Pristine Trading

Pristine Trading
  • Honesty
  • Quality
  • Cost
  • Support
  • Verified Trades
  • User Experience
1.8

Summary

A stocks day trading room that is moderated by nice folks, but not much of a track record. They claim to make about $14,000 per month, but can provide no proof of fantastic returns. No record of trades called within the live trading room, I asked but none were provided. Trading room needs to improve by being more transparent and providing an accurate record of trades. Until then, you should avoid.

Sending
User Rating 1 (2 votes)
Comments Rating 0 (0 reviews)
Pros: Nice friendly folks. Amber Capra is a very nice customer support rep.
Cons: Trading room lacks transparency. No records of trades called inside of the live trading room are kept. Claiming average $14,000 monthly profits but can provide no proof of these fantastic returns. No trading DOM present. No trading from the charts. No account statements.

Thanks for reading today’s review of Pristine Trading

What is Pristine Trading? Pristine Trading is what I would consider one of the “legacy” trading educators. The site was founded way back in 1996 by Greg Capra and Oliver Velez, both are long time educators and salesman of various trading products. I wont go into too much detail regarding both of these men, however I can tell you that Oliver Velez is definitely someone to avoid at all costs. He has a long history of running various fraudulent trading activities, including a prop day trading firm named Element Trading. What was Element Trading? Element Trading pooled small traders together into an omnibus trading account which allowed small traders to avoid the $25k day trading rule. It worked for a short period of time, until Oliver Velez closed up shop and disappeared with the trading deposits of everyone that had contributed funds into the omnibus account. This happened back in 2012, and it was quite ugly. At about that time, Oliver Velez, with all of his fraudulent baggage broke away from Pristine Trading and started a new company named IfundTrader.com. A review of Ifundtraders will be published shortly, however lets just stay focused on Pristine.com.

Is it fair for me to mention Oliver Velez with Greg Capra? Some might say that since Oliver Velez left the firm in 2012, then everything since his departure should be considered fresh and new. However, I believe that it is important to at least include a broader history of Pristine.com so that we can bring some contrast and comparison to the new Pristine.com.

What exactly is Pristine.com offering? In a nutshell, Pristine is selling an educational package for $9,000. A quick review of the website claims that the $9,000 trading educational package is everything that a person will need to become a professional full time trader. And they also promise to continue to work with a trader until they reach their goals of becoming a successful trader. In addition to the $9,000 trading educational package, Pristine also offers a live day trading room titled “The Black Room”. This room comes at a cost of $197 a month.

The “Black Room” is considered to be the marquee trading experience, where Pristine’s very best traders display live daily stocks trading. This live daily trading experience is supposed to include entries, exits, profits, etc…and be fully trackable by the subscriber. If the $9,000 trading educational experience has any value, then we should be able to fully witness this value within the “Black” trading room. When I think of the word “Black Trading Room”, this elicits feelings of exclusivity. Like a black american express card, or a really exclusive night club, or a private portion of a topless bar where the lady is going to give me the “special show”.  In short, I had really high hopes for this exclusive trading room.

In addition to the sense of exclusivity for the Black Trading Room, I have also been receiving a steady stream of marketing emails highlighting the Black Trading Room as the Trader Planet winner of the Best Live Trading Room of 2013-2014. The marketing piece claims that anyone duplicating the three moderators would have over $129,600 since January 5, 2015. Furthermore, the marketing piece claims that the Black Trading Room never risked more than $300 per trade and had only three losing weeks. Below is the marketing piece that is emailed to prospective purchasers…

Pristine Trading

Lets take a moment and put this into context…$129,600 in profits since January 5, 2015. This means that the Black Trading Room generated an average of $16,200 in profits each and every month. Pretty impressive stuff. Especially considering that they never risked more than $300 per trade, and had only three losing weeks. I am not sure how to calculate the mathematical probabilities, but this seems on the outer spectrum of believable possibilities.

Asking For Proof

One of the things that you will not find anywhere on the Pristine.com website is a record of trades called inside of the Black Trading Room. I emailed several times and requested a spreadsheet of trades, however Amber Capra could not furnish me with any records. Next, I asked for account statements that prove these magnificent performance numbers, once again I could not seem to coerce Pristine into providing any proof of these returns. I attempted to collect verifiable performance figures several times, using several different personas, emails address and identities etc. However, I was roundly ignored. The best that they could offer was that I should attend the live trading room and that all of the trades would be called live and in real time.

My last attempt at verifying the above performance came when I said that I was ready to spend my $9,000 for the premium education package. I said that my payment was contingent upon verifying the claimed performance, however I was once again ignored. Apparently, it is OK for me to spend my $9,000 and trust that my educational package is based upon the stated performance metrics. But it is not OK to for me to verify the claims of $16,000 average monthly profits. This  scenario represent everything that is wrong with the trading education industry.

Inside of the Black Trading Room

The Black Trading Room is moderated primarily by Robert Shapiro and Paul Lange. It appears that they are calling trades from a charting package provided by Lightspeed Trading. At no time did I see a trading DOM present on the screen, nor did I see any trading directly on the charts. The following is a visual of what you will see inside of the trading room…

Black Trading Room

In total, we recorded 8 complete trading sessions. As I reviewed the tapes of the trading sessions, one of the things that I found to be confusing and annoying is that the moderators never did tell you how many shares they were trading per trade. For instance, they would enter a trade and if the trade would gain in value then they would declare that they were out 1/3, after it moved some more in their favor they would declare that they were out 2/3, and then finally out 100%.

Another annoying aspect would be that sometimes a trade would be initiated, and then the chat box would scroll through and new trades would be introduced, however the original trade would just be forgotten about. No mention of it. Sometimes a person from the general chat would call this into question, if the trade was a winner then the moderator would say that we are still holding. But if the trade were a loser, then the moderator would declare that he dumped it earlier.

Over the course of the nearly two weeks of recording trades, (those that we could actually record) we discovered that the Black Trading Room was basically a scratch trading experience. Equal amounts of losers to winners. But again, everything was so informal and difficult to follow our records could be off. My overall impression is that no records are being kept because there is no real trading actually happening. It appears that the moderators are just sort of winging it, fumbling through charts and making comments about this or that. No real concrete trading was happening, just slippery comments rolling through the chat box. The whole experience is to give the impression that actual trading is happening, but in reality what was happening is a lot of chat and commentary.

Pristine Needs To Improve

Based upon what I saw inside of the Black Trading Room, it would be a waste of time and money spending $197 each month for this sort of experience. Pristine needs to make some major improvements to this trading room. The first would be using a trading DOM or trading directly from the charts. This way customers can actually see what is happening. The second, and most important would be keeping accurate records of the trades being called inside of the trading room. If I am going to spend $9,000 to learn from one of these moderators, I want to make sure that he actually has a track record of positive performance.

Pristine needs to also provide some sort of proof that the stated gains of $129,600 in profits over the prior 8 months is legitimate. An account statement would suffice, and if you are considering spending your money with Pristine, then you should demand proof of these returns.

As it stands now, this is yet another trading room making some outrageous claims of massive profits, but unfortunately cannot provide even the most scant amount of evidence to substantiate these fantastic claims.

Well, thats it for today. Another crummy trading room. Please don’t forget to leave your comments below. Even the haters are cherished.

 

 

Leave a Reply

67 Comments on "Pristine Trading"

Notify of
avatar
Sort by:   newest | oldest | most voted
Greg Capra
Guest
Hello Emmett, There are many points covered in your review to be addressed. But let’s start with some correct history. Pristine was founded in 1994 and began providing a fax letter to one subscriber in 1995. That subscriber was my own broker at the time that worked for Prudential Securities. Eventually, that fax service grew into one seminar, a hotline call in service, which in time became the first trading chat room that could provide text in real-time. Voice technology was not yet available. As Pristine grew, I provide live trading mentorships in our office where students came there to… Read more »
eddyvideostar
Guest
I agree with Emmett: He knew what he was experiencing, the lack of communication and transparency in a timely manner. Even you, Greg, indicated that the amount needed in order to get the Pristine service would be as stated, 9000 dollars. Even you had indicated that Oliver Perez had taken funds from the company and you are distancing yourself from him. As you had written: “Oliver Velez’s time at Pristine ended in November of 2006 and was made official February 21, 2007 when he was terminated by a unanimous vote by shareholders at the time. His partnership with Charles Vacarro… Read more »
Rob B
Member
Emmett, another brilliant review of a Scam Trading Room that Trader’s Planet gives an award to. I am starting to think trading room and trading educators are like psychics where members/ customers believe without any proof what so ever. And these trading rooms use some of the same tricks to deceive their members by keeping their comments vague and flattering the member into feeling good about themselves. Physics will say things like you are an open minded person and people are like WOW that is me! The trick is everyone thinks others are not open minded but they are open… Read more »
Kevin
Guest
They recently sold themselves to T3 which is perhaps good because their chatroom numbers dropped every year as people could see past all the BS. Shockingly enough, even though they disassociated themselves with Oliver Velez, he was still a stakeholder at pristine and they continued to give that fraud kickbacks. waiting for review on velez, he is marketing really heavy these days on facebook and youtube ..trying to lure people by showing cigars, wine, destinations, trade from anywhere bs..basically following the tim sykes model of sell the dream but yet, all these guys are frauds..stay clear here is one of… Read more »
Stray Dog
Guest

The website looks like it hasn’t been updated since the 1990s but the most worrisome part of it is that none of the courses have a price. You’ve got to call their friendly consultant so that you can be harassed at home by them. First rule as a consumer is that if they won’t tell you the price it’s because it’s too expensive.

Appletrader
Guest
Appletrader

It’s really simple, anyone that refuses to show his P&L is either a fake trader or has things to hide. It does not get any simpler than that!!
If you’re so good, you’d show your P&L so people can buy your courses, right? It’s the best way to prove how good your methodology is. So, why don’t these fake educators show their P&L’s in the trading rooms? BECAUSE THEY’RE FAKE!!

Rob B
Member
As some mentioned Traders from Pristine moved to LiveTraders.net. And I will tell you so far in LiveTraders.net all I have done is lose money as the results they post are not real results, but it has only been a little over a month. I am not sure if they can trade profitably or not. But there is so odd things going over there. They talk about their hedge fund and they plan to allow traders to trade within it, but when someone ask what is the name of the hedge fund and is it registered with the SEC, they… Read more »
LottoKaj
Guest

Pristine is a lot like Livetraders.net it seems.

Roger
Guest

Great review…they are definately a scam…they had their best traders leave and start their own thing at livetraders.net those guys used to be at pristine.com before but said they left due to not being satisfied with them and how they operate.. I am liking livetraders.net quite a but after i joined them couple weeks ago. I tried to be your undercover research guy and did ask those guys all tough questions to show me their statements, fills and P&L.. refreshing to see they actually showed it infront of everyone unlike Pristine

Casey
Guest

The funny thing about these rooms is even worse than the claims and lies is they are breeding grounds for more scum, moderaters gain a following by giving good trades, see how much the owner is making by doing nothing and go and start another room. Lol, good review I had been told a few times this room was run by some successful people but found their site to be from the 1900s so I stayed away lol.

Greg Capra
Guest
Look forward to talking with you then Emmett To address a comment that was made. Some people that post comments at sites about about others often have no idea what they are talking about or have an agenda of their own for saying what they do. For example, Kevin’s post. People may think that Oliver has some connection to Pristine because he talks about his past there. The early years were a time to be proud of for him and I don’t fault him for wanting to keep a connection to it. It likely helps to deter a focus away… Read more »
Kevin
Guest

wow….Here is a post from Olver’s facebook account that i found online

http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index.php?attachments/pristine-png.150485/

How clear is the post in there which states, he is a majority owner ? How much more clear can it be..

Jerry
Guest
I spent some time in the pristine room and while they seem like nice guys, Paul, Sami and Robert, I can say that while I was in the room not ONCE did I see a moderator trade with their order entry open or show their actual results for the day. In fact, I challenge Mr. Capra to refute this point that Paul Lange, Robert or Sami’s don’t show real executions and P-L. I doubt he’ll even reply, because similar to your experience Emmett I emailed them and even called Amber and she was somehow never able to obtain even 1… Read more »
RV
Guest

Ok Mr Capra, Time to get some easy advertising by making us all eat humble pie and showing us some proof. What a dream opportunity for you. The likely alternative unfortunately is that you have bitten off more than you can chew and will not post proof which will hurt your business in the end as more and more people read these reviews. Please take this opportunity to show us all just how good the pristine traders are. In particular yourself and Mr Lange,
Looking forward to your reply.

-RV

Stray Dog
Guest

Some guy on ebay is trying to sell his copy of The Pristine Method (part 2) for $195. Unfortunately he paid over $5,000 for the course. Don’t know how good his trading has turned out if he’s worrying about $200.

Rogue
Guest

The scammers are being reeled in one at a time. If anyone wants some info on these forums below let me know, I’ve been a member at every one of them.

Daytradingradio
mojodaytrading
greatstockpix
the lincoln list
shareplanner
winningstockcoach
tradewithkavan

Shareplanner was the best and most transparent, next Lincoln list and the rest where horrendous, tradewithkavan aka picksthatmakecents was the worst

David G.
Guest

Rogue… please share your thoughts on TheLincolnList as I am contemplating giving them a try… Thanks much!

If you wish you can e-mail me dgrier777@gmail.com

Mike
Member
Hi Dave, I was at LL for a few months, I tried both the day trading and swing trading room. The swing trading room was a ghost town, very little activity, once in a while Doug would pop in say a line and leave, the trades were far and few, he held on to trades that were down as much as 15%+ and would add to them, no volume, cheap stocks, wide spreads. Day trading room – Doug would call out a play once he enters, he would also write it out, he called out stops most times but rarely… Read more »
Rob B
Member

Rouge,
Any of these traders trade profitable

Mike
Member

LL and Shareplanner are, the rest use voodoo to cover up their losses. Transparency is the key here, they both put out entries/exist and size in real time, so it’s easy to see if they’re making money, whether they trade real accounts is anyone’s guess but I believe they do, otherwise it would be a waste being profitable and not trading real money.

Charles
Guest

Mr Capra.
You say..
“As to there being no documentation of trades provided to you when asked. I don’t know why” – I can tell you why.. Because you and your company are full of shit.

Roger
Guest
I just noticed..that screenshot of the room emmet posted shows Dan Gibby in there..he was moderator in 2006 2007 and maybe even before that..even in 2008 i think He recently came back and i saw him in the room today as well…LMFAO…That trader has known to blow up every single account he started…His statements are available online thanks to Tuco Trading…he lost money every single year…only had 1 profitable month which was $10 LOL…and he moderated pristine’s advnaced room and now is still moderating there room…. Please don’t deny this since i have screenshots of all his statements..i can post… Read more »
JasodsD
Guest

please publish it if you actually have it

TradingWikiLeaks
Guest
TradingWikiLeaks

Here are screenshots showing Dan Gibby’s Trading Performance and other moderators at Pristine…Enjoy !!

http://postimg.org/image/ib2niyyid/

http://postimg.org/image/bw3mmarsl/

http://s10.postimg.org/4rltd9kjd/img3.jpg

Kevin
Guest

wow, i cant believe even after all this…that dan gibby guy is still a moderator and pro trader at pristine LOL in their pristine black method room…i guess now i know what that name black room means lol

funny to see reviews on all different educators out there…finally truth coming out

Tamiaya
Guest

I had taken a week long training from Pristine about 10 years. During one the days lunch breaks, I had lunch with Dan Gibby. He told me with his massive educational background and being a seminar instructor at Pristine he was going to leave Pristine and go to Tuco trading and show everybody how to be a trading wizard. Dan Gibby was such a condescending asshole and arrogant prick during my lunch meeting with him I could not wait till lunch was over. His failure couldn’t happen to someone more deserving.

Rob B
Guest
Not is only everything about Pristine a Joke, but all its offshoots including Live Traders.net is nothing but a circus of a scam. In fact they opened up a Forex room with Dan the Man. Seriously this guy was like a cartoon character used car salesman. I guess he was so bad they had to get rid of him and replaced him with Dale Pinkerton. He is this Forex trader with 40 years of experience trading Forex. Now let me ask you a question, what is your picture of a successful Forex trader with 40 years of experience. I am… Read more »
Cousin Williams
Guest
Cousin Williams

Umm I think your math is backwards

Rogerthat
Guest

Clearly Roger is one of the moderators at livetraders.net. Read his first comment trying to promote livetraders by saying Pristine’s best traders left to start livetraders.net. And now look how defensive he got when Rob posted a negative comment about them.

Pristine’s best? Yeah right. You guys all learned from Greg, and now you’re out there bashing him on every platform you can find. You guys are full of it. I attended every one of your open houses. Fake as hell! STAY AWAY!!!!!!!

Rob B
Member
Roger, my guess is you are affiliated with the room. Why else criticize me, someone you know nothing about, instead of discussing your experience with the room. First you must not have looked very hard as I can show links of traders with negative comments about livetraders.net including comments about their hedge fund. But my goal is not to be negative. I have not even made a final decision about LiveTraders.net. I just gave my opinion of my experience so far in a fair and honest way. Heck compared to Emmett’s reviews of most trading room I thought I was… Read more »
Roger
Guest

Fair Enough Rob…that makes more sense the way you just explained it now..And no, i am not affiliated with them though however i am a member in the room now and am starting my personal coaching with them next month…Hoping for the best…From a losing trader, i have finally transitioned into a breakeven’ish trader..Hoping to get myself off to a winning trader..Will keep you posted

Roger
Guest

To Rogerthat’s comment LOL..nice name btw

That comment makes you look like one of the moderators at pristine but in anycase…you and livetraders are free to fight it out amongst yourselves..Let me focus on my trading…also read TradingWikiLeaks comment above LOL would that leave any doubt about pristine…Its shocking to see even after all that is posted…Dan Gibby is a paid moderator at pristine and they call him an expert..what a freaking joke

Appletrader
Guest
Appletrader

Roger – i am NOT. I am actually appletrader that agreed with you that anyone that refuses to show his P&L has things to hide (I just picked rogerthat for fun).
But, clearly you are one the mods at livetraders. Now you’re promoting that they offer personal coaching. Go ahead and promote. Your desperate attempts to get clients speak much louder than all your marketing emails.

eagleeyes
Guest
I agree with your review Emmet, especially when it comes to the part about transparency!! I have been in the Pristine Room for over 1 year and can tell you Paul does NOT trade real money. It is soooo obvious. He has never shown his P&L or fills – ever! I have never even heard him say this stock is hard to borrow for me, I got a bad fill, got skipped, etc. In fact, he has to be told that his trade reached target or stopped out, almost on a daily basis. The people in the room (i am… Read more »
Testify
Guest

LOL! How ridiculous. I can manipulate software in a P/L screen to show whatever amount I want for a trade. It wouldn’t make any difference to me if I saw your’s, Paul’s or Greg’s P/L. I only care about my own.

Let me ask you, eagleeyes, why would Paul take the trades he calls? I am a PTT. I’m in the room. The guy knows fully what he’s doing. He’s beyond you I’d bet. Anyone else at Pristine who you think does not trade his calls?

Testify
Guest

“why would Paul take the trades he calls?” That should read “why wouldn’t…”

eagleeyes
Guest
Testify – show me that software, and then I might take your comment more seriously. Why wouldn’t he….well, it’s really simple, his calls don’t make money. I took his calls for OVER SIX MONTHS…EXACTLY LIKE THEY WERE CALLED….AND I LOST MONEY…. And when his calls did make money on paper, at the end of the week, i still lost money due to bad fills, uptick, spread, etc. Has he ever shown you proof that he takes his calls? again, it’s not just me, read comments above. Every single person i talk to from the room itself says the same thing…he’s… Read more »
RE95
Guest

Hey Emmet –
I just saw your review this evening and read some of the comments. I am not surprised!

I happen to attend their open house today. Paul lost on every trade he called. And he called a lot of them. I was blown away honestly! He’s a horrible trader.
He’s also the head guy in the room, which makes you wonder how good the rest of their team is. I mean if their best trader can’t trade, how good can the others be? Needless to say, I won’t be going back again. And the PRitine Method – probably a scam!

JJackson
Guest

I appreciate you posting your experience with Pristine. I was interested in their trading offer but I never bought into any of their packages. After reading your post along with other replies I am grateful I didn’t lose my money via a purchase from Pristine. I am curious… Did Greg Capra produce proof of P&L for trades?

mike
Guest

fyi paul lange left or was let go from the pristine room today

Jack
Guest

Mike thats strange as i just got an email from pristine saying hes doing a webinar in febuary. Can you post a screenshot of what youve read please.

Daniel Cecil
Guest
Daniel Cecil

I attended the seminar today. Greg Capra was part of a presentation by t3 live today. He ended it with an offer take his course for 2K . Don’t know him or his course. I know t3 and know they are real traders. Dont know why they supposedly bought Pristine.

hashzip
Guest

hello emmett, do you know of any other prop trading room we can follow?

Mark Osborn
Guest
Mark Osborn
I just found tradingschools.org and I really like this site. I wish I had found it earlier. I would like to give my experience with Pristine. But, first, I would like to say I have nothing to gain by the positive things I’ll say about my experience. I will also list as many negative things as I can remember about my experience. I am just a wanna-be trader that that is searching for something out there to make me more successful. I started trading with Pristine around January of 2014. I traded with them for 6 months. I traded in… Read more »
Rob B
Guest
NO, NO, NO!!! I personally witness an offshoot of Pristine (old moderators left to start new scam room) and saw the same circus con artist tricks. They buy a lot of stocks with big bid and ask. Plus several moderators with the one off video making all the money. A complete scam circus act. I could go on and write a long response, but due to time constraints I will keep this simple as you said it all when you wrote: “I caught them in many discrepancies of their bogus P&L Logs.” I saw that exact same thing. There is… Read more »
Roger
Guest
One thing i notice is that , everywhere online i see only good things about livetraders.net. When i tried them out, they even showed P&L and brokerage statements… Funny thing however is that the only bad thing i see is by Rob, under comments on all tradingschools blogs, Rob is the only one posting bad stuff, Then i am on elitrader forum as well. I see good things about them, Then 1 negative comment, Guess by who ? Rob again LOL…So Rob, not sure what you have against them, But all the best LOL When room results are down, they… Read more »
wpDiscuz