. why would anyone bother going through the rigmarole – and paying for it- to get access to a trifling amount of money. its a joke.
i thought there must be some validity in TST because big mikes forum has it listed as a vetted vendor.
usually he takes a bit of care but having them there makes me wonder about his judgement. i hope he pulls them
I am calling SCAM on TST
Robert,
$4500 is the risk capital here. Lets forget about TST for a while and think in normal terms. In general, 30% of the whole capital we deposit is what most of the professionals consider as the risk capital (At least as far as I know from the books I have read). People will take a timeout from their trading once that 30% is lost, practice their edge again and comes back to the live environment. Again, I am talking about those who have long term plans of survival in this business, not the ones who are desperate to get rich quick.
Lets move back to TST for a while and apply the same concept. Let us assume that you have a properly defined edge. TST is backing you with $4500 risk capital . Now you can assume that you are trading an account size of $15000, where the risk capital is 30% of it, which is $4500. Design money management and risk management rules as if you are trading a $15k account. IMO, $15k is a good start for any serious under-capitalized trader provided he got some skill.
Anyways, this is my second attempt to TST and Im gonna stop trying if I lose my funding account again. I just paid $1 after I lost my funded account and they didn’t force me to pay for anything.
ok thanks that makes more sense
Just to make sure others get it correctly, the $4.5K is a risk for TST, this is the amount they are willing to lose on you in your first Live 10 days (for 150K Combiners). But after 10 days YOUR risk capital is whatever you made during that 10 days, and that is actually your own money (up to the first 5K).
Now if you made 9K (profit target) during your 150K combine, using 15 cars, during the Live stage using only 3 cars, you are projected to make only 1.8K. So basicly you are starting out with this huge capital of less than 2K account, once TST is not backing you…
Good luck with that….
Robert
Looks like this thread is not for you. Unless you have taken a combine or thinking of taking a combine then your comments are worthless.
Bye
Olive
Just to be objective, I want to make 2 points:
1. Being a vendor is not really an endorsement itself. TST is a vendor on BMT and ET, but this fact itself doesn’t validate them as a legit business vendor. Actually, quite the opposite, after all the owners of such sites get money from them, so their interest is to keep that ad money coming, thus they might suppress valid criticism. Sometimes they do that, ET doesn’t, but again, just being a vendor itself doesn’t mean the business is kosher.
2. A business is usually more complicated than legit or scam, black or white. Sure, there are outright scams, but sometimes a business is just misrepresenting itself a bit, shall we say? Like the 150K Combine indicates that someone actually could be backed up with that much money, when in reality 15% of that is true. But that doesn’t mean they are completely a scam, they could have redeeming values for SOME traders, if not for MOST traders.
Personally I think TST is more on the dark grey side, but I can find some good usage for them, although mostly they are just a dream factory….
$1 for the first combine? Are you sure? I do not see that anywhere on their site. Is it a new promotion? (Maybe because Emmett has fallen off their praise-wagon, and so many read this site?)
Heck, for $1, we should all go take the combine just so we can have first-hand experience to report. After all, it is only 10 trading days. LOL.
I would especially want to feel just how the so-called FTP, second stage goes, and how much I REALLy get to trade.
I don’t know whether this is still valid or not.. But I believe that it works as I came to know that they are giving it for free in the first attempt.
https://ninjatrader.omnovia.com/register/28481458931649?utm_content=27760818&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook
Robert
If you have already a $30,000.00 account then no point joining TST. You have enough equity there to play with.
Maybe with just $150.00 out of your $30k take one combine and post your results here.
Olive
If you are already profitable on your own then yes, TST is not for you. If you are losing money, one could make an argument that losing $150-$350 to TST is way cheaper than losing a few thousands of your own money. But we should also calculate time lost, when people chasing an almost impossible dream, when they could be earning money doing something else.
The only people whom I could see TST as a valid opportunity is foreigners who can’t open a broker account on their own and their cost of living is very low. So let’s say a guy from Vietnam making 1.5K per month with TST as a funded trader could be a king in Vietnam. They might not even have capital gain taxes over there.
Speaking of taxes, if you are a profitable futures trader, TST’s tax treatment you as an independent contractor also screws you, since futures gains are taxed preferably….So beside losing 20% to TST you also lose to the taxman…
Pekelo,
You hinted to something I agree with 100%, but have never stated as I know I would get the hate mail.
“But we should also calculate time lost, when people chasing an almost impossible dream, when they could be earning money doing something else.”
The fact is the vast majority of the 95% want to be day traders, who have not been able to save a dime their whole life and are way underfunded and think they will take up day trading to pay bills by trading with 500 to 1 leverage would be 1000 times better off going back to college and getting a better paying job.
You are the 1st post I have read that even hinted at that and no trading room operator promising the jet style fantasy will ever tell them that.
Agree Rob B but I’d also add learn to write and follow a budget. Know exactly how much your make, exactly how much you spend and what you spend it on. Once you know that, trim the unnecessary expenses and save that money to put towards investments. Get your trading money together yourself and while you are doing that, sim trade so that you can learn. After reading a number of these posts it seems that we’re only talking about 5-15K.
Let’s be clear:
#1. TST is NOT an education business!
#2 . It’s core business is funding traders
Some of the TST combine and funded rules, IMO, smell like a scam.
But it’s their money, their rules.
They broadcast the people that have just passed a combine (without even seen a real cent to trade!), suggesting TST is involved in education, yet that isn’t their core business.
They NEVER mention anything about the people that are actually trading real money, which is supposedly their core business??
Wouldn’t you think, they would be interviewing their real traders, making a living on a TST account??
I’ve heard of “real” profitable traders passing the combine, yet not trading with TST now.
So if a business is not focusing/advertising on their core business.. what exactly is their business?
Emmett, didn’t you have access to funded traders to interview?
What happened to that 3rd world trader guy?
Emmett.
You ask for a larger sample of people in order to for put together your statistics of TST.
This thread has proven that the the biased people will be your sole sample spread.
I therefore suggest to you that bearing in mind this is aimed at TST funded/ non funded traders that you post this thread in the TST radio live room.
This way you will get a better picture of the bulk that respond. You can very easily log into the TST radio room and post your link. Otherwise you will not get a proper picture only the disgruntled complainers that have failed miserably in the combine.
Olive
Man, we must right brain left brain opposites. All the people here are just asking for transparency which you keep fighting against. And then jump to the conclusion everyone here is a disgruntled person that has failed miserably in the combine. Really!! I must say I do not get you. You have to be associated with TS, as there are so many complaints about TS and most traders I know who even like TS also mention things they do not like about the company, but not you. You are a walking endorsement with only the highest praise and you keep saying they do not need to be transparent. That is just not how an unbiased person responds IMO.
I am sure you will now call me a failed TS combine complainer. I have never taken a combo or have any interest in TS funding. But from talking to other traders that have, I for one would be very interested in knowing the real TS stats.
Olive Oil – if you don’t come clean about which staff member you are from TST, I will do it for you.
Let’s face it, it’s not exactly difficult to work out who you are. It is just a shame you feel you can’t be yourself and defend your company with grace.
White cheddar popcorn anyone?
Emmett,
I was wondering if you could extend this survey idea to other vendors/trading rooms too and in order to prevent misuse have verified members only participate in the survey.
something like reviews on investimonials which seems to have fake reviews/ratings & i don’t think there is any website which has reliable reviews/ratings.
Hello everyone,
I am one of the persons who tried the combine, got funded, made some money, and lost the live account due to very poor performance. Now completed another combine and ready to start my FTP this weekend.
I hadn’t made much in the live account though. It just covered the money that I have paid for the combines, and a little more than $1K extra. I am here to give my opinion.
It’s true that TST makes money by selling their combines. But as far as the live environment is concerned, I am so much satisfied with what they had provided and that is the reason why I’ve given it another try. Once the first 10 days got completed, what they are providing you is just leverage , nothing else as you cannot lose what’s there in your account. We all know that leverage is a double edged sword, if you are a seasoned trader with a good edge, you can make maximum use of it, or else you will end up losing the account. Can’t blame the TST for that as we are the only ones responsible for blowing up the account due to over leveraging. I personally feel that TST is definitely is not an option for a beginner or an intermediate trader except they are willing to lean trading the combines instead of their own money without dreaming about the funded account and all.
Now lets come back to the hot topic, why they are not willing to provide any stats?
In a business where only 5-10% succeed when a trader is trading his own account setting his own money and risk management rules, it is obvious that the success percent is less than that in the live account of TST as the rules are set by the TST which are very tight. So, why will they publish that much lower stats if doing so will effect the company’s income (I totally agree that TST makes some money from the combine selling) ? If you are confident as a trader and can make money day trading, how stupid it is to leave the opportunity just because the company is making money from other streams? I am not backing TST here. I just like the way the business model is designed to save the company’s ass everytime. I just paid for 3 combines, I got funded in the 3rd attempt, lost it. Then they gave me a combine for $1 which I’ve recently completed.
Regarding that comment on only 10 day evaluation, It’s actually 20days as FTP is mandatory now. So many rules got changed and it is much easier than before to survive in the live account of TST. I didn’t come across anyone till now who completed the combine in the first attempt itself as the combine is tougher than it appears. So they are sure that the combine is good enough to filter the best traders.
I also agree with the statement, a stream of 10day drawdown is so common like one of our friends mentioned here. But if you lack the ability to anticipate that drawdown and stay away from the market after two or three losing days even when you know that your edge is not working in the present market conditions, seriously TST, or anyother prop firm in my opinion is not for you. TST is not forcing you to keep on trading even when you are suffering the drawdowns. They just need you to trade 10days in two months. These firms are established to make money in the short term from the employees unlike big firms, so they want the short term results. If you can’t give them, they will take back the money. As simple as that.
These are just my opinions. If this offended anyone here, I am sorry.
Thanks,
Stray Dog. It was just a suggestion to see what his experience would be like.
Furthermore this thread is not only for the survey but also for any input from the complainers or the supporters to discuss and debate the TST concept else there would be no comment box to join in the discussion.
I have duly completed the survey and responded to comments on this page.
Olive
Olive Oil,
You picked an appropriate name as you are as slippery as they come. I read your posts and you asking why does it make a difference how many funded traders are still funded and worst comparing it to a bakery and wonder, why are you afraid of the truth being known.
I have heard many traders say TS is a fee making scam and they have set up a system that virtually everyone will fail at in order to generate more fees. So yes I think it is important to know how many funded traders lose their funding after a short period of time. In fact I would like to see all the stats.
Let the truth be know!! You kind of remind me of Col. Jessup, “You can not handle the truth” I Want the Truth and Transparency and anyone that wants to cover it up IMO has hidden motives, so what is your real motive?
Your comments regarding my name are immature and fruitless.
The topic here is TST. Have you taken a combine?
TST are not a scam they are a reputable company with over 5 years in the industry.
You say you have heard many traders say TST is a fee making scam. That is hearsay and cannot be substantiated.
Do I need to have a motive?
The funded traders lose their funding because they are no longer making the firm money so they basically lose their job simple as that.
Tip: Col Jessup was a character.
Olive
Fictional character.
Olive
This whole discussion on both TST and MES is missing one important ingredient. The newbie traders who think they can trade without any former experience.
There’s a post on the MES review from a guy who wants to take the MES trial but doesn’t understand how he can trade CL on a $15,000 account, obviously not understanding margin and leverage.
Doctors, lawyers, educators, writers spend years perfecting their craft, yet almost everyone thinks they can make a career/fortune trading futures with little or no experience. They all need to step back and think about that. The professionals are just waiting like sharks for those guys to step in the water.
At least MES doesn’t charge anything so there’s nothing really to lose but please don’t whine and cry when you blow out after a week or two or criticize the company for your experience or lack thereof.
rtchoke
You will also be surprised how many funded traders ask which contract they should be trading. Clueless.
Olive
Olive Oil,
I ask this of anyone criticizing or praising any company that Emmett posts a review. Have you taken the TST combine? Did you pass? Were you funded? Are you still funded? You speak highly of TST so please post “your” experience with them.
Rtchoke
Yes I came across TST a few months ago . I took a combine and passed. I advance to funded trader preparation but I broke the 45% rule. All my fault. The rules have changed now. I have started another combine and presently working through it. I also trade my own account as well.
Olive
Olive,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I would hope that those complaining or promoting TST or MES would share their personal experience rather than just a comment on whether it’s a good deal or not with no first hand experience having taken the trial. Thanks for your honesty.
Olive Oil,
When you post a factious name then it is free for criticism. If that is your real name then I do apologize.
You keep making arguments that basically say people looking at TS should just go in with blind faith and not ask for any information at all. I do not see how someone would take such a position unless they have some tie to the company.
Explain why someone should not be aware of the truth of TS stats? If it is not a scam, what are you afraid of?
I want the truth to be known, yet you keep fighting against it. Very Odd.
Your statement, “The funded traders lose their funding because they are no longer making the firm money so they basically lose their job simple as that” is very simple and not the point at all.
If TS is setting up rules designed to sucker in underfunded traders and just keeps dangling a carrot in front of them with one bogus fee after another then that needs to be known.
You keep saying it is a legit business, then why so afraid for people to know the stats and the failure rates.
Being you gave apple and oranges comparisons to a bakery, I will do the same. It is like a life insurance policy people keep paying into and then you die and the insurance company never pays out. And you are saying, that is no ones business. You do not need to know the stats on that life insurance company.
Seriously who would take such a position except a shill or someone drinking the Kool-Aide. Does the Kool-Aide at least taste good?
I say investors need to demand TS show the real stats. If you are right then not only is no harm done to TS, but I think there business will boom when people see the transparency. Of course if I am right and this is nothing but a fee generating scam, then that would explain a lot.
Rob B
If you see my previous post I say people should not consider doing a combine until they have a proven strategy that works consistently and has done for over a year.
Once they are confident then that is the time to make the next step to the combine.
TST website has all the information regarding the combine funded trader prep and funded. If a person cannot grasp that information then there is a support line to answer and queries.
There is no bogus fee after another. One simple fee for the combine.
What is your point regarding Life Insurance. All life insurance policies pay out unless you have failed to disclose information at the time of taking out the policy.
Tip: Investors are not people who pay for a combine.
Olive
I agree….who is this OLIVE OIL? Sounds like a complete SHILL, what a joke equating asking a local bakery if they are profitable to this topic of the trading industry in terms of transparency. I’m afraid this OLIVE OIL has gone RANCID!
Emmett, you should update/rewrite your original TST review and downgrade the rating, specially if 2-3K people read it monthly. I am not sure this new survey can be trusted, online surveys are easy to manipulate. And why did it take so long to write this update?
How was the pizza, by the way?
Hi Pekelo,
Sometimes its easy to get a skewed result. For instance, I get a lot of emails regarding TopStep, but these are people that are really pissed off. People that thought that a new career was close at hand. Since I mainly hear from upset people, its easy to walk away with the conclusion that TopStep really sucks.
The survey is a much better option. A larger sample and I can put together real statistics that the company will not publish. Currently at 58 responses. Hopefully I get to 100 and can write something useful.
Thanks for reading and offering your opinion.
Hi Emmett
The complainers you are hearing from are probably from the novice traders who have probably thought they had found a gravy train.
Trading is not easy.
It is so easy to trade on a simulator in the combine and in the funded preparation. The trader has no emotion whatsoever. The money is not real. It does not matter to them if they lose a trade it is only in simulation. As soon as they pass this simulated experience and become funded and that trade button goes live that is where most traders fail. Fear sets in or overconfidence.
At TST in the funded account they give you 10 trading days to make profit and stay above zero. The 10 days are not consecutive they do not have to trade every single day. But they are desperate to get to that status, desperate to get that first $5k commission free in their bank. They make mistakes and blame TST that the rules are hard.
If a funded trader is struggling during that phase then TST run a redevelopment period allowing them to pause the live account and go back to a simulator for a period of time. Once they feel confident and ready again then they go back to the funded account.
10 days is ample time for an experienced real skilled trader to build a cushion of money. That is what TST want. They do not chase you to take a combine they give you the opportunity to show them that you are capable of trading. If a trader cannot stay in profit during that period then trading is not for them. If you are in employment with any Company then you are expected to perform in your line of work for the wage paid. TST are no different.
Emmett they say the proof is in the pudding so why not take a combine yourself.
Olive
“Emmett they say the proof is in the pudding so why not take a combine yourself.” … Huh? How is this relevant to Emmett asking for people who have dealt with TST to complete the survey so that he can give updated information about TST? This is starting to feel like MES all over again.
For those who don’t realize it, TST only backs you for 10 days. After that you are backing yourself with the cushion you have built during that 10 days. Now you are saying that is plenty, I beg to differ. Just pick a random 10 days period of your trading and see how much the results vary. And that is supposed to be your backing fund for the future.
Not to mention if you passed the lesser Combines, you only have 1 or 2 cars to build that cushion, and just how big profit can you make with 1 contract in 10 days?
So for newbies reading this, they should realize that the TST start out account specially for the 30-50K combines is equivalent to a 2K trading account. ($500 margin plus 1.5K allowed loss).
Now most people agree that traders starting out with small account (anything under 5-10K) are pretty much doomed to fail. And what does TST do? They let you start out with a small account…
Pekelo
If you went for a job on Wall Street and failed to make money in 10 days then I am sure you would be shown the front door.
10 days is adequate to prove yourself as a trader not only to the firm but to yourself.
If you cannot make profit in that 10 days then you are in the wrong business or your strategy is no longer working and more time should be spent learning your trade.
1 contract in 10 days!!!
That is not a rule. You could trade 1 contract 100 times a day if you wanted so your comment is unwarranted.
Olive
I gotta tell you guys… I read through this whole thread and Olive Oil is making a lot of sense. TST has absolutely NO obligation whatsoever at all to publish successes to failures. They need only publish exactly what YOU need to know to decide if you feel like YOU have what it takes to try it. That is all. No one is making you try anything! As everyone on thread knows, trading is really hard and has a HUGE failure rate. I am pretty sure TST is in the business to make money like every other business on the planet. As everyone also knows, complainers scream the loudest by far and there are far too many people in this business that have no idea what they are doing and don’t take responsibility for their own failures…
Sure they don’t have to publish anything, specially PR numbers like random profitable days from random traders. But they do that. If I only told you my profitable days, you would call me a cheat, and rightfully so.
They also publish the people passing the Combine, but really, who cares about that? I want to know how many people actually made at least 10K, that would be the real PR, except that number is so small they don’t dare to publish it.
10 days can be a crapshot, that’s why they ask you to do the LTP. If you would back someone based on only 10 days of proof, well, then you are a gambler. I used to like them better when it was a month…
But anyway, you mentioned that TST is a reputable firm. Just what exactly this reputation is based on? They survived 5 years, we have to give them that, but that doesn’t mean the firm itself is good for traders. Now if we had dozens of traders testifying that they have been with TST for months or even years and making a living, that would be a nice reputation to have.
Unfortunately, I haven’t seen those traders. But good luck with your current try out, let us know when you get the first paycheck…
How will knowing how many traders profited 10K assist you with your trading.
How will knowing how many traders are still funded assist you with your trading.
How will knowing how many people passed the combine assist you with your trading.
The answer is ..it won’t
You are the individual who must perform his/her skills as a trader to pass the combine to then go onto the funded trader preparation.
The statistics have no bearing whatsoever with your performance as a trader who wants to enter into the realm of trading. TST offer you this opportunity. Period.
10 days is not crap shot. Ample time to prove yourself as a fully fledged trader.
It was never a month always been 10 days within a given period to prove yourself worthy of becoming a funded trader.
The firm itself is only good for good traders. Good traders will make it. Bad traders will fail.
What is really funny is that this feed has been live since 22d April and we have not heard anything from those disgruntled traders.
Here is the free platform to anonymously spout your concerns and excercise your complaints and as yet there has only been a handful of comments out of the hundreds of complaint Emmett has received.
Olive
Olive Oil,
I feel like I am talking to a wall. Your statement such as, “How will knowing how many traders profited 10K assist you with your trading” is not the issue. The issue is whether or not TS is nothing but a fee making scam designed to sucker underfunded and sometimes desperate people out of their money.
I understand your Caveat Emptor stance. I am a real estate investor and that is how it use to be in real estate until the lawsuits began and now it is you better disclose.
You are right TS does not have to provide any stats to anyone or inform anyone that they are scamming people, which is why I say if all they are giving Emmett is cherry picked results then stay away and demand they show their real stats or more than likely you too will be another victor emailing Emmett.
I think TS is nothing but a fee generating scam designed for virtually everyone to fail.
I am just curious Olive Oil, if you think taking advantage of desperate people is a legit and wonderful business did you think Emmett during his master crime days was an outstanding citizen? Do you keep a poster of your hero Bernie Madoff over your bed?
And one other point, seriously 10 days to judge ones trading performance. Give me a break. By that definition I would be the worst trader on the planet as I certainly have draw down periods that last a heck of a lot longer than 10 days. And for my longer term trades, they virtually almost all start in the red.
When I read comments like that, I am like no wonder 95% of traders fail. That type of thinking is just insane. The greatest traders in history have draw downs, that is how the real market works.
Rob B’s point is making a valid point. If you want to make a judgement about whether TST are actually in the business of funding traders or whether they are in the business of collecting fees for a combine and making it difficult enough that traders have to cycle through the process multiple times then you need to know the success rate of people who try. No that information won’t affect you personally but it does give you information about your chances of being successful.
Rob B
My response was to Pekelo above. But I will answer you accordingly.
There is not such term as an underfunded trader. They either trade their own account or go and work for a prop firm.
TST give the opportunity to TALENTED traders to trade their money. Firstly they need to know how talented and committed they are.
They offer the trader a choice of monthly continuous combines . A monthly continuous combine is roughly 20 trading days.
The smallest account works out at £4.75 a day. The largest account works out at £18.75 a day.
There are no exchange fees to pay and you are offered a platform to trade off free.
In the 20 trading days you have to accumulate a set amount of profit and trade at least 10 days in that period. You either make the profit target or you don’t.
If you don’t then you can continue to pay the monthly subscription until you make the profit target. How can that be a scam? You are not cajoled into anything. The choice is your to continue or walk away.
I am not interested in anyones result only my own. If TST showed terrible results it would not bother me whatsoever. My aim is to show my talents as a trader and progress through the stages to become a funded trader.
Emmett’s past has nothing to do with this thread. He did a crime and was dealt with accordingly.
10 days is ample time. With respect if your drawdowns are in excess of 10 days then it sounds like you fall into the 95% of traders that do not make it.
Long term trading holding stocks and share will always start in the red. TST is purely day trading.
I agree the greatest traders in the world can have huge drawdowns at time. But what you are forgetting is that they have already accumulated millions and have been trading well over 10 days and have substantial funds to cover their draw downs.
Olive
Olive,
You sound and write more like a slick TS salesman than a trader. Are you the president of TS?
I look at TS rules such as a max draw down of $1500 and it screams scam. And based on your comments I seriously doubt you even trade.
If another company lets call it BS instead of TS, says it is funding traders but sets up rules they know everyone will fail at and just keeps scamming people out of fees on top of fees, apparently you are fine with that.
I guess I should add, what is obvious to me, you can be a profitable trader and not be able to meet these rules. I can assure you most real traders have bigger than $1500 draw downs. That is just insane. I am not sure why anyone would stay with TS with these rules. I think the whole scam is to prey on underfunded traders who are desperate to get funding without thinking through the rules.
But we will have to agree to disagree which is the purpose of this thread.
I expect when Emmett gathers the information he is requesting it will come close to proving my point. We shall see.
You are also wrong on that TST gives you money. They only do it for the first 10 days of Live trading, when you establish your cushion. After that 10 days you are effectively trading your own money, and since you only had a max. of 3 cars and 10 days to make that cushion, that is most likely a very small account.
You are better off opening your own 3-5K account, because that is what basicly TST gives you…
A 5k account does not allow you to even trade 1 GC contract http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/precious/gold_performance_bonds.html#sortField=exchange&sortAsc=true&clearingCode=GC§or=METALS&exchange=CMX&pageNumber=1
Also with a 5 K account with a standard risk management per trade of max 2% drawdown you can’t have a stop wider than 100$ on first trade.
You are right, knowing some stats won’t affect my own trading. So why TST is touting the numbers of Combine passers? That is one meaningless number but they use it as a recruiting tool. Now if they want really good PR they should be telling us how many Live traders actually make a living. How about that?
It used to be a month with a minimum of 10 days, the point is that the more data you get from a trader, the more reliable the result and future projection is. Anyone can have a good or bad 2 weeks. If TST agreed with you on the 10 days only they wouldn’t make the traders do the FTP.
But hey, if you think TST is a good deal, I hope you signed up with them and you are making a killing…
Olive Oil.
As a long time Wall Street vet, I can tell you that you couldn’t be more wrong. You will go through an initial interview process and some months of trading training. I was then put in a bullpen to trade, this is where the rubber hits the road. When I succeeded with the bullpen phase, I was shipped off to a REAL prop house where I stayed several years.
Once on the floor, I was gopher #1; in charge of picking up paper clips and babysitting existing positions while senior traders went to lunch. I wasn’t really given any discretion about potential trades, just when to exit.
I gradually moved up the ladder. These goofy “pay to trade” prop houses are not prop houses at all. They are sophisticated marketing schemes. A real prop house knows a new trader has to learn the ropes and some mistakes are expected. Basically, they want to see rapid improvement over a couple of months. I can’t imagine why anyone would patronize these TST goof balls. In my mind, two better options (once you can consistently trade profitably) are:
1. Fund yourself or find a family member to help you out.
2. Get your best suit or outfit on and start approaching real proprietary firms and ask what it would take to get hired at their firm. Out of 100 firms you may get someones interest or they may point you in the right direction for work as a gopher and then it’s your job to prove your worth. It seems to me ambitious people eventually do well.
Holy Cow, I almost sound like Rob B. in this post. In reality he hit the nail on the head in his analysis of these firms.
David Adams
The floor/pits do not exist for many commodities anymore. Electronic trading has taken over the pits.
Wall Street want to employ electronic traders these days.
As it ever crossed your mind that a lot of those prop firms may actually use TST as part of their interview process. In other words they send the individual trader over to TST to complete a combine as part of the interview /vetting process.
These funded traders may then go on to work for that particular prop firm. I will leave that one with you to consider.
Why fund yourself when TST are prepared to fund you subject to meeting certain criteria ie Combine. I certainly would not fund any of my family members unless they had proved to me by passing a combine that they are capable.
Why bother getting dressed when you can trade in your own home in comfort infront of a screen.
Olive
Really? There are no more pits? Geez, that must be why I am retired now and trade at home in the comfort of my pajamas. On the other hand, I cannot imagine the hysterics if you walked into Broad Street Trading or Capstone and proudly announcing you have passed the TST combine and traded for a bit and feel you are ready for a job at at their firm. So no, it has never occurred to me that they may use TST to train novice professional traders.
Second, why in the world would I want to share a payout with some guys who, from my perspective, use trading technology that is dated and ineffective. I have written extensively about this problem and those articles should be easily located on the web.
Seems to me that you have a hidden agenda here and either lack extensive trading experience or are specifically promoting a lousy trading opportunity.
“use trading technology that is dated and ineffective” … can you elaborate on this please? I´m interested on the subject,
Tks
I can not believe me and Dave are in agreement. I guess anything is possible. LOL.
Seriously Olive you have gone from ridiculous to out and out insane. No unaffiliated person would make the statements you are making.
I guess you think you pass a combine then walk into GS and demand a trading job. What a joke. They would laugh you out of the office.
Why self fund you ask. Because TS rules and fees are so ridiculous they make no sense what so ever. $1500 draw down and you are out. I would ask with that rule why would you not fund yourself or get a family to do it and not share with TS.
The more you write and defend TS the more I think it is a scam. You are such a defender of TS you must be a long term funded TS trader. How about showing Emmett some evidence of how that is working for you. I have a feeling you will not be able to show anything.
Hi Rob, I’m not sure of what TST’s rules were in the past, but as far as the trailing max drawdown is concerned, it’s only in effect for 10 days for funded traders. From their site:
Funded Trader Rules
Trade the Funded Trader Preparation product(s) you were profitable in during permitted times
Do not hit or exceed the Daily and/or Weekly Loss Limit*
Do not allow your Account Balance to hit or exceed the Trailing Max Drawdown*
Follow the Scaling Plan
Do not hold positions into major economic releases
Maintain an Account Balance greater than $0 after a minimum of 10 trading days
*The Weekly Loss Limit (if applicable) and Trailing Max Drawdown are eliminated after 10 trading days.
Hope this clears up any misunderstanding.
Chris
Chris,
Please, correct me if I am wrong, but when I read:
“Maintain an Account Balance greater than $0 after a minimum of 10 trading days”
I interpret that to mean after 10 days, you are trading your own money. In other words after 10 days TS will not even risk the $1500. They risk absolutely nothing; zero, nada!! TS is risking the money the trader earned. All the risk is on the trader and for that great reward the trader gets to share their profits with TS. Why in the hell would anyone stay with TS after the 10 days if they are profitable? And if it makes no sense for a profitable trader to stay with TS then how else can TS be making money except from all those bogus fees. The whole thing makes no sense to me and screams scam. Maybe I am a missing something; if so please explain it to me.
Give me an example where this is a win for the trader except if the trader does not have a dime to their name and leaves after they earn some money. But my guess is if they did not have a dime to their name they will have less than that after paying TS fees.
Hey Rob, Unless I’m mistaken, the “Maintain an Account Balance greater than $0 after a minimum of 10 trading days” simply means that after a being funded AND trading a minimum of 10 days, your account must be above $0. If so, then the Trailing Max Drawdown and Weekly Loss Limit rules are waived.
So, if after the 10 days of trading, you’ve only netted $5, those rules are still waived. You wouldn’t be trading your own money just yet, but you would still be qualified to continue trading.
As far as other TS fees, I’m not sure if those are your responsibility or not. During the combine, everything is factored into your daily P/L. If you’re funded I would imagine that you’re gonna pay the commission ($1.84/side) but as far as data feed, I’m not certain.
Chris
“So, if after the 10 days of trading, you’ve only netted $5, those rules are still waived. You wouldn’t be trading your own money just yet, but you would still be qualified to continue trading.”
So you would have exactly $5 to lose and your balance would be zero. ,,, Kicked back to the combine for another fee!
Osikani,
That is the way I read it. Bad Deal to Me! As I said after 10 days you are risking your own earned money not TS money. Anyone actual TS Combine users input appreciated.
Osikani,
By the end of the 10th day if don’t have enough money to risk, there is something called redevelopment combine, where you would be asked to trade 10days and make around 50% of the combine target. Once you complete that, you will get a fresh live account. You don’t need to pay anything for these redevelopment combines.
If you fail to complete the redev, you will be given a normal combine for $1. They are not forcing any fee IMO.
I lost the funded account on the 19th day and I was given a $1 combine, which I have completed now.
Hope this clears few things.
Bunny, are you sure about the $1??
I blew my funded account a couple of weeks ago.
I remember reading that when you fail, it’s 1 free combine for you but cannot find it anywhere anymore.
I was told they don’t offer $1 Combines when you blow the Funded account.
So, it looks like the Redevelopment Combine replaces the free Combine.
A few have attempted multiple use of the $1 combine code, using different names, but they usually get caught and wasted their time.
Not sure if you have made only $5 after 10 days you are allowed to risk only that. Anyways, anybody that is funded and makes 5k + eventually would open his own account I would think.
Being with TST is more or less self-funding after you have earned the first few $ as you can not draw down more than below the trailing drawdown, so you basically risk money you earned in the account after the initial small gains – TST only actually fund you with a very small amount, which any talented trader wouldn’t pay a percentage of their earnings to get – the only scenario I can see is someone having 0 $ and want to trade, and they should, as soon as the trailing drawdown passed starting balance, leave TST and trade their own account.
Excellent explanation, better than mine. That whole $1500 draw down which is a Trailing draw down just reeks of scam. You start with 30K move up to 40K then lose 1500 and you are out.
How can anyone defend this crap.
Emmett, I really wish this site had an edit feature as I forgot to mention something to Olive Oil.
Who would trade futures with 1500$ draw down max, but that’s basically what they require
show me a trader who never had a 1500 $ drawdown trading futures?
I never met anyone who didn’t experience that
never
not even after they are profitable
Emmett.
You ask for a larger sample of people in order to for put together your statistics of TST.
This thread has proven that the the biased people will be your sole sample spread.
I therefore suggest to you that bearing in mind this is aimed at TST funded/ non funded traders that you post this thread in the TST radio live room.
This way you will get a better picture of the bulk that respond. You can very easily log into the TST radio room and post your link. Otherwise you will not get a proper picture only the disgruntled complainers that have failed miserably in the combine.
Olive
Who’s complaining? People are asking for information about how many people have been successful at passing the TST combine. This is something that you appose on the grounds that it doesn’t affect an individual’s decision to participate in the TST program nor does it affect an individual’s performance. OK point taken but how does providing it give a distorted picture of TST? It doesn’t. It provides transparency.
From Emmett’s review “Almost immediately after publishing the review of TopStep Trader, I began to receive a steady stream of complaints. The complaints were usually the following:
Its a hamster wheel”
It doesn’t sound like the people complaining are just RobB and Stray. As for me, I remember when they were new on the scene on BMT, but I never did it as their limitations doesn’t fit my trading style and plan so I can’t fill out the survey myself.
“Olive Oil” – have you stated to the board you are affiliated with TST? Isn’t it better to be transparent when defending your company?
This is Canola Oil, I am Olive’s cousin. I can confirm he works with me at TST. Business is down so we are getting desperate.
Robert.
Why are you so interested in in how many funded traders are still funded. It is non of your business. Would you go into a bakers and ask him how much profit he had made today? Concentrate on yourself and your trading.
Rob B.
Like I said to Robert above. It is none of your business how many traders are still funded. Of course TST make money off combine fees they are a business and they give you a service back to show your talents as a trader. What has Brokers and Ninja got to do with TST? TST offer educators for the community. They do not force you to join. Mute the sound button when they are on. Who are the trading room operators promising fantasy returns. TST have 4 very simple rules to follow.
1. Trade a minimum of 10 days
2. Do Not hit or exceed the Daily Loss Limit of X
3. Account Balance will not hit or fall below maximum trail down
4. Only trade permitted products, during the permitted times
Tick all these then you move onto the funded trader preparation where you repeat these steps for a lower profit target.
If you fail then you go back to buy a combine and repeat. Simple. Tip: TST is not a trading room. But you can learn a lot from the traders in there.
.” Why are you so interested in in how many funded traders are still funded. It is non of your business. Would you go into a bakers and ask him how much profit he had made today”
Well that analogy is a rather bad one. If we bring in the baker the analogy could be to ask “how many of his customers enjoyed the bread and come back to the shop every days for years, and how many got sick from it and ultimately gave up eating bread”.
As a long time futures trade I can look immediately at the rules for TST and see that they have been set so that it would be almost impossible for any real trader to keep them for long periods.
Futures trading inherently has days where significant sums are lost, and so, making a not so wild guess, I would say TST has calculated the rules to ensure that less than 1% of those who pass a combine would still be able to meet the live account rules for more than a couple of months. And would thus be back looking to pass another combine.
However I am not totally against the TST way, as at least the price of the combine is very low and so it does give newbs a chance to learn a little without losing masses of money.
robert ‘As a long term futures trade’!!!! do you mean ‘ As a long time futures trader’ ?? If so then with respect why on earth are you interested in the TST program?
Surely as a long term trader you have a cushion of money to rely on and if you have a bad day then so be it. If you continue having bad days then your strategy is no longer working. You would then have to then go and improve your performance in these fast changing markets.
TST protect you from those significant sums of losses by having the daily drawdown rule.
If a trader trades for a couple of months then I would imagine he has a cushion to fall back on. So why would he need to go back to to combine.
I agree with your penultimate paragraph
Olive
Thanks for clarification of this Emmett.
TST is very open about how many traders ate passing the combine. What they wont reveal is hom many of the newly funded traders are still making money 6 months or a year down the road.
My guess is that there is a reason TS does not realize the stats. If they did no one would pay for their combines. If I were to bet I would say they make their money off fees and not from their share of the profitable traders. Call me a conspiracy nut, but I think the whole thing is one big well oiled machine from the Brokers, to Ninja Trader and their scam education partners, to the Trading Room Operators promising fantasy returns with no draw downs with no proof to TS promising funding. One day someone will write an article about this whole scam industry.
Hope Emmett is able to eventually provide real stats about this company.
Like I said to Robert above. It is none of your business how many traders are still funded and making money. Of course they make money off fees they are a business and at the same time give you the oportunity to show them how good you can trade. What have the brokers and Ninja got to do with TST? Nothing. They provide educators on TST but do not force you to join them or even listen to them. Turn on your mute button when they are on. Which trading room operator promises fantasy returns? The only way you can learn to trade is by yourself and ample screen time. Do not enter a combine unless you have a proven strategy that works consistently over at least a year.
TST have 4 simple rules
1. Trade minimum of 10 days.
2. Do not hit or exceed the Daily Loss Limit of X
3. Account Balance not to fall below the Trailing Maximum Drawdown
4. Only trade permitted products during permitted times.
Tick all these then you go to the funded preparation where the same 4 rules apply.
If you do not meet the criteria then pay for another combine and repeat the process.
Tip: TST is not a trading room.
Hi Rob B
I concure about TST but
I think it’s a bit unfair to drag ninjatrader into issues with the people who use their platform. Their ecosystem site(includes all the vendors with addon etc ) even has a popup for every single one warning that the vendor is not part of Ninjatrader. I just dont see why people think becuase someone codes an indicator for ninjatrder or advertises using NT as their liveroom trading platform that tNT must be part of the con.
There are useful sites in the ecosysteme and there are terrible ones, but it is not ninjatraders province or expertise to differentiate: that is up to sites like futures.io, elitetrader and tradingschools..
Now if we talk about Ninjatrader as a company – they give extremely good service – and their platform is well priced. I was with tradestation for years: NT is incomparable.
robert. We are here to discuss TST not Ninjatrader
My only problem with Ninja Trader is promoting trading educators without doing any verification on those educators. People think well Ninja is promoting them with webinars, they must be legit, when some as you have read here are the biggest scum bags around. How about Ninja actually doing some research on these trading rooms. I have no issue with someone writing code for NT. Heck I do it all the time, though I do not sell it.
I guess I disagree with you. I think if you are actively promoting webinars of trading educators you should do some research. Your reputation is also on the line. Or at least make a statement like Emmett does on his Google Ads.
Ninja and the others just leads to the spiral of each feeding each other.
Guys if you want to talk about Ninjtrader then here is a link http://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/ Stay on topic about TST
NinjaTrader as a platform is great- However the training ecosystem is all crap. Now that they have become a broker the training eco system I view as a way for Ninja to turbo boost their income while draining your wallet.
You get new traders who waste $$ for their scam courses- They then purchase the Ninja software license and they will likely blow their account – Ninja makes $$ on the front end AND the back end.
In addition when someone gives up that will be another customer Ninja will no longer have to support lowering their support costs.
( License is non-transferable remember).
I use Ninja and respect the platform- But I have lost all respect for Ninja and their business practices as a broker.
I agree completely. In my opinion, they sold their soul through the aggressive marketing of the Ecosystem. They know that the Ecosystem is a scum filled swamp.
And they sure burned a few brokers by closing the loop. That was dirty. Really dirty. Made a lot of enemies.
Yes, this is the other issue I have with NT. When I bought them I thought they would be like Sierra Chart and be working to make the best platform possible to interface with various brokers. But instead they are now focusing on the platform to support their own broker and not IMO working on creating the best platform.
I would agree NT is a decent platform with good charting. However, there has not been any serious improvement in the features. There is little to no support on coding strategies for multi-time frames so a trade can exit intra-bar efficiently. Some code is hidden that only some select vendors seem to know. It’s annoying to have to see out third party vendors for indicators and features other platforms already have such as fooprint, level2, volume/market profiles, and volume depth in the dom. It’s like most of the updates are geared toward compatibility fixes for the ecosystem indicators and brokers. I don’t have a problem with NT becoming a broker. Maybe they want to get bigger like TDA. But I agree their outside-platform business practices is questionable and the ecosystem cesspool is dreadfully promotes hundreds of scam vendors.
Ninja Trader at least version 7 is a consumer trading platform.
It is no way any place near Tradestation, Sierra or MultiCharts.
It has many flaws which became available when you start to trade professionally : unable to load many charts, no milliseconds time stamp on data, awful drawing UI for indicator builders, market replay data downloaded from a server with time stamp away from what was real market data, no possibility for testing or running automated strategies without advanced skilled programming programming (you have to buy Bloodhound for this).
So both NT and TST are a same kind of products aiming consumers which will never reach the professional statute if not able to surpass this level.
Hi Robert,
I know this is off topic, but I was curious your opinion of Ninja vs Tradestation.
Emmett
Hello Emmett, allow me to chime in here with an answer to your question. As someone who uses both platforms and has, since they were created. Trade Station is the closest you will come to an institutional platform. While the core of TS is seen as as older tech (easy language) the fact is the data you get is unparalleled by any other retail platform. If you trade enough your platform fees are negligible short of leasing a seat on the exchange. Ninja trader has grown faster than any other platform I’ve seen in years, I’m sure TS noticed and took a hit to some degree. C# is supposed to be the next new thing, but Ninja is limited in many ways as far as historical data, automated strategy testing (light years behind what TS is capable of) and lastly the look and feel of the charts is for some odd reason not as clean as TS. As far as execution goes TS clears through RJO which is tried and true and has good execution. I prefer Infinity AT over either platform but that’s another discussion. Ninja merged with the best available company, Mirus was always considered excellent with data, support and execution while being slightly expensive. I didn’t even touch on TOS (Dough)which has the best option platform and only recently has TS upped their option game, but not at the same level as far as options go. If there are specifics you’d like me to address feel free to reply or ask me on Twitter H2oBoyBoucher
Why are you bothered about how many newly funded traders are still making money 6 months down the line. It is none of your business. Would you walk into a local bakery and ask him how much profit he made today? Concentrate on yourself and your own trading.