Algorithmic Trading Review

Algorithmic Trading Company
  • Honest
    (5)
  • Quality
    (5)
  • Cost
    (3)
  • Support
    (5)
  • Verified Trades
    (5)
  • User Experience
    (5)
4.7

Summary

An excellent, top tier systematic trading company. My most researched and thoroughly documented review to date. A tremendous amount of mental horsepower has gone into these trading algorithms. A very smart developer with high level engineering, math, and programming skills that is offering a true high level performance product. Proven track record. A level of honesty and candor, that in a trading vendor, I had not thought possible. Highly recommended. Excellent customer support.

Pros: Completely open and honest trading vendor. Trading algorithms designed by an engineer with high level experience in the design and implementation of real world industrial algorithms. All algorithms have proven track records from verified brokerage statements. Vendor cares about his customers.
Cons: Not cheap. The recommended account minimum is $17k and the price of algo's come with a yearly maintenance fee. Contact vendor for pricing.

Today’s review is a trading system vendor named AlgorithmicTrading.Net and MyStockTradingBiz.com. Both websites display nearly identical information. The business is owned and operated by Rich Metzger. The official address for the business is 702 W Idaho Street, Suite 1100, Boise Idaho, 83702. I can confirm the address as a location for executive suites and virtual offices. An actual address is pretty refreshing, even if its only a virtual office. Over the past few months of writing reviews, I have found that the majority of addresses listed by trading vendors are bogus. Some examples would be a vacant lot in Houston, a wedding dress shop in Oklahoma, an actual church in Phoenix Arizona, a swampy field in Michigan, a trailer park in Florida, and a high school. I also found it refreshing that Rich has an answering service for the toll free phone number. The vast majority of trading vendors just default to voice mail, and getting a return phone call is tantamount to getting a wisdom tooth pulled. I made several phone calls to the toll free number, all calls were answered or quickly returned by Mike Webber, the director of sales.

Before I get into the nuts and bolts of what this company is offering, I wanted to take a moment to highlight some blaring irregularities. Anomalies. Weird sightings. Things that you just dont see too often in the trading world. As a matter of fact, I have seen some things with this company that I have never witnessed before. Sort of like seeing bigfoot, a jackalope, a chupacabra, or a fully constructed chicken coop in the middle of my local Costco.

Blaring Weird Sighting Number One

The first thing that I saw on both sites was an official stamp and a link to the Better Business Bureau. I have looked at hundreds of trading products, and this just looked fascinating to me.

BBB Graphic for Algorithmic Trading

This really piqued my interest. I see Better Business Bureau listings for roofing contractors, plumbers, electricians, etc. But I had never seen anyone with a trading product attempt to establish credibility with the BBB. Truthfully, I have known a few building contractors and they all hate the BBB because the BBB always sides with the consumer. The person with the negative BBB review is usually forced into some sort of monetary settlement with the disgruntled party because a negative BBB rating is the kiss of death, at least for a building contractor. The BBB is a consumer advocacy, meaning the consumer’s argument is usually all that matters, right or wrong. Within the context of a trading product, especially a product where the consumer is guaranteed to lose money at some point (all systems lose money at some point), I felt like this was an extremely risky move on the part of Rich Metzger. There is basically no upside to putting the BBB sticker on your website.

And in addition to the BBB being a nearly guaranteed lose/lose proposition to any trading vendor, I also noticed that AlgorithmicTrading.net/MyStockTradingBiz.com are an Accredited Business. What does this mean? This means that Rich Metzger had to fill out a bunch of forms and answer a bunch of questions about who they are and what they are offering. What are those forms and questions? I was curious myself, and so I called my local Better Business Bureau chapter located in San Diego, Ca. I asked them what I have to do get accredited. I was interviewed on the phone, and then sent a bunch of forms to fill out. I felt like I was filling out the intake forms that need to be filled out whenever a person attends a brand new physician. I felt a bit violated. But I filled out my forms, acting as if I had a trading system to sell to the public.

A day later, I get a phone call from an “intake specialist” from the BBB. He had reviewed my forms and explained to me that the Better Business Bureau is a consumer advocacy group, blah blah blah. In a nutshell, if I get any complaints then I will be forced into answering the complaints and that a counselor would be assigned to any disputes and that the counselor would try and find a resolution for both parties. Immediately I am thing to myself, what if my trading system turns to shit and bunch of people start losing money? I am going to have to deal with some counselor that is going to want me to refund money? This is a risky bet for any trading vendor. And to make matters worse, the Better Business Bureau wanted to charge me $800 dollars as intake fee, and $500 each year, just to put that sticker on my site.

As I thought about this whole BBB accreditation, I could not help but think that the guy selling this trading system is really making an honest attempt at being honest. You can review the Better Business Bureau file here. There are 9 positive reviews, and one resolved complaint. I would consider these reviews to be very accurate. The Better Business Bureau is an entirely different animal than the fake review bullshit that can be found at Investimonials or random social media. A lot of you reading maybe thinking, “hey Emmett, quit blathering on about the BBB”. But you know what? Its kind of a big deal folks. The guy running this AlgorithmicTrading.Net company actually paid money and went through the intake process at the BBB, and if his system turns to crap and a bunch of folks start losing money, then you know for a fact that the BBB is going to come back and haunt him.

Blaring Weird Sighting Number Two

With all trading system vendors, they all love to display back tested results. If you know anything about back tested results for trading systems, then you already know that back tested results are as useless as second hand toilet paper. In fact, every time I view a page on a vendor that shows back tested results for a trading system, the contents within my stomach begin to curdle. They are vomit inducing. If they are not to you, then you have not spent enough time reviewing trading products. Back tested trading results mean nothing, the only thing that matters is actual results. The kind of results that can be shown and listed on a brokerage statement. Actual statements are the meat and potatoes that we want. Back tested results are puffery. Sure, they give us an idea of what to expect going forward, however all vendors pluck out the smoothest and prettiest of the results. In other words, the bride you are marrying is not the same bride that shows up later to consummate the marriage.

So lets jump to Blaring Weird Sighting Number Two…brokerage statements. You can clearly see on these pages that we are looking at brokerage statements from Trade Station. Admittedly, the entire year of 2014, for both clients that submitted brokerage statements is highly, highly impressive. Of course, both clients did add units aggressively throughout the year, but we cannot argue with these results. I would love to have these types of returns.

But are these brokerage account statements real? Or are they doctored nonsense, a creation of a clever graphic artist? And so I downloaded all of the statements for both clients, covering the entire year. Next I emailed the attached .pdf’s to broker support at Trade Station Securities. I specifically wanted to speak with a broker that could review these statements for authenticity. After 20 minutes of speaking on the phone, and another 6 hours of waiting for an answer, I got what I was looking for…the statements were in fact authentic.

Blaring Weird Sighting Number Three

Next, after confirming with the BBB and the authenticity of the brokerage statements, I then went “web scraping”. This is where I do an exhaustive google search of the company name, the principles, and look for any dirt floating or red flags floating around the internet. Surely there must be some dirt! This Rich Metzger is too squeaky clean. Finally I find some dirt. The Rip Off Report. Now I had this Rich Metzger exactly where I wanted him. The Rip Off Report! Nobody can survive a a bad write up on the Rip Off Report. And what I found out next is going to amaze you…

It turns out that the Rip Off Report actually gave Rich Metzger and My Trading Biz a reward. And certified him and his company as a “Rip Off Report Safe Business Service“. WTF! The Rip Off Rich Metzger ReviewReport actually likes this guy? Amazing. The Rip Off Report does not like anyone, anything, or any business. Its the cesspool of complaints. Once you get your own page on the Rip Off Report, you might as well change your name and move to Ecuador because your reputation as a business owner and a human being are now destroyed. No kidding folks. This is the oddest situation. Read the report My Stock Trading Biz-Rich Metzgeryourself. To make all of this stranger than fiction, The Rip Off Report even had a third party, on-site verfier visit Rich Metzger and take pictures of him.

The following is an excerpt from the Rip Off Report,

Ripoff Report’s discussions with MyStockTradingBiz have uncovered an ongoing commitment by the company to total client satisfaction. This commitment is unprecedented in the industry they serve. For one, they offer an onsite installation service where they actually travel to their customers location and perform a professional installation of the algorithms onto their customers tradestation platform. Furthermore, they provide 24/7 phone support to all customers. They are available to help ensure customers are properly trading their three algorithms. They don’t just do the install and vanish.

This is pretty impressive stuff folks. It seems like at every turn, I kept uncovering more information that kept reaffirming the honesty and legitimacy of this company.

AlgorithmicTrading.Net: The updated results for 2015

On both of the webpages, algorithimictrading.net and mystocktradingbiz.com, the performance figures for real time trading are all verified and real. But notice how there is no updated performance information for 2015? This made me suspicious and so I called and spoke with Mike Webber on the telephone. He directed me to the spreadsheet that contained the updated performance. Please view below:

AlgorithmicTrading.Net *Real Time Results 2015*

Trading DateAlgo 1Algo 2Algo 3Algo 4Algo 5Daily Results
5/3/2015-$249-$50-$513-$513$1,018-$307
4/26/2015-$1,625-$438-$519$0$0-$2,582
4/19/2015-$234-$200$537$499$0$602
4/12/2015$985-$438-$210$365$243$945
4/5/2015-$1,031$368-$60$362$0-$361
3/29/2015$1,390-$219-$519-$1,579-$150-$1,076
3/22/2015-$187$0$0$0$0-$187
3/15/2015$1,344$962$0$0-$519$1,787
3/8/2015$0-$219$0$0$593$374
3/1/2015$0$358-$1,063-$328$99-$933
2/22/2015$0$0$231-$138$0$93
2/15/2015$0$0-$288$380-$494-$401
2/8/2015$0-$71$96$446$0$471
2/1/2015-$2,624-$226-$9$0$0-$2,860
1/25/2015$1,485$0-$213$131-$494$909
1/18/2015-$218-$219$0$0$0-$437
1/11/2015$797-$219$0$0-$31$546
1/4/2015$1,516$411$0-$378$0$1,548
-$1,869

As you can see, they are in a little bit of a drawdown for 2015. Which for systematic trading, is not out of the ordinary and nothing to be concerned about. Mike explained that the draw down on the model account of $17,000 was actually close to 15%. Which again, is not a big deal. However, how do I know that Mike was not lying to me? And so I asked him. Mike then explained that as of the first of the year, the company decided to use a full service broker to execute the trades for customers. This would actually save the customer money by not having to open an account with Trade Station and avoid paying the platform fee’s. By using a full service broker, then the trades would be auto executed by someone that could “babysit” the platform each day, and make sure the trades were executed for each client properly. One of the unforeseen side effects of using the full service broker model was that the broker was actually getting better fills than the Trade Station broker.

Verifying The 2015 Results, Broker Relationship

What Mike was telling me over the phone sounded fine and good, but I wanted to speak with the actual broker assigned to execute these trades. And most importantly, I wanted to verify the authenticity of the 2015 spreadsheet. Next I called Barb Levy of The Fox Group, I wanted to know if this spreadsheet was extremely similar to what she was executing for clients. Barb Levy confirmed that she was in fact executing trades for customers of AlgortihmicTrading.Net. Barb went on to explain that she was not comfortable giving specific execution details, specific returns on accounts, and that doing so was against company policy. In speaking with Barb, I could tell that she was comfortable talking about the company, but giving specific account returns would be “crossing the line”. This was good enough for me. Brokers are notoriously tight lipped and sensitive about endorsement.

One other thing I would like to mention is that Rich Metzger negotiated a rate of $6.50 round turn for each of his referred clients. This is actually a great deal. Someone else has to babysit the trades at a very reasonable price.

Everything Looks Good, But Who Is Rich Metzger, The Phone Call

Ok, so after a long two weeks of researching, digging up information, looking for dirt, etc. I have been able to conclude that this company is real. The average return for 2014 was 99%, the average return for 2015 is currently -15%, and everything checks out thus far. But one thing I really wanted to know about is the developer. I wanted to speak with Rich Metzger on the telephone, ask him  some tough questions and find out more about him. What I discovered is that this guy is the real deal. He is an electrical engineer with an emphasis on computer science. Basically his entire career has been about designing algorithms for industrial purposes. Our conversation lasted for quite some time and I was extremely impressed. I also asked him to email a quick summary of who is he is why he started this company. I got the following response from Rich,

Graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering back in 2001 ( computer science emphasis). I’ve worked for Fortune 500 companies as a logic design engineer including Hewlett-Packard, Intel and Qualcomm until 2013 when I decided to start my own Algorithm Development Company. My expertise in algorithm development, finite state machine coding/design and advanced mathematics has made me the perfect fit for quant/mechanical trading.

As far as trading goes, I traded on the side the entire time while doing the corporate grind, mostly losing money as my emotions whipped me in and out of trades at pretty much the exact wrong time. It wasn’t until I began doing research on quant trading that I began to realize there is a better way.   I signed up with tradestation and began coding very basic algorithms and quickly started to realize the power of back-testing. The bad news was that also started the “learning phase again” quickly realizing that back-testing is only a small part of the battle.  I coded over well over 300 algorithms, almost all of which did poorly when applied to live trades. A few stood out as gems and those are what we offer to our customers today.  The white paper describes our design methodology which includes trading in liquid markets, back-testing, independent evaluations, large average gain per trade, etc.

My best advice to future developers?  Keep your algorithm as simple as possible.  The fewer the technical indicators the better (1-2 is ideal). Be honest with yourself and try to prove your algorithm wrong. Don’t get caught up in the emotions of thinking you found the holy grail, you really didn’t because it doesn’t exist. Try to find reasons why your algorithm will fail once going live and then let the chips fall where they may!

Thanks,

Richard

OK Richard, That Sounds Nice But This Annoyed Me…

One of the things that annoyed me was the presence of two web sites. MyStockTradingBiz.com contains roughly the exact same information as AlgorithmicTrading.com. And in all honesty, neither site does a very compelling job of selling the service. However, I was able to pull out a very well drafted .pdf “White Paper” which is exactly the information that you need that explains everything in great detail. I mentioned the confusion and incongruencies of both websites to Rich. He completely agreed. The original name was MyStockTradingBiz.com, which to me sounds scammy. Rich agreed and began building out AlgorithmicTrading.net, and will be shutting down the MyStockTradingBiz.com website in the near future. However, even the AlgorithimicTrading.com website is probably too rich and cumbersome for most folks. The .pdf white paper is really the meat and potatoes of the program. Its does an excellent job at describing exactly what the Algorithmic  Trading company can do for you.

QA-Products-Offered-and-Design-Methodologies-5-Algos

Wrapping Things Up

This is probably one of the most exhaustive and well researched blog posts that I have made. Considering that this is a trading system, I wanted to really make sure that every detail was fully researched, and every piece of evidence was documented and investigated. For me, I really like this trading system and am personally very close to making a decision on purchasing the system and then opening an account at Fox Trading. A lot of mental horsepower went into the creation of the algos. And I have a double extra does of confidence in knowing that everyone involved at this company also has their money trading the system. Just too many positive variables to ignore this company.

Once again, thanks for reading and don’t forget to leave any comments or questions below.

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Kane
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Kane

How long has this trading site been down?

Toby
Guest
Toby

Just an interesting article.

Black Box Trading: Why They All “Blow-Up”

My 2 cents, stay away from algo; do it old fashion way.

Eric
Guest
Eric

Emmett if you’ll notice the statements that were supposed to be posted a week or less after June 11 are still not posted. The weekly blog has not had an update since 5/23 because the news to report is terrible. These kind of things are typical. As for statements, I have my Decemeber statement in front of me which shows my account losing 19,000 or about 40% in one month. If anyone would like a copy please email me.

sam
Guest
sam

I’m using the robot on a free trial on demo with ninja trader. is simulated trading with ninja trader realistic like trading real money?

Erick Strong
Guest
Erick Strong

Sam, did you find out anything about trademastersusa?

sam
Guest
sam

Hi Emmet. There’s a company called trademasters usa who claim they have a robot that averages 48% month and is up over 100% this year with only 8% draw down. Have you heard of them? are they on the list to be scrutinized and reviewed?

Brian Fortin
Guest
Brian Fortin

Have you run those numbers Sam? If they really had a system that averages 48% per month, which would you do?

a) Invest $25k and turn it into $2,761,090.19 in ONE YEAR, or

b) Sell it to some stranger for a few thousand?

Brian Fortin
Guest
Brian Fortin

Too much pizzazz for me. Pretty girls on the chat window, and what’s with the Sandra Bullock look alike? Flashy Chrome and white futuristic robots (set it and forget it, lol), and a lot of hooey. They are posting hypothetical results like they live traded it. I especially liked this description of their “flagship product.” “”TMU” Automatet Trading Robot: Summer 2013 we introduced our flagship TMU trading robot to a small handselected audience. Mainly personal contacts and active traders involved during the process of fine tuning of our software. Since then we hand pick new clients and carefully select who… Read more »

John
Guest
John

Hope you didn’t touch Trademasters USA. http://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr7429-16

Chad S.
Guest

Okay Sam, let me walk through this with you. They claim it averages 48% per month, and it’s up 100% this year…unless I’m missing something that’s about 2 months of trading results; which is not enough trading to pass judgement. And it’s claiming an 8% drawdown; is that a CLOSED trade drawdown? What were the intraday peak-to-valley drawdowns? What was the daily equity float at rollover? Do you understand what I’m getting at? If you don’t then trading may not be for you. In order to be a successful trader or investor, you have to be able to ASK THE… Read more »

Eric
Guest
Eric

Hi Emmett,
I have been a customer for over a year and lost a considerable amount of money on top of the steep licensing fees. I would be happy to share my statements if you would like to see them or would be happy to answer any questions.

M173
Guest
M173

Why not post the statements to your site instead of only sending them to Emmet. Did customer A and customer B both die at the same exact time in November?

Nobody said you were a scam. Your just a terrible investment that no sane person should ever consider making. Even at $10/month your product isn’t a good risk/reward.

Richard
Guest

We are in the process of doing just that. Check back in a week or less, should have all statements posted .
Thanks!
Richard

Bob Gordon
Guest
Bob Gordon

Hey Emmitt I am sure Richard will give you a free license. Invest some real money with his algorithms and report your results it would be great to get your real time feedback on this excellent system! !

RV
Guest
RV

Has it been a week or less yet? Still waiting for you to prove m173 wrong.

-RV

RV
Guest
RV

So Rich,
Trying to understand how a guy so tech savvy cant seem to get these statements up. You are the one that said give me a week or less.
Please make me eat humble pie and show the proof you promised.

-RV

M173
Guest
M173

If he actually posted statements nobody pay him 15k for this garbage anymore. He probably signed up a couple suckers in the last 2 weeks. The guy is a master bullshitter.

J Bird
Guest
J Bird

Kemmett, I recently read your review about AlgorithimicTrading.org and was ready to invest in this system. Three Red Flags that jumped out at me after doing my own follow-up: 1. You mentioned that the cost used to be $5,000 before your review and then went up to $15,000 after your review, is really an issue with me. 2. Two days ago I emailed the company for more info. James got back with me and set up a short webinar that took about 15 minutes. He sounded very young and was uneducated as to their system and very naive as to… Read more »

Richard
Guest

Just checking in here. Honestly, none of this has to be a mystery and most people are misreading our intentions. I have statements and have no problem sending them to Emmet, Both for the ES/TY and NQ Legacy package. I’ll shoot you an email. Trading involves risk as everyone knows. We put a billion disclaimers all of our website and in our sales order. With regard to recent results, the NQ legacy has actually hung in there fairly well but the ES is in a drawdown. Does that mean that algos are broken? Of course not (since drawdowns are part… Read more »

Sam
Guest
Sam

It’s been over a week Richard. No statements on website or here. I think it’s time to shut the business . Guess this is showing your true intentions of deception.

RV
Guest
RV

Emmet,
Out of curiosity, did he ever send those statements to you.?
Rich why haven’t you put up those statemnts on your site like you said you would?
Emmet, I really sense these guys just want us to go away. Have you ever done a rewrite from favorable to non favorable? Why has he not shown the statements? Or perhaps he did to you?

-RV

Richard
Guest

Update: Since i posted this comment back on June 10, the algos turned around as expected. July, August and now September are up quite a bit in both the ES and NQ packages.

Richard
Guest

Update (2/20/16): I was reviewing some of the older comments and noticed this one that i had back in June 2015, check out the time stamp to see for yourself : “… does that mean now is a good time to get in, probably but everyone needs to make that call on their own. While we can’t guarantee anything, we do feel that we will see a strong run very soon. In the past, every year we typically have 2-4 months that make up for the majority of our gains (streaks of +50% in 2 months, followed by a down… Read more »

Sam
Guest
Sam

I agree with M173, you should have done a better job in research. One: you should have viewed their lived trade room for at least 3 months. You would have noticed that they started with a live account with $68K which drew down to $49K. Shortly after they switched to a simulated account of $1M that drew down to $990K. Clearly this shows they are not willing to trade their own account with live money. Two: you should have viewed the multiple negative complaints on Stockgumshoes as well as Reddit. I won’t deny that their system did work half way… Read more »

M173
Guest
M173

Drawdown is more like 60% since dec 2014, hence the reason the customer statement end there. Mike is lying to you and this barb person at fox group is just bullshitting you.

I hope for your sake you haven’t actually signed up for this crap.

I suggest you take down this 4.7 star review. You may indirectly cause a lot of financial pain to people.

RV
Guest
RV

M173,
I feel your pain. why not just remove the personal info from your statements and put an end to this once and for all? The easiest solution by far.

-RV

M173
Guest
M173

I’m not the one being reviewed, algorithmic trading is, why not ask the company to provide statements since they are so open and honest as the review claims. Ask for the Dec 2014 statement, it will show a 40% loss, hence the reason the statements end in Nov 2014. Total losses since November are 60-80%, I did not run this crap that whole time, I ran away in march.

RV
Guest
RV

M173, Well then lets see if Rich from Algorithmic trading will oblige. Rich how about it? I must say it is a bit odd that the statements ended in November 2014 especially now with such an obviously disgruntled customer. Can you please help us put this to rest by producing statements for December. That way we know if M173 was a customer with unrealistic expectations regarding inevitable drawdowns that occur with any system or if his point is valid, By responding you would very likely capture many potential clients that are “sitting on the fence” viewing this increasingly popular website.… Read more »

M173
Guest
M173

I’m sorry but I’m not sure how you did any extensive research at all? A simple google search of the company would have turned up a ton if bad reviews from people losing all there money, they have multiple complaints on rip off report. Its also concerning that you consider the BBB as a legitamte source of reviews. This is one of the biggest rip offs currently available on the internet. I am not even sure how you can call this a review when you never even tried it I did try it and can tell you for a fact… Read more »

Gregory Reid
Guest

Great article, i have been looking into this company for a while and wouls like to know the cost?

sam
Guest
sam

i’ve been following this company for a while and have also been wondering, is this real or not? I’m impressed with intense research you did.!!! The cost is very expensive though, besides for 17k capital, it cost 5k to trade 1 contract in each of their 5 algos. So that’s 22k plus just to start.thanx and good luck!!!

Joe
Guest
Joe

Great review Emmett. The level of digging is most impressive! Must have been nice to write a rare positive review! It’s certainly excellent to read of the lengths Rich Metzger has gone to demonstrate his honesty which immediately gets me interested in the product. One thing left hanging in terms of his transparency on his website is the cost of the system. Is there a reason why you haven’t disclosed the cost in the review? At the very least can you tell us is it a one off payment followed by an annual fee or a monthly lease fee plus… Read more »

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