Pristine Trading

Pristine Trading
  • Honesty
    (2)
  • Quality
    (1.5)
  • Cost
    (1.5)
  • Support
    (3)
  • Verified Trades
    (1)
  • User Experience
    (2)
1.8

Summary

A stocks day trading room that is moderated by nice folks, but not much of a track record. They claim to make about $14,000 per month, but can provide no proof of fantastic returns. No record of trades called within the live trading room, I asked but none were provided. Trading room needs to improve by being more transparent and providing an accurate record of trades. Until then, you should avoid.

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User Review
2.36 (25 votes)
Comments Rating 0 (0 reviews)
Pros: Nice friendly folks. Amber Capra is a very nice customer support rep.
Cons: Trading room lacks transparency. No records of trades called inside of the live trading room are kept. Claiming average $14,000 monthly profits but can provide no proof of these fantastic returns. No trading DOM present. No trading from the charts. No account statements.

Thanks for reading today’s review of Pristine Trading

What is Pristine Trading? Pristine Trading is what I would consider one of the “legacy” trading educators. The site was founded way back in 1996 by Greg Capra and Oliver Velez, both are long time educators and salesman of various trading products. I wont go into too much detail regarding both of these men, however I can tell you that Oliver Velez is definitely someone to avoid at all costs. He has a long history of running various fraudulent trading activities, including a prop day trading firm named Element Trading. What was Element Trading? Element Trading pooled small traders together into an omnibus trading account which allowed small traders to avoid the $25k day trading rule. It worked for a short period of time, until Oliver Velez closed up shop and disappeared with the trading deposits of everyone that had contributed funds into the omnibus account. This happened back in 2012, and it was quite ugly. At about that time, Oliver Velez, with all of his fraudulent baggage broke away from Pristine Trading and started a new company named IfundTrader.com. A review of Ifundtraders will be published shortly, however lets just stay focused on Pristine.com.

Is it fair for me to mention Oliver Velez with Greg Capra? Some might say that since Oliver Velez left the firm in 2012, then everything since his departure should be considered fresh and new. However, I believe that it is important to at least include a broader history of Pristine.com so that we can bring some contrast and comparison to the new Pristine.com.

What exactly is Pristine.com offering? In a nutshell, Pristine is selling an educational package for $9,000. A quick review of the website claims that the $9,000 trading educational package is everything that a person will need to become a professional full time trader. And they also promise to continue to work with a trader until they reach their goals of becoming a successful trader. In addition to the $9,000 trading educational package, Pristine also offers a live day trading room titled “The Black Room”. This room comes at a cost of $197 a month.

The “Black Room” is considered to be the marquee trading experience, where Pristine’s very best traders display live daily stocks trading. This live daily trading experience is supposed to include entries, exits, profits, etc…and be fully trackable by the subscriber. If the $9,000 trading educational experience has any value, then we should be able to fully witness this value within the “Black” trading room. When I think of the word “Black Trading Room”, this elicits feelings of exclusivity. Like a black american express card, or a really exclusive night club, or a private portion of a topless bar where the lady is going to give me the “special show”.  In short, I had really high hopes for this exclusive trading room.

In addition to the sense of exclusivity for the Black Trading Room, I have also been receiving a steady stream of marketing emails highlighting the Black Trading Room as the Trader Planet winner of the Best Live Trading Room of 2013-2014. The marketing piece claims that anyone duplicating the three moderators would have over $129,600 since January 5, 2015. Furthermore, the marketing piece claims that the Black Trading Room never risked more than $300 per trade and had only three losing weeks. Below is the marketing piece that is emailed to prospective purchasers…

Pristine Trading

Lets take a moment and put this into context…$129,600 in profits since January 5, 2015. This means that the Black Trading Room generated an average of $16,200 in profits each and every month. Pretty impressive stuff. Especially considering that they never risked more than $300 per trade, and had only three losing weeks. I am not sure how to calculate the mathematical probabilities, but this seems on the outer spectrum of believable possibilities.

Asking For Proof

One of the things that you will not find anywhere on the Pristine.com website is a record of trades called inside of the Black Trading Room. I emailed several times and requested a spreadsheet of trades, however Amber Capra could not furnish me with any records. Next, I asked for account statements that prove these magnificent performance numbers, once again I could not seem to coerce Pristine into providing any proof of these returns. I attempted to collect verifiable performance figures several times, using several different personas, emails address and identities etc. However, I was roundly ignored. The best that they could offer was that I should attend the live trading room and that all of the trades would be called live and in real time.

My last attempt at verifying the above performance came when I said that I was ready to spend my $9,000 for the premium education package. I said that my payment was contingent upon verifying the claimed performance, however I was once again ignored. Apparently, it is OK for me to spend my $9,000 and trust that my educational package is based upon the stated performance metrics. But it is not OK to for me to verify the claims of $16,000 average monthly profits. This  scenario represent everything that is wrong with the trading education industry.

Inside of the Black Trading Room

The Black Trading Room is moderated primarily by Robert Shapiro and Paul Lange. It appears that they are calling trades from a charting package provided by Lightspeed Trading. At no time did I see a trading DOM present on the screen, nor did I see any trading directly on the charts. The following is a visual of what you will see inside of the trading room…

Black Trading Room

In total, we recorded 8 complete trading sessions. As I reviewed the tapes of the trading sessions, one of the things that I found to be confusing and annoying is that the moderators never did tell you how many shares they were trading per trade. For instance, they would enter a trade and if the trade would gain in value then they would declare that they were out 1/3, after it moved some more in their favor they would declare that they were out 2/3, and then finally out 100%.

Another annoying aspect would be that sometimes a trade would be initiated, and then the chat box would scroll through and new trades would be introduced, however the original trade would just be forgotten about. No mention of it. Sometimes a person from the general chat would call this into question, if the trade was a winner then the moderator would say that we are still holding. But if the trade were a loser, then the moderator would declare that he dumped it earlier.

Over the course of the nearly two weeks of recording trades, (those that we could actually record) we discovered that the Black Trading Room was basically a scratch trading experience. Equal amounts of losers to winners. But again, everything was so informal and difficult to follow our records could be off. My overall impression is that no records are being kept because there is no real trading actually happening. It appears that the moderators are just sort of winging it, fumbling through charts and making comments about this or that. No real concrete trading was happening, just slippery comments rolling through the chat box. The whole experience is to give the impression that actual trading is happening, but in reality what was happening is a lot of chat and commentary.

Pristine Needs To Improve

Based upon what I saw inside of the Black Trading Room, it would be a waste of time and money spending $197 each month for this sort of experience. Pristine needs to make some major improvements to this trading room. The first would be using a trading DOM or trading directly from the charts. This way customers can actually see what is happening. The second, and most important would be keeping accurate records of the trades being called inside of the trading room. If I am going to spend $9,000 to learn from one of these moderators, I want to make sure that he actually has a track record of positive performance.

Pristine needs to also provide some sort of proof that the stated gains of $129,600 in profits over the prior 8 months is legitimate. An account statement would suffice, and if you are considering spending your money with Pristine, then you should demand proof of these returns.

As it stands now, this is yet another trading room making some outrageous claims of massive profits, but unfortunately cannot provide even the most scant amount of evidence to substantiate these fantastic claims.

Well, thats it for today. Another crummy trading room. Please don’t forget to leave your comments below. Even the haters are cherished.

 

 

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eddyvideostar
eddyvideostar
5 months ago

I appreciate education and knowledge, but, not for a stultifyingly high price nor with promises of producing a profit. I enjoy the analogous ironies presented in this classic paragraph. Read:

“If the $9,000 trading educational experience has any value, then we should be able to fully witness this value within the “Black” trading room. When I think of the word “Black Trading Room”, this elicits feelings of exclusivity. Like a black American Express card, or a really exclusive night club, or a private portion of a topless bar where the lady is going to give me the “special show”. In short, I had really high hopes for this exclusive trading room.”
——————————————————————————————-
With the sentiment as the “Black American Express Card,” or the lady with the “special show,” we all know what’s coming — more hustle and more bustle. A total scam and sham!

Ezequiel Atencio
Ezequiel Atencio
1 year ago

Hi, Emmet. how are you?
When are you going to talk about ifundtraders?
Oliver Velez has lived here in Colombia since 2012, that is, since the creation of ifundtraders.
Oliver continues swindling here in the third world countries with Daniel Tirado, he is an Influencer, and he dedicates himself to divulging Oliver in events, conferences and social networks.

stepehen
stepehen
2 years ago

I am considering joining T3 trading and have been offered a prop trading position after I pass the series 57 test. T3 Live is the new educational arm that offers the Pristine method training and the Black room. In addition they are offering me options trading and a options trading community. Since both Amber Capra, husband Greg and Sammi Absuuud are the principals in T3 live and the Black room , I worry about the negative review by Emment and some others. The Valez guy is famous so I will ask Amber about him and the relationship. However, can Emment update his review or someone else share their experience with the education offered. Note Amber gave me trade history for the options trades but not Sammis in the Black room. I will ask for it now. I can join T3Trading without T3Live but feel like I need training to adjust from the position trading intermediate term trader that I am to more swing trading along with options income because my own capital is low.. I want to make a living.

Mark Osborn
Mark Osborn
3 years ago

I just found tradingschools.org and I really like this site. I wish I had found it earlier.

I would like to give my experience with Pristine. But, first, I would like to say I have nothing to gain by the positive things I’ll say about my experience. I will also list as many negative things as I can remember about my experience. I am just a wanna-be trader that that is searching for something out there to make me more successful. I started trading with Pristine around January of 2014. I traded with them for 6 months. I traded in the Pristine Room or TPM room (I don’t remember the exact name), but it was not the Black Room. I never paid for any training. I just paid for access to the room. Paul Lange was the main Moderator with 2 others. I don’t remember their names. But they were the most profitable for me. Before trading started each Mod would list their WATCH LIST before the opening bell. This was based on gaps or patterns before opening. I’m not really sure because I didn’t have the training they offered, to spot or recognize what was being sought after. In the room, the paid members could actually see each others posts. The long time or better members would recommend trades to the room, that the Mods might have missed. The lead Mod would give the member a short critique of his trade recommendation. If it was positive they would use that trade also. I never recognized any patterns, again, because I never paid for the training. Every trade that each of the Mods would be preparing for, would pop up and be permanently put in an Alert page. The trades would consist of Entry, Stop Loss and Target. That Alert page would stay up until the close of the day. I would screen shot that page everyday. The next day, the Mods would post all the trades taken the day before. I would copy that also. I would compare the 2 to make sure they were being honest and accurate. In 6 months I never found any discrepancy. Pristine used a method called “R”. It may be common and I just never heard of it or they may have originated it, I don’t know for sure. The R is how much a trader is willing to lose (or make) on each trade. The Stop that was posted, for the Trade, was based on the pattern and never on a Dollar amount. If a member had a small account and never wanted to lose more than $100 per trade, that member’s R was 100 (determined by the member only). When the Mod would post their trade, I would put the Entry price and the Stop price into a spread sheet I created (with my R of $100) and my spread sheet would tell me the number of shares to trade. The Mods usually hinted at their R as being $1000. Over the 6 months that I recorded ALL the recommended and ALL the “next day” Profit and Losses, I found that, on average, the Mods would make 0.6 R’s. In Other words the average trade would make 60% profit over there losses. Now I will list some negatives and positives mixed together, as I remember them. Paul Lange was a Machine, a Robot! He took every trade regardless. Losses didn’t effect him one little bit. Even the HUGE Losses! And he didn’t have the best “bedside manner”. He was very blunt. But he never wavered in his trading or justifying his trades or opinion. The other 2 Mods were a lot more personable. All 3 were good traders. Some days I would see the Mods lose as much as $13,000 a day (based on a $1000 R) and then the next day make back $16,000. I, personally, did almost everything wrong when I was in the room. I would cut a loser short (before the stop) only to have it turn around and make target. I would move my stop, only to take a much bigger loss than the trade recommendation. I would cut my winners short and not let them run to target. I would double my R or cut it in half at random. And worst of all, I would try to cherry pick which trades to take. I missed the best and took the worst. I traded the day they lost $13k and skipped the day they made $16k. I just didn’t do what I was being told to do. Some negatives that I remembered were, you had to be fast. (It would have helped if I had the training to spot the trades early) You had to calculate how many shares to trade as soon as you got the recommendation. If you were slow you missed the trade. Sometimes the Mod would place his own trade then type the recommendation as the trade was passing. (again, lack of training hindered me). Some of the trade recommendations were shorts. Sometimes my broker didn’t have any shares to borrow HTB or NTB. Where the Mods broker had the shares to borrow to short. I’m going to try and wrap this up now. I would recommend Pristine to the “Right Person” IMHO. Who is the “Right Person”? That’s up to you. I tried to list as many Negatives as I could remember. If you can over come those Negatives and any bad habits I practiced, you might be the “Right Person”. I think I have come a long way in discipline since the days that I traded with Pristine. One day I will go back to them, BUT with a larger margin account. I’ll trade like a Robot. I also traded with Momentum Trading systems. What a pair of lairs. I caught them in many discrepancies of their bogus P&L Logs. They probably thought nobody would scrutinize the Logs.

Rob B
Rob B
3 years ago
Reply to  Mark Osborn

NO, NO, NO!!! I personally witness an offshoot of Pristine (old moderators left to start new scam room) and saw the same circus con artist tricks. They buy a lot of stocks with big bid and ask. Plus several moderators with the one off video making all the money. A complete scam circus act. I could go on and write a long response, but due to time constraints I will keep this simple as you said it all when you wrote:

“I caught them in many discrepancies of their bogus P&L Logs.”

I saw that exact same thing. There is only one reason and one reason only you have to fake your P/L and unless you are brain dead you should get it. Trading the real world and putting actual money buying those stocks with big B/A spread is quite different. Go put real money to work for 6 months taking all their trades then report back here showing your real results, not bogus P&L Logs like they show. And that 60% return will disappear real fast.

hashzip
hashzip
4 years ago

hello emmett, do you know of any other prop trading room we can follow?

Jack
Jack
4 years ago

Mike thats strange as i just got an email from pristine saying hes doing a webinar in febuary. Can you post a screenshot of what youve read please.

Daniel Cecil
Daniel Cecil
4 years ago
Reply to  Jack

I attended the seminar today. Greg Capra was part of a presentation by t3 live today. He ended it with an offer take his course for 2K . Don’t know him or his course. I know t3 and know they are real traders. Dont know why they supposedly bought Pristine.

mike
mike
4 years ago

fyi paul lange left or was let go from the pristine room today

JJackson
JJackson
4 years ago

I appreciate you posting your experience with Pristine. I was interested in their trading offer but I never bought into any of their packages. After reading your post along with other replies I am grateful I didn’t lose my money via a purchase from Pristine. I am curious… Did Greg Capra produce proof of P&L for trades?

Andres
Andres
4 years ago
Reply to  Emmett Moore

If you need proof I can bet you 100% that Sami in the black room is better than any of you guys commenting and he always shows his P&l when he’s up 20k ,6k Etc …..

hashzip
hashzip
4 years ago
Reply to  Emmett Moore

hello emmett, do you know of any other prop trading room we can follow?

RE95
RE95
4 years ago

Hey Emmet –
I just saw your review this evening and read some of the comments. I am not surprised!

I happen to attend their open house today. Paul lost on every trade he called. And he called a lot of them. I was blown away honestly! He’s a horrible trader.
He’s also the head guy in the room, which makes you wonder how good the rest of their team is. I mean if their best trader can’t trade, how good can the others be? Needless to say, I won’t be going back again. And the PRitine Method – probably a scam!

eagleeyes
eagleeyes
4 years ago

Testify – show me that software, and then I might take your comment more seriously.

Why wouldn’t he….well, it’s really simple, his calls don’t make money. I took his calls for OVER SIX MONTHS…EXACTLY LIKE THEY WERE CALLED….AND I LOST MONEY….
And when his calls did make money on paper, at the end of the week, i still lost money due to bad fills, uptick, spread, etc.
Has he ever shown you proof that he takes his calls? again, it’s not just me, read comments above. Every single person i talk to from the room itself says the same thing…he’s a nice guy and a really awesome educator, but a terrible trader.

eagleeyes
eagleeyes
4 years ago

I agree with your review Emmet, especially when it comes to the part about transparency!!
I have been in the Pristine Room for over 1 year and can tell you Paul does NOT trade real money. It is soooo obvious. He has never shown his P&L or fills – ever! I have never even heard him say this stock is hard to borrow for me, I got a bad fill, got skipped, etc. In fact, he has to be told that his trade reached target or stopped out, almost on a daily basis. The people in the room (i am one of them) know he doesn’t trade real money (every single person I talk to knows), but we don’t say anything because there is no point. The only thing that could come out of it is to get banned from the room…it’s unfortunate, but that’s what it is. I am in there because I got the room free for life.

Testify
Testify
4 years ago
Reply to  eagleeyes

LOL! How ridiculous. I can manipulate software in a P/L screen to show whatever amount I want for a trade. It wouldn’t make any difference to me if I saw your’s, Paul’s or Greg’s P/L. I only care about my own.

Let me ask you, eagleeyes, why would Paul take the trades he calls? I am a PTT. I’m in the room. The guy knows fully what he’s doing. He’s beyond you I’d bet. Anyone else at Pristine who you think does not trade his calls?

Testify
Testify
4 years ago
Reply to  Testify

“why would Paul take the trades he calls?” That should read “why wouldn’t…”

Appletrader
Appletrader
5 years ago

Roger – i am NOT. I am actually appletrader that agreed with you that anyone that refuses to show his P&L has things to hide (I just picked rogerthat for fun).
But, clearly you are one the mods at livetraders. Now you’re promoting that they offer personal coaching. Go ahead and promote. Your desperate attempts to get clients speak much louder than all your marketing emails.

Roger
Roger
5 years ago

To Rogerthat’s comment LOL..nice name btw

That comment makes you look like one of the moderators at pristine but in anycase…you and livetraders are free to fight it out amongst yourselves..Let me focus on my trading…also read TradingWikiLeaks comment above LOL would that leave any doubt about pristine…Its shocking to see even after all that is posted…Dan Gibby is a paid moderator at pristine and they call him an expert..what a freaking joke

Roger
Roger
5 years ago

Fair Enough Rob…that makes more sense the way you just explained it now..And no, i am not affiliated with them though however i am a member in the room now and am starting my personal coaching with them next month…Hoping for the best…From a losing trader, i have finally transitioned into a breakeven’ish trader..Hoping to get myself off to a winning trader..Will keep you posted

Rob B
Rob B
5 years ago

Roger, my guess is you are affiliated with the room. Why else criticize me, someone you know nothing about, instead of discussing your experience with the room. First you must not have looked very hard as I can show links of traders with negative comments about livetraders.net including comments about their hedge fund. But my goal is not to be negative. I have not even made a final decision about LiveTraders.net. I just gave my opinion of my experience so far in a fair and honest way. Heck compared to Emmett’s reviews of most trading room I thought I was very kind in my comments. I will even go as far as to say they are more transparent than most trading rooms, but that is not much to brag about as most trading rooms as you can see from Emmett’s reviews and other posters are complete con artist. First I stated some traders from Pristine moved to LiveTraders. That is just a true statement.

Secondly I commented on their hedge fund. Livetraders.net has been talking about their hedge fund and how they were going to let members be able to trade for the hedge fund giving them $50K or more in capital to work with. I thought that sounded odd and I stated so. They have been unclear IMO in explaining how it would work. If I had to guess I bet they will have the would be traders pay for educational course and / or pay to take a test like Topstep does; that most of the traders will fail to pass. And that money will be used to fund the traders. But honestly I have no idea. Maybe I should have just said the implementation of how that would work is very unclear to me. Is that better?

In addition, I stated so far I have lost money in the room, which is true. I also stated I have only been a member for a little over a month and maybe they are having a bad month. The reason I do not leave the room is I fully understand a trader’s equity curve does not go straight up and giving them a chance over a reasonable period of time.

I do not mindless take their trades. I look at their stock selection along with mine and take the ones that meet my criteria and I enter and exit based on my trading methodology. But I also compare the trades as they traded them to my results and the posted results. For example today they had several trades and I traded C, NTAP and TWTR.

Here is my challenge. They have a one week trial for $29. Take the trial, trade their picks, their method or using your own, and post the results here. Heck maybe that week they will be on a roll. I would love to have other posters state their experience and I would like to chat with other members. Also Rogers if you are not affiliated with the room or personal friends with the traders, I would be like to Skype with you as a fellow member.

Rogerthat
Rogerthat
5 years ago

Clearly Roger is one of the moderators at livetraders.net. Read his first comment trying to promote livetraders by saying Pristine’s best traders left to start livetraders.net. And now look how defensive he got when Rob posted a negative comment about them.

Pristine’s best? Yeah right. You guys all learned from Greg, and now you’re out there bashing him on every platform you can find. You guys are full of it. I attended every one of your open houses. Fake as hell! STAY AWAY!!!!!!!

Martin
Martin
4 years ago
Reply to  Emmett Moore

Are you not trading live with them?

Emmett Moore April 29, 2015
Thank you for the kind words. I am no saint. For sure. Buy maybe I can make a bit of atonement, not by asking for forgiveness, but by expressing honesty.
I have two weeks of new video on Trading Mission. Just have not had the time to review. This truth will be in there. But it takes a little time.
I understand that finding a good trading service is difficult. For instance, I am doing a live review with a real money account at LiveTraders.net. I know these guys are real, I can clearly see the trades P and L, but these guys are young gun slingers and I am getting old and slow. In short, I cannot keep up. They make money, but I cannot execute fast enough. Frustrating. Its a bit like being a horse, and your three best friends (also horses) get to race in the Kentucky Derby. Low and behold, they have an extra slot for me, the old horse. Sure, I can run in the Kentucky Derby, but I am terribly over matched.
Forget I mentioned LiveTraders.net, I dont want the owners to know that I am trolling.They believe I am widow from Louisiana.

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