Order Flow Analytics
Order Flow Analytics is one the oldest ‘Order Flow’ educational service providers. The owner of the company, Don ‘DB’ Vaello certainly seems like a nice person, but unfortunately, he has absolutely no verifiable track record of ever trading successfully. Maintains a twitter page of supposed trading performance, which includes 100% winning day trades, and thousands of dollars of trading profits. However, when confronted with these supposed profits, he quickly admits that he is simply an educational provider and has no verifiable trading results.
Furthermore, publishes a series of “real trading videos” as part of his marketing scheme which gives the impression of live trading and amazing profit potential. However, once again when confronted with verifying the validity of these trading video’s, Mr. Vaello is not willing to verify performance. We must simply trust him, and trust that his magic trading indicators are statistically valid.
Thanks for reading today’s review of Order Flow Analytics
What is Order Flow Analytics? The company is a day trading educational business owned and operated by Don (DB) Vaello.
A review of Archive.Org reveals that the business originated in 2009. The business maintains a social media profile on Facebook and Twitter.
In the past 6 years, Order Flow Analytics has offered a multitude of day trading products. Some of these products include an “Intensive Boot Camp” at $2500, an “Apprentice Upgrade” for an additional $2500, and a “Bootcamp Extended Access” at $250 per month.
TradingSchools.org interviewed 5 purchasers of the educational product. The average money spent was $3,500 per student. These totals represent the aggregate sum that each student spent on courses and educational materials, as well as the $97 per month to lease the trading indicators.
Order Flow Indicators
Before I jump into the concept of Order Flow Analytics Indicators, let me first start off by saying that ‘Volume Visualization’ trading indicators are nothing new. In fact, the available data to create these sorts of technical analysis tools have been around since the early days of electronic trading aka Globex (1992). Essentially, the Bid/Ask information that is being displayed on a trading DOM is being parsed and spread-out over a graphical display. And from this graphical display, somehow we are supposed to see these magical patterns emerge.
Some trading educators will gleefully proclaim that “Huge orders are hitting the bid! And this means that perhaps a higher price move is imminent. Other trading educators will use fancy and authoritative terms like, “That Delta Divergence and Volume Cluster is where the BIG BOYS are standing their ground!” Yet others will proclaim that “Those massive 500 lot iceberg (lettuce?) orders that appeared only 60 seconds ago signify greater things to come!”
The one thing that all of these order flow indicator salesman all seem to have in common is that none of them have a verifiable track record of success. (at least none that I can find) When pressed for authentic results, they usually return an answer like,
When I developed the software, it was exclusively engineered by the world’s largest prop-trading organization.
Look, my software would of never been approved by XYZ trading platform if it were a scam.
I once had coffee with group of prop-traders in Singapore. And this lady uses a set-up named the Alligator to made consistent profits. She is happy and rich.
If you want to learn how to scalp the markets…you must use Order Flow.
Am I saying that Order Flow indicators are a complete and total scam? Am I calling DB Vaello a con-artist? No. But I am simply stating the obvious. He has no verifiable track record of ever trading successfully. And in my opinion, I have yet to find a vendor of ‘Order Flow’ trading indicators with a verifiable track record.
Supposed Performance Claims
DB Vaello of Order Flow Analytics maintains a flawless record of winning trades. At least, on his Twitter page. For the past year…DB Vaello posted the following list of day trades that he supposedly executed using his unique “Order Flow Analytics Analysis Software”.
Obviously, these sort of results appear to be ultra impressive. For the past year, not a single losing trade. Yet the Twitter page is replete with fantastic compliments and self-aggrandizement of the amazing Don ‘DB’ Vaello and his magic order flow analytics indicators.
I really enjoyed reading some of Don Vaello’s twitter comments, regarding his amazing day trading success…
- “$1600 in only 22 minutes”
- “$2260 in only 28 minutes. How was your trading today?”
- “Cha-ching another $1300”
- “Like taking candy from a baby. Another $2,000+ day”
- “$10,500 profits trading crude oil. With only a 5 tick stop!”
On and on it goes. Twitter post after twitter post, all profits and never a mention of losses. All of this can be yours with the amazing Order Flow Analytics trading indicators.
Obviously, with such amazing results, I needed to reach out to Don ‘DB’ Vaello and verify that these trades actually occurred. Unfortunately, Don ‘DB’ Vaello can show absolutely nothing to the TradingSchools.Org audience to validate the authenticity of these results. In fact, when questioned about these results, he readily admits that the posted results are only for “educational purposes” and “these are not real trades”.
In my opinion, what is most frustrating is the sneaky nature in which he markets his trading indicators. Have a look at the following video…notice the recording of a supposedly live trade in crude oil. The video gives the impression that he is casually monitoring the market, and then a trade set-up appears. He shorts the crude oil market at 6 contracts, and of course, the trade is a huge winner for over $1,000. The key takeaway with this video is the subtle sleight of hand. The narrative is that we are supposedly watching a live trade, and as the trade unfolds, the magician walks the audience through the video. All the while telling the audience “I dont know what will happen next”. But of course, he knows exactly what is going to happen next, a huge winner of $1,000+. The clever nature of the presentation gives the viewer a deep sense of hope, simplicity, ease-of-use, and lusty smell of profits.
In my opinion, the what is most impressive which the marketing videos of DB Vaello is the very smooth and calming nature of his voice. He is definitely an expert salesman. He just sounds authentic. He sounds like a trader. He say’s all the right things. It all makes you feel so confident.
But the hard and cold truth can be found by simply asking DB Vaello for any sort of proof of turning a profit, or proving the validity of these trades. He won’t. He simply responds, “this is for educational purposes only”, or “OFA is not a trading system and I have no results.”
Wrapping Things Up
I will finish this post with a little story from my past. Back in 1992, I was looking to learn how to trade. And just like you, I found a promotional advertisement in Futures magazine. A guy by the name of George Lane was willing to teach anyone to trade. He had developed a “weapons grade”, rocket mathematics trading indicator that could only be leased for a monthly fee of $250 per month. Supposedly he had been the head trainer at Bear Stearns, Goldman Sachs, and several other large trading firms. He had supposedly made millions of dollars and was now retired. But for the one-time fee of only $3,500, he would train anyone to trade. He was rich and taught this educational course because he, “simply loved to teach others to fish, to be successful at trading, to be financially independent, to make their dream comes true.” All could be conquered by learning how to use the super-amazing trading indicator called Stochastics. Yep, you are reading this correctly…stochastics.
Well, I bought into the dream, hook, line, and sinker. In those days, there was no internet. And so to learn this amazing trading indicator, I had to fly out to Illinois. In January, the freezing ass cold month of January. And so I went to spend several days with George Lane to learn these amazing trading secrets. For several days, I toiled away on a trading simulator that copied the price action in the SP500 Futures pit. Though I was mostly break even, old George Lane told me that I simply needed to keep looking at his amazing stochastics trading indicator and that the “patterns will emerge”.
Well, things didn’t work out so well. In those days, a trade cost $30. Or, $15 per side. And the trades had to be called into the pit, over an old telephone. As crazy as this sounds, I used to call a phone and place an order. After about 15 minutes, the broker would call me back and give me the fill price. At which you were either totally screwed, or totally confused about what to do next. As you can imagine, things didn’t work out so well.
Only after several years, did I invest in a program by Omega Research and backtest my Stochastics indicator. Wow was I shocked to learn that a Stochastics indicator has no more predictive value than a coin flip.
This is the underlying and fundamental problem with ‘order flow’ indicators…none of these developers can apply science that proves or disproves the theory that volume structure predicts directional price movement. It’s all interpretive. And just like stochastics, at some point, it will hit critical mass and these order flow indicators will be given away for free, or included in every major trading platform. But in the meantime, it appears to be the fashion of the day, with vendors galore selling what appears to be fancy looking Christmas lights.
Thanks for reading. I know this post is probably going to rankle a few folks. Plenty of people love these sorts of indicators, and plenty more love Don Vaello. But once again, this is just my opinion. Thanks for reading and don’t forget to leave a comment below.
Hi, I’m using a translator and there may be spelling errors.
In Brazil, this technique, better known as “tape reading” is very widespread and “used” taxed as idiot the trader that uses graph and graph does not work. The courses cost on average $ 5000. I did several courses and studied for a year, and since the beginning of the year did not obitive results. Researching this operating style I found this site, which the author quite reflects my view on order flow.
The sellers of this curriculum use a fairly appealing advertisement such as: stop losing money in the market using order flow; learn the technique of market winners; as I will earn $ 200,000 in one day using flow of order. Including interviews with major instutional and bank players who use this technique.
The main markets are: futures contracts (Dolar fluctuates by a tick of 0.5 points, ie a point is worth $ 50 with a minimum lot of 5, and the mini each point is worth $ 10 with a minimum lot of 1) is the second largest market ; index, replies to the theoretical portfolio of the bag, tick of 5 points; DI, which are interest rates, is the largest market), stocks and options.
Its supporters say that the decision-making of a great player is based on the offer book and times and trades.
Hey Emmet, Just started reading your reviews on order flow analysis. Found it pretty helpful. I’ve been looking into it as – like you said – it seems to be the latest fashion in technical indicators. I’ve been following some folks on Twitter and looking at price action during the day – specifically for crude – and it seems like these guys are using order flow and some are right on the money. Of course I’m not trading off that but I wanted to see how accurate they are. It could be coincidence or it could be a complication of factors. My question to you: I would never trust one indicator alone to place a trade, bit do you believe order flow could serve as a confirmation – supplemental indicator – to an already in place trade strategy? Or is it completely nonsense?
‘Order Flow’ analysis is a pseudoscience. Anyone that knows how to program strategies can easily debunk ‘Order Flow’. Essentially, it is no more predictive than a coin-flip. As predictive as tarot cards, astrology, or palm reading. When indicator hustlers speak of ‘methodology’ they sound just like sellers of religion.
Anyone considering ‘Order Flow’ should first watch a TED Talk by Michael Shermer: The pattern behind self-deception.
As well as read this excellent article in Scientific American…Patternicity: Finding Meaningful Patterns in Meaningless Noise (Why the brain believes something is real when it is not.)
Trading is like running a casino. If your wager does not contain a preordained statistical edge, then you are nothing more a customer of the casino. What is a statistically valid edge? Read my article Intraday Trend Trading: Is the Trend Really Your Friend?
If you are interested in Crude Oil day trading, you can also read another article I wrote titled: Crude Oil Trading: A strategy that works.
Any and all of the strategies that I publish are freely available, precoded, and ready to deploy on Trade Navigator. You can download a free copy here.
I recommend that users take what little I know, and improve upon it.
Emmett Please review http://www.theintentionaltrader.com
I am a customer of OFA this software is tool set it requires an understanding of market behaviour there is no substitute for this basic skill .
Have not been here in a while and so glad this review was done.
Im a very technical guy and figured what DB figured out was how to program Market Replay DOM to look like a real account trading live.
Market Replay would record the tape action during the recorded time period, then he could just go back and replay it, record the dopey setups, and show the sheep how wonderful his software is.
To DB’s defense, he will record a loser once a week to show he is not invincible, what a guy. All his videos are released after the fact, nothing streamed live EVER.
So, needless to say, a C+ programmer and someone like DB which access to the Ninja API’s could easily program a DOM to make it look like its happening realtime.
I will say, the software looks impressive, with plenty of shit to consume weeks of wasted time thinking this is the holy grail.
In the end, Platforms like Think or Swim, Multi Charts, Sierra Charts, can give you just about all the same shit for free .
Lastly, there are also a number of lingering room moderators from this seed who seem to land around the internet trash heap of trade rooms.
Folks, just trade, find a platform thats affordable, and use common sense.
All of these people are in the SALES business of selling investment products and are not traders.
Traders dont have time to teach or sell shit to other people, they are too busy trading. …
actually at exactly 5:00 Min you can see his account number… he is just trying to cover it up…if you go to his youtube channel you can see his account number on all of his videos…anyways i’ll take ofa over that garbage (b12 trader) on top of your screen anyday, anytime.
This guy is a joke, this is literally ridiculous. Who is out there to protect consumer rights who paid 5K to this guy????
I remember watching DB’s trade videos last summer I believe and he mentioned that he made over $50,000 profit in a number of months and that he transferred it out from his trading account. I thought he was the real deal!
Getting back to the topic at hand, which is trading vendors, I just want to say that I respect the good work and thorough research that Emmett has done and therefore I understand his rationale. He has posted his opinions and here are mine.
I am an OFA customer and have been pleased with the product. I have been following DB’s work for quite a while now (since 2012). To my understanding, DB initially developed OFA for himself which was apparently years before he made it available for sale to the public. I even remember early on when he did begin sales he mentioned how he was not in the business of selling indicators but rather that he makes his monies trading. Of course that was before his product became popular and required more time and energy than he probably initially intended to invest. Since then, it seems as though he has built up a good team to help him with support. This is where I call into question some of the contents of Emmett’s review. (Again, I am a customer so I am biased.)
As for support, based on my personal experience, I would give OFA 4 stars at least. They are very responsive and for the most part it is DB with whom I correspond. He seems to take support very seriously and is dutifully in the trenches when it comes to working directly with OFA customers.
As for the live trade videos, I remember seeing them surface on YouTube back in early 2015. He said that he was starting a “Trade of the Day” diary primarily for OFA customers. I emphasize Trade of the Day” because he has had someone call him out in the past for not having a losing trade. To which he promptly pointed out that the videos were of the “Trade of the Day” and he then showed in a video the couple losses he had that particular day prior to the successful trade. Also, for anyone who has been following those TOD videos knows he has posted a few losing days and recorded stop outs on profitable days. Unfortunately, I noticed that back in October 2016 most of these videos had been made private on YouTube (doesn’t help his case I know). My guess is that he did this for reasons connected to the launch of the new website (November 2016) which include more formal video lessons.
I’m sure some doubt still remains that DB is trading a live account. While I can’t say for sure whether he is or isn’t, what I do know is that in the past he has made it made it very clear when he was trading in a sim account or using market replay. I highly doubt he is scheming and using market replay and putting it off as him trading in his live account. One reason is, if you look at the bid/ask prices/orders on the chart trader they do not update they way they do in market replay. Market replay updates second by second making the price/order updates somewhat rhythmic. Compare this to the live market and you will find that there is very little rhythm to the price/order updates. And, pertaining to the concerns about the videos being posted hours later, I will say that editing a video does take time. Not to mention the time it takes to respond to support tickets among other things. For anyone that claims DB is using market replay I implore you to provide proof/evidence. Just because a vendor won’t provide an account statement doesn’t mean they are always scheming. Which brings me to my next comment.
As I stated above, I don’t think DB ever intended to make selling OFA products his sole source of income. As he has stated in the past, he makes his money as a full time discretionary trader. So why would he need anyone’s stamp of approval? That being said, I could understand if he could care less about providing anyone an account statement. Not to mention that it’s probably the easiest way to avoid any legal issues that would require him to secure some kind of regulatory license.
Speaking of the regulatory authorities, it is worth noting that there are a lot of apathetic folks out there who turn to trading because they have developed this misperception that it is quick and easy money. And therefore, the regulatory authorities are there in part to protect the masses from their own ignorance. Despite this fact, a lot of people still get burned. And, a lot of apathetic people still can’t make it as a trader even with the best education and 5 star review from TradingSchools.org.
Anybody who has spent anytime interacting with DB knows that he is a no BS kind of guy. Consequently, he has very little patience for the apathetic. The way I see it, DB is providing aspiring traders with a great tool and showing them how HE uses it. He is willing to provide knowledge and education to the handful of individuals who are willing to put forth the time and effort to learn a few basic principles and apply them to their trading. It’s that simple.
As I mentioned at the outset, I respect the good work and thorough research that Emmett has done. That is exactly what brought me to his website today. I wanted to see if there was any info on Auction Dashboard, then as chance would have it, I see that Emmett’s latest post is about OFA.
Please alert the public about Auction Dashboard because it seems a lot of people are being scammed out of their money.
Thanks again, Emmett, for all that you do.
Thanks for taking the time to write about your experience. I also enjoy DB. Not a bad guy. But it is my job to ask the difficult, and uncomfortable questions. And muckrake a bit. It makes for interesting reading.
Heck, if DB could show some real results…I would be the first to write about it. And it would be a financial home run for his product. Folks would be piling in and buying his products with incredible vigor. But he won’t. And this disconnection in logic creates a lot of open space. Logical people should not be afraid to enter this open space. This is where the truth resides.
Like I said, I understand your rationale.
By the way, I almost forgot. I believe DB and Jason Love (Oil Trading Group – 4.5 star rating) have interacted in the past. In fact, I think Jason Love was an OFA customer at one point. I also believe he was the one that got DB hooked on the Crude Oil market years ago.
In any event, it doesn’t shock me that when you probed JL for performance results you got a response not too dissimilar from that of DB.
I understand that it was an arduous process for you to vet Jason Love which eventually led to your 4.5 star review. I imagine JL’s incentive for for a positive review here is due to his relationship with TopstepTrader. The Oil Trading Group’s website states “Our goal is to provide you with educational tools and services designed to assist you in becoming a fully funded trader with TopstepTrader.” (http://www.oiltradinggroup.com/category/top-step-trader/)
In contrast, DB has no such goal, and therefore, no incentive–besides the free promotion of OFA products. But again, providing an account statement in return for free promotion wasn’t even appealing to Jason Love when he considered the regulatory risks associated with providing such information.
Just my two pesos.
“regulatory risks associated with providing such information.”
There are NO Regulatory Risk in providing truthful information. That is complete BS spread by con artist vendors and their shills.
In fact it is the exact opposite. The regulators want to see truth full reporting.
Sorry, but you come across to me the same as the BMT Hero’s regarding the Al Brooks review. When Al refuses to show any proof of his claims and they can not defend it, they turn and say well what matters to me is I have been able to use that information to trade profitable. But just like Al could not show any proof, neither can these shills.
If DB can show no proof, maybe you can show proof as a successful student of DB’s training. But as is always the case when one of these shills is called out, no proof is given and then they go on to blast me. Man I have seen this movie so many times.
If this TR operator could trade profitable he would be shoving the proof down Emmett’s throat and anyone that believes different is either very very naive, in wish I say welcome to the world of Day Trading or they are a shill. Plain and Simple.
You beat me to it Rob B. I read that stinking load of @#*% about regulatory risks and immediately thought what utter BS. What government body is going to impose a fine or take legal action against someone for telling the truth? The same nonsense argument was trotted out on the FIO (BMT) site which only proves that if someone is determined to believe that the unicorn exists there’s nothing you can do to stop them.
The only regulations that i’m aware of is with regards to promoting simulated statements as representing real cash trades and also if non-licensed financial advisors actually give recommendations on which stocks to buy/sell.
Let me ask you all a question. Why hasn’t anyone bashed Raymond Deux (Founder and CEO of NinjaTrader) for not providing an account statement reflecting his trading performance?
I’ll tell you why. It’s because everybody intuitively understands that Ninjatrader is a trading platform and NOT a “trading system.” Likewise, OFA is simply a data visualization tool. It is not a trading system nor is it marketed as such. It is simply a piece of software that organizes and presents the data in a way that is meant to assist in trading decisions.
DB simply demonstrates how it CAN be used by sharing HOW HE USES IT. He’s not promoting any trading system and therefore is not obligated to provide any trading results, whether it be to TradingSchools.org, CFTC, NFA, or otherwise.
It’s just a piece of software people.
Talk about shill city. Are you Don or his brother. Maybe you did not read the thread so I will help you:
“DB Vaello of Order Flow Analytics maintains a flawless record of winning trades. At least, on his Twitter page. For the past year…DB Vaello posted the following list of day trades that he supposedly executed using his unique “Order Flow Analytics Analysis Software”.”
Do you see the difference now. He is making specific claims and cannot back up any of them.
So why does he make fake claims, because a lot harder to sell his SW if he just said here is some trading software that shows order flow for sale that may or may not help you.
Once you make claims of trading profitability then YES you must be able to back them up or be prepared to be ridiculed as the fraud that you are.
Either, you and I have a different understanding of the word flawless OR you didn’t scroll through DB’s Twitter page (see May 5 and Apr 6).
As for my opinion on whether or not DB has been making fake claims about his personal profitability, I refer you to my initial comments in this thread.
And with that, this will be my last comment.
I stated what I think in an effort to offer another viewpoint to those who might actually read the comments. Take from it what you will.
You are joking right? First you will notice I used “” as I was quoting word for word from Emmett’s Article.
Second May 5th, this is what DB posted:
So Rough Day trading is up $1260.
I tired to play his youtube video to see what happened on those days but none of them opened.
If you believe the amazing (my words this time) track record DB is showing then you are either a shill lying through your teeth or need to get off the Kool-Aide you are drinking.
I agree, another shill RobB. Over on the OFA bmt thread, it was reported they took down most of their own after the fact youtube videos, probably because they got a call from Emmett and panicked, “education only!” , haha.
@Roibert S I’m in agreement with Rob B, you’ve got to be a shill or you were dropped on your head as a child. Regardless of what else Ninjatrader does it is essentially a platform for placing orders in the market. OFA, as it is marketed, is a “tool” that signals when you should place an order and what type of order it should be. Not the same thing at all as Ninjatrader.
I have never seen where OFA says that it gives a signal when to place an order, thats the tough part you have to know how to read the market with the tools to determine this for youself
all these cunts’ve been pitching and promoting each other for years, I can bet any free trial in the Jason’s Oil Trading room will include a conversation with a virtual cunt who has supposedly just passed the topstep’s hamster wheel combine. Kam Dhadvar pitching Peter Davis, and Peter Davis pitching Stage 5 Brokerage with their biting commissions and margins, Giles (et tu autem, Brute!) pitching Jigsaw – maaahhn – all these cunts act like a focking cartel!
Creative language. A man after my own heart.
“topstep’s hamster wheel combine” im dying over here. hahahaha
thanks for the honest reviews, i might take a month stab at OFA just for the volume analytics. I find it helpful when scalping .4-.8 cents to be able to see where the breaking point is.
Emmet, if you would go to the store to buy brushes and paint would you ask for a proof Picasso used it to paint some lady with a triangular head or maybe the manufacturer of the brushes must be Salvador Dali himself? Its indeed a right question for a particular system seller or an educator but for a tool vendor? Would you ask CME to present you a record how they themselves trade theirs futures successfully?
This is the most sensible post. Its up to the trader to ultimately make the right decision, not the indicator. If you cant, don’t trade.
Yes, a few complaints trickling in. Has not hit the magical complaint marker that triggers a review.
Eventually, all of the Bid/Ask auction tools will be free and preprogrammed onto every platform. Same life cycle as Stochastics, MACD, Velocity, etc. Once that happens, the luster wears away. And a new idea will pop up. The new fashion appears to be AI. This time next year we will be arguing those merits. Trading educational industry is quite funny.
I am a victim of this Snake oil Saleman and his Partner in crime George . I bought the legacy software for $6000 and the Ninja plugin . Never made a dime with the rubbish software. Cost me all in all more than $10,000. Do not defend these criminals who cannot trade to save their lives. Thanks Emmett for exposing these LIARS.
Wedzi – Did you actually follow his advice and do the replay at end of day; practice each and every day; sit, watch and trade for at least 10K hours???? This on-going practice along with the OFA tools will help you trade better. I am guessing you answered no to the questions.
I have watched DB’s videos that show a real account number on the platform not sure how you could fake that and like Robert mentioned he always says when he is in sim. I highly respect DB and love the OFA tools, but for all that live on negativity when he teamed up with Chris(Chip)Cole and presented a bond course that was supposed to get you to the level to trade for Topstep. That was a scam, myself and a lot of other people lost a lot of money.
I used to get emails from them asking if I wanted to ‘go ahead’. After I asked them for ANY evidence at all that D.B Vaello’s amazing daily trades were real- even in sim they stopped writing to me.
Then a few weeks later I asked if I could just watch in real time for one or 2 days: they never even replied..
Honestly I almost bought it, but just those 2 simple questions that I picked up from emmett saved me thousands. Thanks emmett!
Today, yet another video created with the benefit of hindsight. $680 in mythical profits. How do people buy into this nonsense?
Hey Don, how about trading with a live account, during live market hours? Love to see how it works out then.
The only accolade which Don (DB) Vaello and his OFA ‘product’ deserves is that he is a very shady salesman peddling a pseudo-science scam. As I know from my own experience.
When I reproached him for his absence of any ethics, I was invited to
“Have a nice day.”
He deserves ‘a very wide berth’.
Make sure you give him one.
I swear to God, I have learned more from Emmett’s website and made (saved) more money than I have anywhere else in all my years trying to trade the market. This website is Gold. Thanks Emmett.
Emmett, with such a consistent winning record of on average $700/day it should be easy to verify Don’s product. Just tell him that you’ll follow his picks for a week, that you’ll buy his indicators with the proceeds and give him a good review.
By his own claims, the proceeds should cover the cost of the indicators and then some (potentially tens of thousands of dollars), and a good review from you would bring him many new subscribers, so he should be very interested in this deal. That is, of course, if his product is real. If it’s not, then he won’t bite; and we’ll know why.
See Goagal, we are in agreement.
It is amazing how these vendors never have a losing trade, yet everyone that tries their products do nothing but lose money
Emmett, this might be a mind field as bad as the Al Brooks review, as once folks realized the failure of lagging indicators they go to order flow. The daring among many. One trader I Skype with talks about iceberg orders all the time, but is yet to make a dime from it.
But these vendors have to keep inventing stuff to keep scamming people. The funny thing as I tell people is there is nothing new, just rehash of what is already known. Even Market Profile, I am like all it is doing is showing areas of consolidation and areas where prices easily moved, do you really need a chart to see that.
I love watching the evolution of these different sorts of trading indicators. For instance, there is a thread on BigMikes where Don Vaello is pitching his indicators and then Peter Davies starts asking Don about his special indicators. Next thing you know…Peter Davies springs up with Jigsaw Trading. Its hilarious. I like Peter. Great software guy, pretty good indicator hustler, but not too much snake oil. I am sure that Peter is already trying to figure out the next trend in technical analysis trading tools.
Some would argue, how can we possibly go further than dissecting the Bid/Ask and volume intersection? Just watch. In a few months, somebody is going to come up with something totally original. With so much popular culture consuming AI, such as HBO’s Westworld, I rather suspect that the new trend is going to be AI based technical analysis.
All you vendors out there…get busy!
Thanks for this review Emmett. I was afraid you were just going to leave the OF review sample at ice cream truck Roussos and MarketDelta. OFA has been a long mainstay of the Ninja partner ecocesspool so with this review the sample is a better representation. Wow, didn’t realize you were that longtime a member of bmt. Yes, Davies is a pleasant fellow member on the bmt boards. He has always encouraged OF in a friendly manner. I hope one day you will get to review Jigsaw and would be interesting to find out if anyone involved ever traded for a living using its tools, or have proof they even traded live at all in the past years.
I seems like D.B.Vaello which reminds me by acronym use of M.A. Perry/warbling-newb-raider, panicked and said “educational only!” and proceeded to hastily do damage control erasing a lot of yt video claims.
Lol, bmt was bothered by this waking up in bed. Maybe they were all panicked that Emmett was calling and asking questions. Emmett alert! When OFA has been a long mainstay on bmt as well.
Would be great to see a review of Jigsaw trading one day. Nearly everyone that’s jumped to order flow seems to swear by it, even long term veterans of Big mikes.
Please note this: I watched Jigsaw at the very beginning of his start. He used to have a trading room and make it’s performance available. The results were probably genuine because they were all the time negative with barely 1 trade taken every day. After a while the performance was wiped from the site maybe because was interfering with sales pitch .So stay away from this guy.
Making Al Brooks into an android vendor makes sense. AL 9000, like HAL9000 but with some of the sexual appeal and manipulativeness of the Ex Machina android.
Why is this shill allowed to advertise Al Brooks on every single unrelated review? Al Brooks must be paying you a handsome sum Pete.
Pete is like a oil fire. The only way to put him out is to starve him of oxygen.
Good to see one of the long time mainstays of orderflow vending well known from bmt exposed. I was worried you were just going to leave it at ice cream truck Roussos, an of small timer, and Market Delta, a platform package with their own shilling, but glad to see with this OFA review, a wider representation where OFA has been a big name of the Ninja ecocesspool and cross-marketing. Back in October, someone reported OFA was hastily cleaning up their yt videos. I wonder if it was due to the panic, “education only!” of emmett calling, lol. No doubt TS along with CFTC attention has shook things up, on bmt as well.
I really enjoyed reading about your trading experiences in 1992. Aside from dealing with a high commissions and a broker over the phone how the heck did anyone have access to realtime charts or indicators back then??? What were the daytrading margins like back then say for the SP 500???
Real-time data was delivered via satellite dish. You had to crawl up onto a roof and point it south. Pretty funny huh? In those days, the internet was analog and dial up speeds were 54k. AmericaOnline baby.
I remember when I got the satellite data piped into my computer, and then the data was processed using the mysterious and super high tech trading indicator named Stochastics. The mysterious and amazing Stochastics. I had something that nobody had…Stochastics. LOL!
SP500 day trading margin was $25k per contract.
Thank you for telling me about “the old days”. Wow! $25K day trading margins to trade the big SP 500. Was there even a such thing as a “low bankroll futures trader” back then? If there was they probably traded corn. The funny thing is nowadays the “low bankroll” crowd trades mini S&Ps with very very low daytrade margins.
I can’t believe all of the hurdles you had to overcome just to trade. All of the hurdles just to get a frikin Stochastics on your screen! I mean you had to be really well funded to go putting up satellite dishes, buying computers, huge daytrading margins. When all of that is said and done then you have to wait 15 minutes to get a call back from a broker! Insane! and you must pay $30 round trip to have that honor…insane. With all of those damn bankroll requirements someone could have just moved to Chicago with less money and become a Local down in the pit.
the truth is jigsaw works, probably ofa works too, but its just a tool, not a holy grail.
He doesn’t make picks and the OFA tools are not a system and I must say it will take a long time to know how to use them like DB
The lack of verifiable success stories trading order flow is reminiscent of price action scams, along with claims of profits, whether direct claims like this guy and wrbtrader or indirect claims made by that cultish palm reader. In 2017 Donald Trump and the CFTC are going to show no mercy in their investigations and prosecutions, according to my legal contacts in the industry.
Pete, I’m trying to figure out just where exactly you get your information. First out of thin air, you said it’s impossible to be successful at daytrading (no proof given and unless you’ve been trying to do that for a very long time, how do you draw that conclusion);
Then you referred to some anonymous trader who uses a 500 tick stop on some non-defined pattern as if that was a profitable thing to do (and what was the purpose of that – it certainly didn’t add to anyone’s ability or knowledge about trading).
Now you offer this tidbit on the President elect. In case you haven’t been keeping up with the Donald, he’s in favor of LESS regulation, not MORE, so why do you think the CFTC is gonna suddenly go after small fraudulent TR’s when there are much bigger fish to fry if any, Your “legal contacts in the industry”? Yes, you got taken by the Brookster (and took that $20,000 high interest loan without doing your due diligence), $20,000? You seem to want to place blame, but hey some of that’s on you, not all on him, take some responsibility.
Trump ran with a plan of restoring national sovereignty and restoring law and order. The logical first swamp to drain is the trading educational businesses and trading vendors. .
How can one even respond to such a post. Is this some type of satire that I am not familiar with?
Obvious Trump will go after trading room operators before protecting our men and women in blue who are being gunned down in cold blood.
Poor Pete, Al Brooks has done a number on him. He’s suffering from Post-Traumatic-Stock-Disorder :-p
LOL – Now that is on the mark.
What about all the unarmed civilians, some already restrained, that the men in blue are gunning down, often because they had the temerity to be born black? I do not condone murder from anybody, but it is especially egregious when it comes from sadistic, control freaks, to whom the government has issued the guns.
I hate to deviate so far off the thread, but that comment is outragious.
There are more whites shot by police. And there are a small very small % of improper shooting.
But I suggestion you get off your butt and go out on patrol with the police in gang ridden inner cities, where they will are shooting young kids and have zero respect for law officers or anyone and then come back and report your experience.
To be very clear, it does not matter the color of those unarmed civilians being gunned down by the police. Nobody deserves to be murdered by government issued arms in the hands of psychopaths who are in uniform.
I only mentioned the “black” because it is the murder of blacks that often gets shown on tv. Very few unjustified shootings of whites are ever publicized. Does that mean that it is not happening? Of course not. It happens. And it is just as reprehensible.
I apologize for misdirecting my comment, by using a subsidiary clause, mentioning race, as an aside. I do not mean to inflame racial passions.
I found this study by a black person that was trying to proof your point very interesting
First of all I did not say that only blacks got shot. That would be ridiculous. However, there are so many obvious cases where a man was shot because he was black, by any objective criterion. When a man is being held down by 2 officers, and one reaches for his gun and kills the man being held down, the reason can only be surmised, but seems hard to decide that it has nothing to do with race. (That one was in the news not long ago, and captured on tape. The shooter is still free to kill other people, last that I checked).
This study that you cite is a bit all over the place, and can easily be read to either support your point or refute it.
Yes, I agree that the inner cities are tough to police. The question would be “why?”, and still does not justify turning those areas into government sanctioned killing fields for they that wear the blue uniforms.
I agree no one should be wrongfully shot, but there are around 1 Million Policy officers and you are making blanket statements about all of them based on a few, very small, incidents.
And what has happened, as police back the number of murders is going up. So now more murders. Great!!!!
And I can bet you the people who complain about cops are the 1st one to call them to come protect them when something happens.
This is not a race issue IMO. Heck in the Freddie Gray case 1/2 the defendents were black. And there has been incidence with White, Black, Hispanic and Asian police officers.
But this gets to be very complicated and then it gets newsified. That is why they must be given a fair trail. Cops are not Gods. Yes some, I would say a very small number are bad, but some also make mistakes. It is a tough job where you have to make split decisions. Is the thing in the persons hand that they are pointing at you a pistol or some other object.
But if we side against all cops and go with all criminals, you think it is bad now. Wait and see.
I agree with everything that you have said in this post. My initial response was just pointing out that you had mentioned only one side of the issue.
So far, I would venture to say that in the majority of cases where cops were murdered, it was in revenge for another unarmed person who got killed by police. I think that the so-called vengeance is misguided, especially as it is other police who get killed rather than the specific blue-uniformed murderer.
Nevertheless, we must mention both sides of the issue. I am pretty sure that if the police did not murder unarmed people in the first place, the misguided vengeance would also not occur. Yes, it is murder. In a large number of these cases, the murdered civilian was running away and shot in the back, or already restrained, or simply standing, not pointing anything at anyone.
Finally, being critical of police misconduct does not preclude one from calling on them to do the actual job for which they are being paid, so yes, if I need the police, or think that someone else needs them, I will dial 911. They are supposed to be PEACE officers, not an armed force of psychopathic killers.
“Pete, I’m trying to figure out just where exactly you get your information. First out of thin air,”
No, no not out of thin air rtchoke. Look closely as Pete bends over and reaches around. Now you can see where he pulls his information from.
You cannot see that. His head is up in it.
Damn, I forgot to look there . . .
Yes, Donald Trump will save us.